tirawleybaron

I can't imagine too many will want to see amalgamated counties. You're basing the extra revenue on increased attendances, that won't happen.

For the sport to turn professional it won't be because of extra money generated with the Country it will because of increase TV revenues from overseas. That could years to happen and in fact may never happen.

TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 14/11/2014 13:46:19    1672242

Highking81 "Remember these counties were drawn up at the behest of Norman landlords, not for the benefit of Irish sports."
That may be so Highking81 but the geographical division of the Island into counties has served and continues to serve the GAA very well in terms of rivalry and pride in the county etc.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2991 - 14/11/2014 14:19:45    1672270

i still cannot see why people would want it to go professional?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/11/2014 14:29:31    1672280

lilywhite1 - but has it served the GAA well in terms of games development and promotion? Does it serve the players and fans well in terms of fairness?

What has the intercounty system done for hurling? Worst case scenarios include small but passionate GAA counties like Laois or Offaly where the numbers are never going to exist for competitive teams in both codes. Who benefits from this? Championship 2014 was a joke that only lit up during the semi-final stage.

One option would be to play off the 'intercounty championship' as the junior All-Ireland with the strong counties fielding second teams. The senior All-Ireland would consist of the 14 strongest footballing counties along with 8 town teams that could draw players from the surrounding counties. So, for example we could have a Limerick city based team drawing footballers from Clare and Limerick, with their respective county teams continuing to specialise in hurling.

HighKing81 (Meath) - Posts: 129 - 14/11/2014 14:55:02    1672295

hill

i still cannot see why people would want it to go professional?

If the money was there and it could be distributed fairly, then I don't see why not, professionalism in sport is quite common, but even though I would support professionalism I think we're absolutely miles off it actually happening so there isn't a lot to fear for those opposed to it.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 14/11/2014 15:07:57    1672300

htaem

but do you not enjoy gaa for what it is as we speak?
would you rather support a team called meath/westmeath and cavan combined?
wouldnt the fact that players getting paid reduce the amount of passion they have on the pitch to win for the right reasons.
we have seen the other sports become more about money than the sport itself
the gaa represents all areas in ireland and identfys with every town village city you name it
apart from the sport being so good to watch and play , these are the main reasons it is the biggest amature sport in the world

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/11/2014 15:34:38    1672310

Hill, regional teams does not necessarily mean professionalism. I would fully support the former but not the latter. Plus I don't think there is any need to amalgamate a big county like Meath with anyone else. It was the Football Development Committee that originally suggested amalgamating smaller counties to allow them to compete, it had nothing to do with professionalism and as I've suggested above there might be better alternatives.

HighKing81 (Meath) - Posts: 129 - 14/11/2014 15:44:55    1672314

hill

I love the Gaa as it is, although I love other sports aswell I consider Gaelic Football my favourite, I love Hurling also and I don't have a problem with the Gaa's amateur status. But I think if there was enough money to play the players full time (which there isn't) then given the amount of free time, effort and massive commitment they put in I wouldn't have a problem with them getting paid.

Ps, I wouldn't be a huge fan of amalgamations or transfers or any of that crack, but anyway I'm realistic enough to know that professionalism in Gaa isn't anywhere near viable, not at present anyway and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 14/11/2014 15:55:13    1672316

Hill,of course we all love the GAA and our own counties.But what im trying to do is to give every player a chance of success.Its all well and good with us being from Dublin.Well always have a decent chance of winning things.Huge pick of players and top facilities etc.But put yourself in a Leitrim mans shoes for instance.Of course every Leitrim person is proud of their county just as much as any other county,but realistically the chances of a Leitrim man ever winning an All Ireland is miniscule.Not because of a lack of talent.Im sure theyve the same amount of talented footballers per head of population,as every other county.The problem is the sheer lack of numbers.Where is the equity in that?By sheer luck,or bad luck,of where your born,it determines your chances of success for the rest of your career.I would like to eventually see the likes of Leitrim amalgamate with Roscommon and Longford for example,to create a very competetive side,with enough numbers to challenge for honours.You can point to Leitrims provincial win in the 90s,but does 1 win every 100 years make up for the disparity in resources?

