Fionn
JOXER
AOS is a work horse. Connolly is an artist. It's like comparing Glen Whelan to Michel Platini.


Indeed. Both have a penchant for scoring against poor teams and bottling great chances in important matches. Both were better for their club than they were for their county/country. While people who don't have much of a clue about football, cant fathom why Whelan is rated by so many managers. Nice analogy...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 23/10/2014 16:08:44    1666582

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 12171

so is Paul Flynn, yet it didn't stop him from getting 4 all stars in a row

Ah now master, if you think Paul Flynn is only a workhorse, you need to start following another sport.

The guy is pure class and chips in with some delightful scores...

He is a legend already imo.

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3738 - 23/10/2014 16:09:25    1666583

Hill on the one hand you are banging on about Connolly been the best footballer in Ireland and on the other you are saying there are 5 forwards as good as him in Dublin alone. Monaghan were terrible against Dublin and both teams were terrible in the first 25 mins.Ryan McHugh was more effective in the championship then Connolly. And Jod was better then both.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 23/10/2014 16:09:38    1666584

The Master you had no problem with AOS and cillian o Conor getting all stars last year even doh they play against division 2/3 teams in Connaught and had one good performance against a shambles of a Donegal team last year and that both went missing in action.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 23/10/2014 16:22:28    1666590

Master, what u make of all the non dubs on this very thread saying DC is the best footballer in ireland today?
Ignore the Dubs saying it, what about the non Dubs, what do you say to them?
U cant accuse them of Bias....

As for my response to Rua, there is a difference. I have a lot of time for Rua, I respect his opinion and have often chatted constructively with him on similar matters, hence why i am interested in his justification.

As for you Master. I find your contributions comical and humourous.

ps - Comparing Aidan O'Shea to Connolly is like comparing microwave chips to a bag of burdocks best

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 23/10/2014 16:23:42    1666591

23/10/2014 14:31:47
Liamwalkinstown
County: Dublin
Posts: 5903

1666532 Rua, the hyperbole does your argument no favours.
Can I ask, why the intense dislike for Connolly and the point blank refusal to acknowledge his class?

Why is it if someone says Player A is a great player, and you disagree, you try to make a mockery of the opposing argument?

Plenty lads here from your own county and province would call BS on your post there my friend

___
Read my first post on this thread - which I standover - The hyperbole is to counter what I feel is some serious OTT blue tinted analysis

I stated that Connolly is a highly talented footballer - I have no like/dislike for him either way.

However In my view - he is not yet an all time great or even one of the greats of his generation.
The fact is that at the cutting edge of the championship against the top teams. The only stand out moments I can recall are
the display against Tyrone in 2011, the first 15 mins v Donegal and a classy point into the hill in the second half.

Huge Talent yes - Consistently delivering when it matters the most - maybe in 5 years time - but not in my view today.

Take the past decade and a half - the following players in my view have been outstanding (not fully inclusive)Looking only at teams that won Sam
to cover JOxers point about stand out players in poorer teams
Cluxton/Flynn/Brogan x 2 / O Se x 3, Dec O Sullivan,Gooch,Galvin,Moynihan,Lacey,McGee,MCGeeny,MCGrane,McConville,Cavanagh,O Neill,Dooher,Gormley,Canty,Canavan,Joyce.

(From Recent years this list excludes Murphy,McFadden,Marty Clarke,Coulter, Ronan Clarke,Goulding, Andy Moran, Andy Dillon, KEvin Cassidy, Bary Owens,Donaghy, Galvin, Keith Higgins, Barry Cahill, McDonald,Mulligan)

so 20 plus players who have performed at the highest level on the biggest stage on numerous occasions- Of that group I'd categroise no more than 5/6 as being all time greats. - another 13 who are there or there abouts

In my view what Connolly has delivered at this stage in his career (28 years of age) reaching several AI semi finals would rank him below all of the above.

