Frees go leór missed cost Cork the win in the 2003 final against Kilkenny. The team played like nervous kittens. Persistent short puck-outs by Dónal Óg in the 2006 final when Kilkenny had his plan sussed out from the start cost Corcaigh dearly. I could never imagine Brian Cody tolerating that. To me they were two finals Cork could and should have won.
Dare I predict that Cork will win the All Ireland Minor Hurling next year. I am no fan of development squads that have been the norm for potential inter county minor players in so many counties for a good number of years. I suspect in Cork they are of the same mind but had no choice as pressure grew to start winning at under-age. So for three or four years Cork are doing catch uo and doing well now at Harty Cup and at Under 17.
It is not similar to the 90s when Clare were way ahead of everyone else in fitness and helped by a teak tough back-line they won two All Irelands. I suggest if fitness levels for the leading counties at the time were on a even level for all, the Clare forwards, with the exception of Jamsie and maybe one other, had not the scoring power to get them across the line.

ballagoballa (UK) - Posts: 49 - 11/11/2014 09:27:57    1671296

Perfect10 - if you read my posts I make it very clear that the suggestion of Cork being "soft" is coming from Cork followers, not me. If you want to drag Galway into the discussion well then start a new topic and I'll gladly contribute.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 11/11/2014 09:42:12    1671299

Dare I predict that Cork will win the All Ireland Minor Hurling next year. I am no fan of development squads that have been the norm for potential inter county minor players in so many counties for a good number of years. I suspect in Cork they are of the same mind but had no choice as pressure grew to start winning at under-age. So for three or four years Cork are doing catch uo and doing well now at Harty Cup and at Under 17.

A minor All-Ireland is very hard to predict. We might win next year or it could be 10 more years. The 'problem' of us not winning underage has been blown out of all proportion. Fair enough, we don't win the headline minor and under 21s but at under 17, under 14 (Tony Forristal), under 15/16 blitzes, our teams are as good as any and we frequently win. As somebody else said, hurling is super-popular. It is the number 1 - there are loads of youngfellas on the street playing. There is no lack of skill in the players that we have either. Our issues is that (as the original poster alluded too)we are not physical enough at the top level and there is some apathy and disorganisation at some levels. If we can iron out what issues we have and if we start to win, we have plenty of resources to get back to the top.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 11/11/2014 10:31:24    1671314

Thats what i fear benny boy(:

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 11/11/2014 11:51:32    1671353

I agree. I've said it before - there's no point in us playing one game, whilst everybody else has moved on to another. Cork refs take a more literal interpretation of the rules than in other counties. Whilst I prefer a game reffed strictly, and left to flow accordingly, the trend is to let it flow any old way at all. Cork have to come up to speed on that - and it has to happen for young and old within the county.

Have to disagree with you on winning underage Benny. I think you can't do it too often. It's not about being competitive, it's about winning. 50 % of inter-county bhurling takes place between the two lines, the other 50% between the two ears. The team that's used to winning, will always have an advantage. That habit is formed at underage.

Look back to when Cork were kings. Was that because we were better than everybody else - or because both we, and they, thought we were? In the 70s and 80s we often beat teams like Limerick and Clare before the ball was even thrwon in. They were often very good hurlers, maybe even as good as our lads. But our lads were convinced we'd win, where they weren't.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 799 - 11/11/2014 20:03:59    1671589

Have to disagree with you on winning underage Benny. I think you can't do it too often. It's not about being competitive, it's about winning. 50 % of inter-county bhurling takes place between the two lines, the other 50% between the two ears. The team that's used to winning, will always have an advantage. That habit is formed at underage.

Look back to when Cork were kings. Was that because we were better than everybody else - or because both we, and they, thought we were? In the 70s and 80s we often beat teams like Limerick and Clare before the ball was even thrwon in. They were often very good hurlers, maybe even as good as our lads. But our lads were convinced we'd win, where they weren't.

I do not disagree with any of the above. My point was we are competitive and do win at under 14,15,17 etc. We still believe we can win. For some reason, we cannot seem to turn those wins into minor wins. It makes it look like we are completely gone and hurling is dead here. That is not true.

