killarney87 I respect your opinion as always but totally disagree with you,firstly as hurlingexpert said its not over one year and as my fellow countyman bennybunny said that score in the final minute against clare last year is what horgan brings to the table the man is sheer class and has done this many times and is certainly more than a freetaker yes im biased but I stand by it he is the maestro imo,as for nash Killarney its all about opinions but imo NONE STAND IS EQUAL,im sure its a debatable point but this is what hs is for a good oul debate

blackrockeddie (Cork) - Posts: 160 - 31/10/2014 17:39:51    1668724

On mature recollection I have revised my previous post and my team is now the following:

Taking into account proven ability, 2014 performances and age.

1. Eoin Murphy
2. Paul Murphy
3. David McInerney
4. Seamus Hickey
5. Padraic Maher (His best position by far. Tipp just can't afford to play him there.)
6. Liam Rushe
7. Kevin Moran
8. Richie Hogan
9. Tony Kelly
10. Bubbles O' Dwyer
11. Bonner Maher
12. Tj Reid
13. Joe Canning
14. Seamus Callanan
15. Conor McGrath

Hurling1Guru1 (Galway) - Posts: 244 - 31/10/2014 17:55:06    1668731

If we are talking about the last few years then how does hickey make it before Tyrell? Callinan was v average in both games in 2013 surely Power has had a better 3 years at 14 or at least in f forward line.

Id say we have all fallen into the trap of using this year as our base year.

As for Tony Kelly at 11 back in march most on here thought that trick was past its sell by date. He is a midfielder in my view. Hexpert is right that v few teams have 3 good ball winners but it is vital to have 3 that can contest a dropping ball and it is not in kellys armoury in my view

Consdering Shefflin almost singelhandedly drew 2012 final against Galway should he not be included?

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 31/10/2014 18:18:01    1668737

Apart from the names mentioned and considering it's not just this year I'd have to put on my Dublin goggles and throw Danny Sutcliffe's name in the pot aswell.Of course Dublin didn't perform this year but Sutcliffe is a top class half forward.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 31/10/2014 19:00:33    1668747

ya i suppose in a way without even knowing i was doing it i have used this year as some sort of base. but of the players that didnt perform to their best that i have in my team - there is no reason that they cant be better than ever next year. so in therms of hickey and tyrell, tyrell obviously has been better over the last number of years but i think that hickey is now a better player. and going forward i think he will be - i suppose that is the key point i am trying to make.
callinan proved every game this year that he is now one of the very best forwards in the country although he may not have been at that level over the last few years. contrasting this with shefflin he has not been at that level since 2012 as you say and will never get back there again, hence his exclusion.

on tony kelly - df in the team you selected above you chose bubbles o'dwyer in the half forward line and he is no better than kelly under puckouts or at contesting dropping balls as you say. by the way im sure you will remember tony kelly catching a puckout over paudie o'brien and scoring a point directly from it - here is proof http://www.sportsfile.com/id/784206/ so while he is not a prolific ball winner he certainly can contest them.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 31/10/2014 19:08:51    1668749

Will someone put a year on it, can we agree from 2010 onwards ? Icehonesty in regards Noel McGrath you are spot on and way ahead of alot of people in Tipp thinking he will be our best 6 we ever had. Now if only they would just try him there.

therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 31/10/2014 20:20:09    1668756

You need a strong man with a bit of presence to be a top centre back.Noel McGrath does not fit the bill for me.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 31/10/2014 20:47:52    1668760

realtmo
the thing is its not about picking a definite year, as i just said in my last post the key thing in selecting this team is: of the players that didnt perform to their best this year - there is no reason that they cant be better than ever next year. every player will have a below par year at some stage we all know that but that does not make them a bad player as they will be capable of getting back to their best the following year.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 31/10/2014 21:06:57    1668762

Dowling not at a high skill level. Did you see the lay off to Breen for the first goal against Wexford or the equally defense splitting pass to Mulcahy which opened the KK defense, although Mulcahy did not finish it but gave one pass too many to Tobin, who only got a point. Those passes when under intense pressure were definitely right out of the top drawer.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 31/10/2014 21:52:09    1668777

On Callanin he was excellent in all games bar the limerick one where Richie Mac was well in control. How then can we pick anyone at 3 other than the man who won an all star at 3 laast year and who was the only 3 to put sgackles on Callinan this year.