In summary I disagree with the idea that he has yet achieved greatness He has the talent to do so - and when he does fair play

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 23/10/2014 16:36:26    1666595

well i never said anything about lynch so dunno why that is being brought up...club football has no relevance to the discussion on player of the year so i dont understand why people keep bringing it up

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 23/10/2014 16:38:36    1666597

No doubt Connolly is a very talented lad but for me he is way too casual he is not ruthless enough in front of goal to be considered a truly great player his ratio of chances taken is way too low and after all as a forward player that is his primary duty

millhouse (Meath) - Posts: 892 - 23/10/2014 16:44:09    1666604

beir_bua

obviously you havent played in both roles.
if you play on a team thatisnt good you will be given the ball more often
hence you have more of the ball so much more of a chance to stand out
if you play on a team that has players of the same level of ability as you
then defenders will look up and give it to the guy in best position regardless of who it is
where as with wexford nine times out of ten a wexford back would look for mattie forde regardless of who was on him.
in total if you see more of the ball then you have more chance to shine simple as

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 23/10/2014 17:24:39    1666625

ROS1
County: Roscommon
Posts: 130

1666584
Hill on the one hand you are banging on about Connolly been the best footballer in Ireland and on the other you are saying there are 5 forwards as good as him in Dublin alone. Monaghan were terrible against Dublin and both teams were terrible in the first 25 mins.Ryan McHugh was more effective in the championship then Connolly. And Jod was better then both.

worng there pal
i didnt say he is the best footballer in ireland
I said he deserved footballer of the year for 2014
yes there are 5 other forwards on the dublin team in the same level as him
but doesnt mean you cannot say one is better than an other now does it?
oh so now monaghan were terrible against dublin thats why we won
come on man give it a rest its getting tiresome
sure you must not have even atched half the games
if you are relying on other posters to inform you of who played and scored in games

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 23/10/2014 17:28:44    1666627

fabio8
County: USA
Posts: 785

1666597
well i never said anything about lynch so dunno why that is being brought up...club football has no relevance to the discussion on player of the year so i dont understand why people keep bringing it up

so club football has no relevance
is it not football?
it in nowhere states inter county footballer of the year whenever i see it
this is like your other statements that the league doesnt matter
it seems you like to make assumptions based on what suits your own arguments

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 23/10/2014 17:30:53    1666628

Rua he's 27 he's not 28 til next July, and it's well documented why he's only really performing consistently the last few years. Just two examples of his younger days with management; under Caffrey he was barred by Pillar from going to Coppers cause of the trouble he use to get in and under Gilroy and Whelan both vincents men he was kicked off the panel after running amok on a training camp in Spain

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 23/10/2014 17:32:22    1666631

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 5511

1666631
Rua he's 27 he's not 28 til next July, and it's well documented why he's only really performing consistently the last few years. Just two examples of his younger days with management; under Caffrey he was barred by Pillar from going to Coppers cause of the trouble he use to get in and under Gilroy and Whelan both vincents men he was kicked off the panel after running amok on a training camp in Spain

yeah but brought back on
where was the same pardon for the blonde bombshell mark vaughan
he never got a second chance
these anti dubs would really be in trouble if vaughan reached his potential

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 23/10/2014 17:55:38    1666642

I'm a big Connolly fan and in the past argued that he deserved an AllStar when others said his temperament was bad and he was inconsistent. I agree his AllStar is deserved. He's concentrating on the football and not the other nasty side that often crept into his game. However he's still inconsistent.

One of those players who's capable of the sublime and can mesmerize the audience with his magic but on the off days he can fade completely out of games. I could agree that he's the best footballer in the country because his best is probably miles above everyone else's best however when people talk about the 'best' in any sport, things like consistency, versatility, temperament, often come into it and maybe Connolly is lacking in these departments.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 23/10/2014 18:14:14    1666648

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 8655

obviously you havent played in both roles.

