Yes lads,even as an outsider,it was hard to watch and listen to some of the carry on by those involved in the strikes.Something that serious,and vitriolic,was never going to end without some long term damage caused.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/11/2014 16:48:02    1672059

HAs everyone forgotten that Wexford went under to Limerick by a landslide. HAve ye forgotten that tipp drew with kilkenny. If you compare beating Clare and waterford to beating tipp in thurles then you must be looking through Cork glasses.

As for Limerick we definitely have players coming through but I dont think we have the killer instinct. If you look at limerick pages we are too sofft on players and we make too many allowances. To win the big one it takes ruthless ness Im not sure we have it. I partiularly doubt we have it at supporter or at management level.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 13/11/2014 17:06:37    1672070

disillusiondfan
County: Limerick
Posts: 3251

1672070
HAs everyone forgotten that Wexford went under to Limerick by a landslide. HAve ye forgotten that tipp drew with kilkenny. If you compare beating Clare and waterford to beating tipp in thurles then you must be looking through Cork glasses.

Not forgotten that at all. Have you forgotten that Cork then beat Limerick (who beat Tipp as you point out) who were then hammered by Tipp who then lost Kilkenny (as well as drawing with them). Not looking through Cork glasses at all, just not engaging in circular logic.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 13/11/2014 20:22:09    1672126

I dont get your logic Benny. Clare were very poor this year as was proved by the fact that an average Wexford team beat them over two games. Trying to say that Wexford were good this year just doesnt wash. Wexford were average and Clare couldnt beat them waterford were poor therefore it was a poor Munster c ship in my view

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 13/11/2014 21:07:32    1672145

I think Benny's logic is that you can't judge from game to game. Every game is on it's own merit and you only play what's in front of you. If Wexford beat Clare and were subsequently hammered by Limerick would this mean that Limerick would have hammered Clare if they met in the quarters. Also Tipperary drew with Kilkenny so Limerick must be better than KK because they beat Tipp in an earlier round. Tipp hammered Cork this year and Limerick beat tipp so Limerick should also hammer Cork.

Sorry for the long ramble but my point is there is no logic to the games. Every game is different and takes on a life of it's own.
If Cork are as bad as some are saying (And we are by no means anywhere near as good as previous Cork Teams) it has to be a good thing that we won 3 ganes in Munster. Also they are a lot better than they showed against Tipp but would not get up to the standard that was evident in the drawn AI Final.

Cornerback1977 (Cork) - Posts: 67 - 14/11/2014 10:36:58    1672179

I agree cornerback.Every game is different.There were valid reasons why Clare were a little off the pace last year.It was never going to be easy for such a young team winning a senior All Ireland,to be in tip top shape the following year.Even mentally,all the celebration sand county wide medal presentations etc would have taken a lot out of these young men.I have Clare as 2nd favourites for this years All Ireland.Well rested.No distractions.Proven winners.The real deal.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 14/11/2014 11:04:44    1672185

Thank you Cornerback.

That is exactly it. You cannot say the All-Ireland champions are poor because Wexford beat them and they subsequently lost a game heavily. This can only be logical if every game follows a similar pattern. As you and I have pointed out, it doesn't.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 14/11/2014 11:09:49    1672187

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/midleton-csb-dean-ryan-cup-1780780-Nov2014/?utm_source=twitter_self

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 14/11/2014 21:53:01    1672419

Ah lads ye are really ignoring the obvious. Of course every game takes on a life of its own. Of course you cant say we would beat kk because tipp drew with them (really ridiculous to suggest I even implied that). It doesnt even hold that we would have beaten tipp the sunday after we beat them or indeed that Cork would have beaten us the sunday after the munster final.

None of this is my point. My point is that this was a poor munster c ship. Waterford are rebuilding and were v poor against Cork and wexford. Clare were v poor this year and to talk about beating the All Ireland champs is completely misleading. They were no where near the level of 2013 in 2014. I predicted Cork would beat Clare pulling up and I said before wexford game that it would be close and that I would have backed Wexford if the game was on in Wexford or Thurles. No matter what anyone says there was a gulf between wexford and any of the top 4 teams this year and for them to beat clare over 2 games tells us that there was a gulf between Clare and the top 4 this year. It is a gulf that I was mocked for predicting at the start of the year.

The Munster final in itself was of poor enough quality as well. Remember Limerick owned the ball in the first 20 mins and couldnt score? Thats not typical munster c ship hurling. Cork were deserving winners on the day. I am a big fan of Cork hurling and Cork fans. I dont say they are a poor team although I do think they are missing players.

I just say that this years Munster c ship was not a good one with only one game (for me) worthy of the title a true Munster c ship match

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 15/11/2014 08:04:28    1672425

You are right about the Munster final. That was a very poor game. I have said that over and over again. Limerick could not hit a barn door that day and almost allowed Cork to win.

