jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 13125

1666856
wfkerry
County: USA
Posts: 724

1666809
Would Mayo have done better in those finals if Mort was in the team
I totally agree with him about Horan bad decision making cost them

I have no doubt about it

He would have scored 2-5 points a game

He has always been a thorn in Dublin's side

Mayo were screaming out for natural forwards and for me...

Horan cast probably his most natural forward out of the squad while he was in his prime

Horan's bullish, no nonsense approach was understandable but without question

It cost Mayo in the case of Mortimer.

Daft, Horan failed. Simple as that...

Jim,

1) Just because you may have been a thorn in Dublin's side over the years doesn't entitle you to special status, especially when the Dublin teams in question weren't exactly special themselves
2) Horan didn't cast Mortimer aside, he done that all by himself and I didn't see many tears rolling down Mayo faces when he did
3) To say Horan failed is disingenuous, ridiculous and ignorant of facts. He raised Mayo considerably, made them contenders, and can be considered exceptionally unlucky, jinxed, cursed or whatever, that he didn't cross the finish line, saying he "failed" is just an unfair comment.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 24/10/2014 18:44:48    1666969

Horan for me comes in for a hell of a lot of unfair criticisim. I listene to his interview 2 weeks ago on OFF THE BALL and i thought he came across as very geniune ,a guy who just loves the game and coaching . Looking back he definetly got decisions wrong in games , no different to mc Guinness, Gavin and Fitzmaurice. but he was also very unlucky and didnt get the rub of the green that other managers did. He is coaching his daughters team at the moment because as he says himself he got collared for it.
He definetly brought Mayo up a notch and had them as consistant challengers for Sam . The fortunes of the new management team might decide how he is remembered.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 24/10/2014 21:41:11    1667015

Roundball, one of the tactical mistakes he (James Horan) made in the 2013 all Ireland versus Dublin, was the substitution of Seamus O'Shea. Seamus was the best midfielder on show that day and was taking it to the POTY elect (MD McCauley). Yeah, Aidan O'Shea wasn't having his better match, but that was down to Stephen Cluxton's ability to kick out away from him. In my opinion, if James Horan wanted to keep Aidan O'Shea on the pitch and still bring in Barry Moran, the move should have been as follows: move Aidan O'Shea to full forward ( where Rory O'Carroll was concussed if you remember) and bring Barry Moran in to midfield, removing Michael Conway, who was more or less anonymous since his first half introduction for Alan Freeman. Freeman's substitution, even though explained why it took place afterwards, is still very questionable, in my opinion. He was running O'Carroll around; who seemed lost as to what to do. Also, the move of Keith Higgins into defence hindered the fluidness of the Mayo attack. He was asking serious questions of Ger Brennan. Probably, should have brought on Feeney.

David (Meath) - Posts: 567 - 25/10/2014 11:42:00    1667051

The only way Mayo would have and will win an All-Ireland is to bring in a few none Mayo players like Cork did in previous years.
There is just something missing physiologically with Mayo teams when it comes to winning the big one. Mortimer is just another of those he could have been great and Mayo would have won 3 All-Irelands with him type of guy.
His comments are only there to stir up the whole Mayo could have won 3 titles with me in there debates.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 26/10/2014 08:52:42    1667230

James Horan brought a steel to the Mayo team. They were class to watch. Mortimer had some style too but as earlier posts said he didn't deliver on AI final days. Additionally to leave the team because he wasn't going to start the Connacht final appears to be very ego driven. Maybe there was other issues too but lots of players with big reputations don't start.

Paul Galvin often didn't start, Darragh in his last year, Marc O Se and Kieran Donaghy this year. From feedback from these players via the media, it appears that this just drove them to improve further. Why wouldn't Mortimor do similar?

Marc O Se felt that Firzmaurice was wrong to drop him this year but took it and worked even harder to make sure his performance was ace next time. If Conor took a similar approach, he could have added the icing to the cake for Mayos AI dreams.