Hexpert Buubles O Dwyer must have average 4 points from play each game this year for me he is a far better half forward option thatn kelly. For me Kelly is a sweet hurler but got found out this year. I would have bubbles every day of the week before him

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 01/11/2014 12:37:57    1668820

oldtourman we know dowling is a very good hurler, but he is not as good as the other forwards that have been mentioned. he is not the quickest and is not quiet up to standard with his striking from his right side.
df i didnt just picked anyone ahead of mccarth i picked jj delaney, as he has just had another great season, has numerous all stars including this year at full back and he is so important to kilkenny they might not have won the all ireland without him as there is no other proven candidates who could play full back. as i did say it was probably one of the closest calls on the team. i respect your choice of picking mccarthy ahead of him but i am still happy that i made the correct decision. also i know he got the all star for his full back performances but he was given the number 2 jersey on that team.
with regards to bubbles i am huge fan of him and acknowledge that he is a great talent. but i would have kelly ahead of him. you would prefer to have bubble and that is your opinion so i cant argue with it. bubbles will be a marked man next year though just as kelly was this year.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 01/11/2014 14:20:14    1668829

Bubbles was a marked man this year. Dont forget he got 5 points against limerick in his first game. any manager who didnt have him down for special attention after that doesnt deserve his job.

As for McCarthy v Delaney it just depends when you picking from. If u going back 5 years then Delaney wins easily if u going back 2 then Richie wins for me.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 02/11/2014 11:30:07    1668975

I'm waiting for McCarty to be found out the last two years and he hasn't so be far to him he is becoming one of the best fullbacks in the last few years. Next year will be a massive year for him and also has to be said McCarthy is playing with two very average wing backs in front of him which makes his job harder again.

therealtmo (Tipperary) - Posts: 1292 - 02/11/2014 14:22:53    1668999

i think its harsh to say the wing backs are weak. i think they are two very good hurlers, in my own opinion i would say that i do not consider wayne mcnamara to be up to the standard that an intercounty center back should be.

hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 02/11/2014 16:23:38    1669029

ceuderocket You need a strong man with a bit of presence to be a top centre back.Noel McGrath does not fit the bill for me.

Like Jim Cashman or Liam Dunne? Ridiculous statement.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 02/11/2014 17:36:23    1669049

Im with realtmo our 5 and 7 were not up to scratch this year. They were disappointing against tipp and certainly they cost us the Munster final. They have a good record before this year but certainly need to improve a lot if they are to hold their places next year. Wayne is not a great 6 but if you look around apart from Rush there is no stand out 6 anywhere

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 02/11/2014 17:39:56    1669050

I think the idea of Noel McGrath at centre back for Tipperary is ridiculous.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 02/11/2014 18:18:15    1669069

Both of the players you mentioned had a certain presence about them.Liam Dunne was a ferocious tackler,great man marker who was as tough as nails.Very few got the better of him.Noel McGrath is a skillfull hurler with beautiful wrists,who picks up a lot of loose ball and regularly knocks over a few points.He is not a tough hurler,or the type of dominant hurler every top team needs at centre back.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 02/11/2014 18:24:47    1669071

Icehonesty if you think McGrath would make a good no. 6 then that is an opinion and we are all entitled to our opinions but to pick him as the best 6 of the last few years when he hasnt played there makes no sense. I personally am with cue on this one. I doubt McGrath has the steel as for Liam Dunne he would absolutely ate McGrath without salt and Jim Cashman was no shrinking violet either. I would personally love to see McGrath at 6 for tipp when hopefully we meet them in next years semi.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 02/11/2014 18:35:46    1669099

The people playing centre back right now are a long way behind what has been there over the last 15 years. Ciaran Carey, Seanie McMahon, Peter Barry, Liam Dunne, Declan Ruth, Fergal Hartley, Brian Corcoran, Ronan Curran, Ken McGrath were all great hurlers. The players at centre-back this year- Mark Ellis, Eoin Moore, Brian Hogan, Conor Ryan, Daithi Burke, Kevin Brady, Wayne McNamara, Brick Walsh - they're all very similar and apart from Brick Walsh who reads a game really well and plays great without ever really striking much ball, and Conor Ryan who is young but I think will develop, apart from those two the centre-backs in the game are very similar and very limited.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 02/11/2014 19:30:21    1669123