However, I am not going to agree with you on Clare. It is too easy for you to say that in hindsight. In 2013 they were All-Ireland champions so anything less may make them 'poor'. However if you analyse their form up to the point that Cork played them in June; you'll see it was better than 2013. In 2013 they were involved in a relegation dog playoff against us, this year they were in the league semi-final, add in that they would have had the confidence of being All-Ireland champions and they had back to back under 21s won, they would have been flying coming in to the Cork game. Cork beat them and deserved to. I am not bigging up Cork at all. I agree we are missing several players to make us likely All-Ireland winners. However, we are still capable of the odd good performance- against Clare we gave one. It was our best of the year and we beat a very good team that were determined to win.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 15/11/2014 11:07:14    1672432

Bennybunny I am not saying Clare were poor in hindsight I said it before a ball was hit in the c ship. They won the softest Ai in 10 years and they won it playing to a system that was never gong to work 2 years in a row. I was certain last year that Clare would be alao rans and I said it well before the c ship started. It was very obvious to me and to anyone who analysed what happened in 13 that Clare were not going to be a force in 14. They will be better in 15 but Im not sure they will be better by much.

As for comparing league form it counts for nothing when c ship time comes. W.e ran KK to 2 pts and couldnt beat Offaly in the league. Clare were hyped up by the media and were never as good as we were told. If they get a new manager they may well be a force in the years to come but never in 14 I rated then 6th or 7th at start of last year and they are prob 5th or 6th now. Clare were never ever going to beat Cork this year and they would have struggled against a v bad waterford if Waterford had caught Cork the first day.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 15/11/2014 11:28:29    1672438

Fair enough. That is your opinion.

I don't believe there is any such thing as a soft All-Ireland. They won it because they were the best team that year. Given how good their underage teams are, it was not a massive surprise.

Waterford are not all that bad either.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 15/11/2014 11:48:18    1672441

There is no such thing as a soft AI. There is however such a thing as the softest AI in 10 years.

As for Waterford they would not rank in top 7 teams in Ireland this year so citing beating either of them as an achievement doesnt hold water.

I think it is a pity but the munster c ship is totally devalued by the fact that no one is really bothered about winning it based on performance in AI semi of last 3 years. I went to Cork this year certain we were better than Cork and I left feeling that if we met Cork again we would beat them but I should have left feeling disappointed that we didnt win Munster and I didnt.

They really need to do something about c ship structure. In its current format they have devalued the second most important competition for Munster teams.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 15/11/2014 12:11:08    1672443

disillusiondfan
County: Limerick
Posts: 3257

1672443
There is no such thing as a soft AI. There is however such a thing as the softest AI in 10 years.

If you say there is no such thing as a soft All-Ireland, then you can not have gradations of softness such as softer or softest either.

As far the rest of your post, all I said Waterford are not a bad side. If you want to rank them outside the 'top 7' then more power to you. The top 1 is all that counts.

I agree with your sentiments about not being disappointed about losing the Munster final. I had a bit of row (drink was had) on the Sunday evening with a well knowm referee who was saying how great it was that Cork had won the Munster. I was none to bothered and told him so. It seemed to ruin his buzz a little bit. To me getting out of 1B was the highlight of the year.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 15/11/2014 14:28:32    1672455

Not true Bunny if it the softest in 10 years then it doesnt mean it was soft it means it was the easiest won.

Semantics seem to be your stock in trade but is there really a difference between least hard and softest? Do we need to resort to a dictionary or do we require the services of an english lecturer before you will opt to leave aside the pedantics.

As for disputing that Waterford are at best 7th then maybe you will tell me which one of the following they would surpass. Kilkenny, Tipperary, Limerick Cork Wexford Clare Dublin or Galway.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 15/11/2014 15:14:44    1672463

disllusiod would ya stop.
2013 was one of the most difficult all Irelands ever won due to the amount of potential challengers.
No one gave clare a chance at the start of they year so I dont see how their all Ireland win could be described as soft.
They were absolutely brilliant.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 15/11/2014 15:55:08    1672468

disillusiondfan
County: Limerick
Posts: 3259

1672463
Not true Bunny if it the softest in 10 years then it doesnt mean it was soft it means it was the easiest won.

Semantics seem to be your stock in trade but is there really a difference between least hard and softest? Do we need to resort to a dictionary or do we require the services of an english lecturer before you will opt to leave aside the pedantics.

As for disputing that Waterford are at best 7th then maybe you will tell me which one of the following they would surpass. Kilkenny, Tipperary, Limerick Cork Wexford Clare Dublin or Galway.

Semantics is a tool to be used when dealing with a lack of logic. You don't get it. Read with JonCarter says. He sums it up nicely.

I am not disputing Waterford are the 7th best. Its an irrelevance. I do not think they will win the All-Ireland next year but I would give them a chance of beating any of teams you mention.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 16/11/2014 14:11:22    1672594

No benny semantics are what you resort to when you dont have anything better to offer. Arguing over whether somethiing is softest or least hard being a case in point.

Nothing that has been said so far in any way disputes the fact that this years Munster c ship was not a particulalry good one. I dont agree with Jon carters point but in any event their performance last year is immaterial so I wont resort to semantics just to say whatever about their form in 13 it was poor in 14

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 16/11/2014 16:56:30    1672618