Did James Horan make some errors on the field ...yes. What manager hasn't? Did he take Mayo to another level; no doubt. I think Mayo are as near as they have ever been since the 1950s, it's a shame that James Horan has left. More of the Mayos underage talent will filter through.

One other point, I don't think the comparison between Donegal's Cassidy and Mayos Mortimor are the same. Cassidy gave some background information to a writer (albeit mostly well know information) but Jims strict code of confidentiality was broken and zero tolerance resulted in Cassidy's exile. I don't think it was an ego thing with Cassidy whilst I feel that initially for Conor, it was. Overall though shame no resolution was reached as both Cassidy and Mortimor would have added depth to Donegal and Mayo respectively.

kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1779 - 27/10/2014 15:57:09    1667500

24/10/2014 14:28:05
Torcaill
County: Australia
Posts: 56

1666888
jimbodub, Have you seen him play for his club over the past few years?

His club Parnells are in relegation playoffs for Championship and League so he cant be playing too well

Gael85 (Dublin) - Posts: 1433 - 27/10/2014 17:33:17    1667536

Can't believe this guy has written a book!

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 27/10/2014 17:54:05    1667541

Mortimer talked the talk, and talked and talked. A good freetaker, fond of going to ground after minimal contact when in freescoring range. Never worked hard enough to improve rest of the game. Content to get some good scores from play but never had the aggression of his brothers to win a ball to put him in the top bracket. When Mayo lads and ladies sit down for a few pints and talk football over the past 30 years TJ, Liam McHale, Kevin Cahill, Trevor and Ken Mortimer, Horan, Noel Durkin, Willie Joe, Billie Joe, And Moran, James Nallen, Ray Dempsey, Noel Connelly, Adidan and Seamus O'Shea, Peter Butler, Gabriel Irwin, Maurice Sheridan,Peter Burke, Lee Kegan, Keith Higgins, Colm Boyle,Kevin McStay, John Casey and a load more will be mentioned with fondness. They mightn't all have been great footballers but they gave there all for the Green and Red. Conor Mortimer would rarely be mentioned in such a conversation because he didn't. If he'd have stayed and fought to win his place back he might go up in my estimation. But he didn't.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 27/10/2014 21:35:14    1667620

Also the above mentioned along with countless other All Ireland medal winners played the game enjoyed their careers and finished without sour grapes.. What has this clown ever done to warrant writing a book? A few Connacht medals!! Give me a break...

Belclare1 (Galway) - Posts: 1626 - 28/10/2014 08:24:49    1667630

Will anybody buy this book?
He may be right about Horan but Conor Mortimer's career does not warrant a book.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 28/10/2014 08:55:53    1667633

One of the guys who seemed to enjoy the status of being an inter-county player more than the actual game. The bit on his lifestyle whilst living with Sutherland says it all. Ultimately, will he be remembered for his football or his Míchéal Jackson shirt? ~ PHS

Pope_has_spoken (Dublin) - Posts: 138 - 28/10/2014 10:59:40    1667660

Belclare1
County: Galway
Posts: 352

1667630
Also the above mentioned along with countless other All Ireland medal winners played the game enjoyed their careers and finished without sour grapes.. What has this clown ever done to warrant writing a book? A few Connacht medals!! Give me a break...

Can't believe I'm defending Mortimer here, but in fairness to him, he did a bit more than just win a few Connacht medals. He was top-scorer in the championship a couple of times, won a Sigerson Cup, won an All-Star award, represented Connacht in the interpros.

We have fellas disdaining Mortimer's physical intensity relative to his brothers, but he was smaller and about three stones lighter than Trevor or Kenneth.