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 14/11/2014 17:02:45    1672343

cuderocket

but you could say the same with any sport in the world
they have montenegro with a poulation of leitrim play france germany or spain
you have chelsea or man city or man utd who have the big money
they dont almagamate small er clubs such as bristol city , chesterfield and so onto match them
you have leinster in rugby they dont almagamate connaught and ulster to compete with their levels.
if you pay players your going to have same scenarios as other sports
where they come from wont matter to them,
as where the biggest money is will matter more and transfers will immediatly follow
which would make it even harder for the so called smaller county to comepete as they wont hold onto players.
i just feel its perfect as it is, the only part of the game i would change is the club championships
i think they need a master ficture list and they need to stick to it,
players playing inter county should not hold up a whole county of club players just to wait for them to come back
club championships should be made go ahead regardless of inter county players availability
we are talking about letting everybody play well the inter county players are already participating with the county
where as club players are left hanging around waiting for them

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/11/2014 19:18:16    1672376

Yes hill,i understand what your saying.I am proposing this idea for the weaker counties.If i was greedy or self centred,as a Dub,i wouldnt care less about the likes of Carlow/Wicklow.But i do.The difference between some of the counties is pathetic.You mention Bristol City not amalgamating with another club as an example.Difference being,if you happen to be a top player from Bristol,you can end up at the likes of Man City etc.If your a top player from Leitrim,chances are youll never win anything.No All Star either.Is this fair?If DJ Carey was born just across the border in Carlow,would we have heard much about him?
I am just putting the idea out there.It may never happen.But im sick of hearing about people whinging about the state of the championship every year when Kerry put 30 points on Waterford or Down put 30 points on Leitrim etc.I love the games as much as anyone.Thats why i would like to see every player have a decent chance of winning something.Just an idea.Nothing more.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 14/11/2014 19:33:57    1672380

cuderocket

but what good does that do for countys if they loose their players ?
your only making the stronger teams have a better pick of players
like we see in rugby at the moment
connaught cannot hold onto any decent players
as leinster and munster just sweep them away

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/11/2014 19:39:29    1672382

Why would counties lose players?I used an amalgamation of Leitrim,Roscommon and Longford as an example of a new Gaa county.They would have more players to pick from.No need for the likes of Dublin or Cork to amalgamate with anyone.Were strong enough as it is.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 14/11/2014 19:46:31    1672385

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 1402

1672385
Why would counties lose players?I used an amalgamation of Leitrim,Roscommon and Longford as an example of a new Gaa county.They would have more players to pick from.No need for the likes of Dublin or Cork to amalgamate with anyone.Were strong enough as it is.

becuase players would go to where the money is best
just like in the other sports once they turn professional

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/11/2014 19:53:02    1672387

On this instance hillIm only talking about amalgamating counties,to give everyone a fair craic of the whip.I would be totally against counties buying up players.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 14/11/2014 20:00:23    1672389

14/11/2014 19:33:57 cuederocket
Yes hill,i understand what your saying.I am proposing this idea for the weaker counties.If i was greedy or self centred,as a Dub,i wouldnt care less about the likes of Carlow/Wicklow.But i do.The difference between some of the counties is pathetic.You mention Bristol City not amalgamating with another club as an example.Difference being,if you happen to be a top player from Bristol,you can end up at the likes of Man City etc.If your a top player from Leitrim,chances are youll never win anything.No All Star either.Is this fair?If DJ Carey was born just across the border in Carlow,would we have heard much about him?
I am just putting the idea out there.It may never happen.But im sick of hearing about people whinging about the state of the championship every year when Kerry put 30 points on Waterford or Down put 30 points on Leitrim etc.I love the games as much as anyone.Thats why i would like to see every player have a decent chance of winning something.Just an idea.Nothing more. +1 especially DJ Carey point.
14/11/2014 19:39:29 hill16no1man
cuderocket but what good does that do for countys if they loose their players ? your only making the stronger teams have a better pick of players like we see in rugby at the moment. connaught cannot hold onto any decent players as leinster and munster just sweep them away The players Munster and Leinster have taken from Connacht originally came from Leinster and Munster. Sean Cronin moved to Connacht from Munster and moved to Leinster from Connacht. Keatley moved to Connacht from Leinster and moved to Munster from Connacht.
14/11/2014 19:46:31 cuederocket
Why would counties lose players?I used an amalgamation of Leitrim,Roscommon and Longford as an example of a new Gaa county.They would have more players to pick from.No need for the likes of Dublin or Cork to amalgamate with anyone.Were strong enough as it is. +1