You are right, we have to catch up with the rest in terms of how we play. We need our best coaches in the right jobs. That is a big sticking point at the moment.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 11/11/2014 20:28:53    1671601

The general consensus appears to be that refereeing and coaching are problematic. Surely both can be fixed. I previously mentioned all the great Cork coaches either managing other county teams or with high profiles in the media. Is it not time to bring them all back home? Obviously cost could be an issue. Regarding refereeing - as was mentioned, Cork appear to want hurling played/reffed their way. Unfortunately, for them, the rest of the hurling world are playing to a different tune. Only Cork themselves can fix it.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 11/11/2014 21:25:11    1671628

The way officials referee games in Cork is surely only a miniscule reason why Cork are where they are.If it is a reason at all.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 11/11/2014 21:46:38    1671637

disillusiondfan
County: Limerick
Posts: 3243

1671247 I'm sorry corner back but cork did not win a competitive Munster. Waterford n Clare were v poor this year. Limerick then had a five week lay off which TJ Ryan admitted was new to him n he got iwrong. It was the same five week break that posed issues for cork against tipp. If Clare Dublin n Galway return to where they CAN be then Cork are prob not a top 5 team based on 2014. Mind u resolving dual player issue might improve things but for me cork lack players

Disillusioned Fan. As I said earlier we appreciate all your concern down here but it is only a matter of time before normal order is restored and we are back at the top. There is always hurlers in Cork and always will be - fact, You only need to look through the clubs (100 kids training last Sunday morning in my local club) to see that In fact a lot of clubs like Clonakilty for example are developing hurlers now and that was traditionally a football strong-hold.I disagree with your point on Munster. Cork won a good Munster this year beating all but one Munster Team (including beating the AI Champs with some of the most exciting talent there is) and improved in their games along the way until the Tipp game of course and I would be confident they will improve again next year. Lets not forget if it wasn't for a ridiculous sending off last year we might have back to back Munster titles. Cork had a decent minor Team last year and it took Waterford the AI Champs to extra time to beat them so it's not as if we are getting hammered.

I also don't take your point on Dublin and Galway. Clare are a real strong team with excellent talent with serious pedigree who have shown they have no fear of going and winning Liam and should and probably take at least 2 more titles and I would put them in Top 3. Dublin are stuck in neutral and are in a worse off situation than Cork with regards the dual players as they all seem to choose Football. Limerick and Galway seem to come with a bit of a run every few years and take a big scalp or two before they regress.Limerick in particular seem to be glad with the big heroic loss. If they really had it in them this year could have went and beat KK but let it slip when it was win the match time.

All said and back to the original point our standard and structures are a bit dated at present and need fixing but their is too many people in Cork that are very passionate about hurling to let us slip. I'd be confident going forward of being 1st in the Roll of Honour again only to have an ongoing battle with KK to stay there !

Cornerback1977 (Cork) - Posts: 67 - 11/11/2014 21:50:12    1671639

How can you look for credit in beating Clare when you see what Wexford did to them?

I still say it was a poor Munster c ship this year. As for las tyear I would ask you to read the post after last years Munster final apart form a few Clare fans no one was saying waht you were saying about the sending off. Limerick were far better than Cork last year. If you want to deal in coulda beens look at the amount of steps Harnedy took before scoring the deciding score of this years game. My mentioning that is just a pointless as oyu mentioning the sending off. Results of both games stand.

All your other points might be valid but are nothing to do with my post

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 12/11/2014 16:08:21    1671781

Cork can physically mix it with the best when they want to. The problem is they don't do it often enough. I would be more inclined to blame coaching for this. Winning one game won't win you anything and Cork appear unable to keep up the standard required over enough games. Someone has got to put into their collective heads that you must work like a dog to win an All-Ireland. Kilkenny do it.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 12/11/2014 20:27:24    1671854

disillusiondfan
County: Limerick
Posts: 3247

1671781
How can you look for credit in beating Clare when you see what Wexford did to them?

Why are you having a go at Wexford?

Games are to be taken on merit. Cork gave their best performance of the year and beat the All-Ireland champions.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 12/11/2014 20:50:36    1671868

Benny not having a go at Wexford. if we talking about merit. Wexford beat Clare over 2 games home and away. Now we all want to see Wexford progress but if my friend calls Clare a significant scalp then I think it is obvious that they werent up to much this year.