He is no angel, but to say he achieved nothing in the game is plain wrong. Looking at his Wikipedia page just now, it seems that his book has already added to the bitterness which is blighting Mayo football at the moment.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 28/10/2014 12:07:45    1667698

Gleebo... Go through the great Galway teams from 98 to 01, they all won 2 All Irelands, all stars, Sigersons, Club All Irelands. Michael Donnellan , Ja Fallon, P Joyce, D Savage Tomas Mannion, to name a few, Others like Peter Canavan, Ciaran Whelan, the great Kerry players.. None of them brought out books or are constantly in the media always giving out about previous managers etc. He always craved the spotkight with his bleached hair and his T shirt!!! Compared to most he was still an under achiever!!

Belclare1 (Galway) - Posts: 1626 - 28/10/2014 13:53:15    1667749

He played for connacht and won an all-star - well he definately deserves to write a book so!!!! Get a grip man hundreds of players have achieved more then him just goes to show the ego of the player and the usual dilussion of mayo fans who back it up.

Quarehawk (Roscommon) - Posts: 22 - 28/10/2014 14:20:11    1667759

Gleebo
The bottom line is he failed to stay on board the county panel, do his training and might have helped Mayo win an All Ireland As regards to what he has win , IMO he should have stayed on board and tried to help win the real prize::: a CELTIC Cross With the right attitude could have been an asset to Mayo over the last 3/4 years but he seems to be doing just what K Cassidy has done the last few weeks, going back into the past and airing old grievances

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 28/10/2014 14:35:01    1667769

James Horan's record in All Ireland finals as a player and a manager, though not particularly great, is a lot better than Connor Mortimer's...

roundball (Tipperary) - Posts: 2514 - 28/10/2014 14:43:33    1667774

GreenandRed
County: Mayo
Posts: 1193

1667620
Mortimer talked the talk, and talked and talked. A good freetaker, fond of going to ground after minimal contact when in freescoring range. Never worked hard enough to improve rest of the game. Content to get some good scores from play but never had the aggression of his brothers to win a ball to put him in the top bracket. When Mayo lads and ladies sit down for a few pints and talk football over the past 30 years TJ, Liam McHale, Kevin Cahill, Trevor and Ken Mortimer, Horan, Noel Durkin, Willie Joe, Billie Joe, And Moran, James Nallen, Ray Dempsey, Noel Connelly, Adidan and Seamus O'Shea, Peter Butler, Gabriel Irwin, Maurice Sheridan,Peter Burke, Lee Kegan, Keith Higgins, Colm Boyle,Kevin McStay, John Casey and a load more will be mentioned with fondness. They mightn't all have been great footballers but they gave there all for the Green and Red. Conor Mortimer would rarely be mentioned in such a conversation because he didn't. If he'd have stayed and fought to win his place back he might go up in my estimation. But he didn't.

I can't believe you left Ciarán McDonald off that list!

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 28/10/2014 14:50:34    1667780

Would agree with all the criticism against Mortimer here, any Mayo fan who goes out to buy this book needs to have a serious look at themselves.

btkc (Mayo) - Posts: 14 - 28/10/2014 15:07:05    1667789

Yes J Horan has played in 3 finals ( replay included)and managed in 2 also. Mortimer played in 2 and lost 2. horan played in 3 lost 3 and managed the mayo team to two and lost miserably also. so how in the name of jasus has horan a better record ?? involved in 5 lost them all mortimer in 2 only ??

torres (None) - Posts: 34 - 28/10/2014 15:37:56    1667799

Mortimer is the highest ever scorer for mayo. All star, championships and over 95 games for mayo . Its a lot more than any of the guys on this forum has !!! represented ireland , connaught also. ha ha typical really when some fella does stuff outside the box its a crime :)I have always enjoyed watching him and will be buying his book for sure. Unless of course the guys on this will be publishing one sooner ?? did not think so. back in the box now lads ...remember PEOPLE ONLY RAIN ON YOUR PARADE, BECAUSE THEY ARE JEALOUS OF YOUR SUN AND TIRED OF YOUR SHADE. MAYO ABU.

torres (None) - Posts: 34 - 28/10/2014 15:43:25    1667801