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 14/11/2014 20:25:09    1672391

14/11/2014 15:34:38 hill16no1man
htaem but do you not enjoy gaa for what it is as we speak?
would you rather support a team called meath/westmeath and cavan combined?
wouldnt the fact that players getting paid reduce the amount of passion they have on the pitch to win for the right reasons.
we have seen the other sports become more about money than the sport itself
the gaa represents all areas in ireland and identfys with every town village city you name it
apart from the sport being so good to watch and play , these are the main reasons it is the biggest amature sport in the world Why cant people look for improvements? How in gods name would players getting paid reduce passion they have on the pitch? How do you measure passion? Why would somebody getting paid to play reduce their passion for winning for their local club and county?
14/11/2014 17:02:45 cuederocket
Hill,of course we all love the GAA and our own counties.But what im trying to do is to give every player a chance of success.Its all well and good with us being from Dublin.Well always have a decent chance of winning things.Huge pick of players and top facilities etc.But put yourself in a Leitrim mans shoes for instance.Of course every Leitrim person is proud of their county just as much as any other county,but realistically the chances of a Leitrim man ever winning an All Ireland is miniscule.Not because of a lack of talent.Im sure theyve the same amount of talented footballers per head of population,as every other county.The problem is the sheer lack of numbers.Where is the equity in that?By sheer luck,or bad luck,of where your born,it determines your chances of success for the rest of your career.I would like to eventually see the likes of Leitrim amalgamate with Roscommon and Longford for example,to create a very competetive side,with enough numbers to challenge for honours.You can point to Leitrims provincial win in the 90s,but does 1 win every 100 years make up for the disparity in resources? excellent post cuederocket.
14/11/2014 19:18:16 hill16no1man
cuderocket but you could say the same with any sport in the world they have montenegro with a poulation of leitrim play france germany or spain you have chelsea or man city or man utd who have the big money they dont almagamate small er clubs such as bristol city, chesterfield and so onto match them you have leinster in rugby they dont almagamate connaught and ulster to compete with their levels. if you pay players your going to have same scenarios as other sports where they come from wont matter to them, as where the biggest money is will matter more and transfers will immediatly follow which would make it even harder for the so called smaller county to comepete as they wont hold onto players. i just feel its perfect as it is, the only part of the game i would change is the club championships i think they need a master ficture list and they need to stick to it, players playing inter county should not hold up a whole county of club players just to wait for them to come back club championships should be made go ahead regardless of inter county players availability we are talking about letting everybody play well the inter county players are already participating with the county
where as club players are left hanging around waiting for them There is large numbers of sports where clubs have amalgamated to make things fairer or make more competitive sides. Rugby its happened in Wales. Ulster never have needed to amalgamate as they've been relatively successful. Same cant be said for many counties in hurling/gaelic

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 14/11/2014 20:26:50    1672392

ormond
The players Munster and Leinster have taken from Connacht originally came from Leinster and Munster. Sean Cronin moved to Connacht from Munster and moved to Leinster from Connacht. Keatley moved to Connacht from Leinster and moved to Munster from Connacht.

so your basicaly proving my point that it becomes a merry go round!!!
no affinity to where you come from

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/11/2014 20:44:05    1672398

ormond
Why cant people look for improvements? How in gods name would players getting paid reduce passion they have on the pitch? How do you measure passion? Why would somebody getting paid to play reduce their passion for winning for their local club and county?

turning professional doesnt mean an improvement!
just look at professional sports they dont care as much when they loose because they still get paid regardless
thats why you would see a reduction in passion.
take rugby for example they dont even bother to play for their clubs now because they dont get paid

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/11/2014 20:46:27    1672399

ormond
There is large numbers of sports where clubs have amalgamated to make things fairer or make more competitive sides. Rugby its happened in Wales. Ulster never have needed to amalgamate as they've been relatively successful. Same cant be said for many counties in hurling/gaelic


rugby had to because they hadnt the money or support base to support the professional approach not to make it fairer.
connaught have never been remotly successfull and never will be the way the provinces operate but you wont see an amalgamation there for fairness or competition purposes

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 14/11/2014 20:50:31    1672402