IMO Waterford and Clare were v poor this year. I cannot agree that this years munster championship was a tough championship. IMO only one game could rank as proper Munster c ship fare and Cork were not involved in it.

I dont believe Cork are particularly soft I just think they are short a few players.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 12/11/2014 21:15:09    1671876

Why is the glass not half-full though?

Clare were All-Ireland champions in 2013. They do not become a bad team overnight. There is nothing between Tipp (this year's All-ireland finalists) and Clare. Clare went on to win the under 21 All-Ireland as well with two or three of their senior players. WExford beating them didn't come out of the blue either. Wexford have very strong underage sides and have been building. Their victory was a measure of their progress rather than Clare's decline (in my opinion).

I happen to agree with you about the Munster championship. The games this year were of a really tame standard. You did not want to include Limerick and Tipp in that. If you want to believe that was somehow a better game than the rest (in terms of championship pace and intensity), so be it.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 13/11/2014 10:22:47    1671915

Cork for such a big county and all their talk should be a lot better. They won't be realistic contenders for the all-Ireland in either code in 2015.

Turndownforwhat (Galway) - Posts: 53 - 13/11/2014 14:13:58    1671984

Cork men,i know ive said this before,but from the outside looking in,i feel the strikes,more than any other factor,damaged ye and set ye back 5-10 years.The affects of which,and recriminations,that can be felt to this day.For me ye are just turning the corner now and will be a force over the next few years.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/11/2014 14:26:45    1671992

Back to the original topic Cork do have a bit of work to do to bring the standard up to the top level. A lot of other counties are ahead at the present moment in time in terms of underage teams but then again has it ever been any different before. A lot of other counties like Clare, Limerick, Waterford & even Offaly seem to come in spurts with very good individual Teams whereas the likes of Cork maintain a steady flow of hurlers and are never that far off anyone at underage level. Tipperary are similar whereas Kilkenny are the benchmark.

I don't think Cork are going to fall away as some commentators say.
Disillusioned Fan you have some very valid points but I think you are looking at everything through Limerick glasses as I do probably with Cork. Limerick were not away better than Cork last year. The game was very even until the sending off (I still believe it was your day and would have won in a tight finish). Clare did not become a bad team overnight and Cork played some top class hurling in that game to beat them. Clare have an exceptionally talented team and will take serious beating again next year. The Tipp Lmk game was by no means in a different league to all the other games in Munster this year. Apart from the Cork Waterford replay every game was of a similar standard.

Out of interest genuinely what are your views on where Limerick currently are. They seem to have excellent work done at schools levels but what is holding them back from landing a major All Ireland.

Cornerback1977 (Cork) - Posts: 67 - 13/11/2014 14:43:02    1671995

Turndownforwhat
County: Galway
Posts: 26

1671984
Cork for such a big county and all their talk should be a lot better. They won't be realistic contenders for the all-Ireland in either code in 2015.

We should be better. You are right there.

What talk? We are far from talking ourselves up.

We will be contending in 2015 and every other year. What you mean to say is, in reality, we won't be the winners in 2015 in either code. That is fair enough. Most can accept that. We will be trying to win both though. If we were not we might as well pull out now.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 13/11/2014 15:06:31    1672006

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 1383

1671992
Cork men,i know ive said this before,but from the outside looking in,i feel the strikes,more than any other factor,damaged ye and set ye back 5-10 years.The affects of which,and recriminations,that can be felt to this day.For me ye are just turning the corner now and will be a force over the next few years.

I agree. It was not pleasant. It became farcical and definitely did not help preparations. When one sees some of the appointments though, you do wonder if things are getting better or not (John Cleary - successful under 21 coach for years - pulls out of the race for senior football manager 48 hours before Cuthbert is appointed? )

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 13/11/2014 15:12:05    1672009

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 1383

1671992 Cork men,i know ive said this before,but from the outside looking in,i feel the strikes,more than any other factor,damaged ye and set ye back 5-10 years.The affects of which,and recriminations,that can be felt to this day.For me ye are just turning the corner now and will be a force over the next few years.



Good points. Whatever about the rights and wrongs of the strikes too much energy was expended on them that wasn't used elsewhere to better effect.

Cornerback1977 (Cork) - Posts: 67 - 13/11/2014 15:36:07    1672020