That's very presumptuous of you.

if you play on a team thatisnt good you will be given the ball more often
hence you have more of the ball so much more of a chance to stand out

Not true at all. A lesser team is likely to have less possession and the ball going into the forwards is likely to be less frequent and of a poorer quality.

if you play on a team that has players of the same level of ability as you
then defenders will look up and give it to the guy in best position regardless of who it is

Teammates of a higher quality will be more effective at creating space for their fellow forwards and they are likely to be a lot more accurate in their delivery to the inside lines.

where as with wexford nine times out of ten a wexford back would look for mattie forde regardless of who was on him.

But in most cases he would have been double if not triple marked which clearly makes it more difficult for a forward in a lesser team to produce a standout top quality performance.

in total if you see more of the ball then you have more chance to shine simple as

So are you seriously suggesting that Connolly would get more chance to shine if he was in say the Kildare or the Meath forward lines? That's very strange logic. Surely the more ability your teammates have, the better you will play as an individual.

beir_bua (Kildare) - Posts: 746 - 23/10/2014 18:23:17    1666650

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 12178

1666582

Fionn
JOXER
AOS is a work horse. Connolly is an artist. It's like comparing Glen Whelan to Michel Platini.


Indeed. Both have a penchant for scoring against poor teams and bottling great chances in important matches. Both were better for their club than they were for their county/country. While people who don't have much of a clue about football, cant fathom why Whelan is rated by so many managers. Nice analogy...

----

Michel Platini 3 Ballon D'Ors, 2 World Soccer Player of the year awards. Glen Whelan one McDonald's balloon and a subbuteo World Cup edition.

Diarmuid Connolly, 2 Celtic Crosses, Aidan O'Shea...... Well let's just leave the analogies there shall we.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 23/10/2014 18:41:42    1666658

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 12178

1666550
Mollymalone Im not denying Connolly's ability. But the fact is we aren't picking the best players, we are picking the guys who performed best in a particular set of games. He wasn't in the top 3 half forwards in the country in those games, simple as that. Even the article in the herald, which is partisan to say the least, can only come up with Connolly's performances against tyrone in the league, and for vincents as justification for his inclusion - neither of which are viable criteria for an all star selection by the way. Liam references his performance against monaghan - where he scored a goal and missed 2 sitters in a dead ringer of a game. So if you score a goal you get an all star, is that it liam? They simply don't measure up to the performances of McHugh or O'Shea in the corresponding fixtures. If people want to start awarding all stars just on ability as mollymalone is doing here, then lee keegan would be nailed on, right? The fact is regardless of his undeniable ability, he doesn't deserve one because his performances in those games weren't good enough, same as Connolly.

------
Yes but Master what is this eligible criteria that you speak of? In a post above you say only championship games yet then you rule out performances against teams that were already beaten before a ball was thrown in, a reference to LSFC presumably. Now you rule out an AI quarter final, DC was joint top scorer from play in that game. You have ruled out club championship games. So all that's left is AI semi and final. Even then Connolly scored 4 sensational points in the semi. To cap it all you cite a AOS performance against Galway (yes Galway!!) a team that finished second from bottom in Div 2 to support his case for an all-star.

So tell us what is this criteria that you are going on about and how is this work horse AOS eligible and Connolly not?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 23/10/2014 19:42:17    1666677

I was silly Hill to think you might know about one of your own players, i was at the Dub/mon match and monaghan were terrible. Your point about it been easier for Connolly to stand out if was playing for Tipp or Wexford is ridiculous in the extreme, he would see his supply of ball dry up for a start and treble marked as well.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 23/10/2014 20:07:34    1666683

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 12178

1666582

Fionn
JOXER
AOS is a work horse. Connolly is an artist. It's like comparing Glen Whelan to Michel Platini.


Indeed. Both have a penchant for scoring against poor teams and bottling great chances in important matches. Both were better for their club than they were for their county/country. While people who don't have much of a clue about football, cant fathom why Whelan is rated by so many managers. Nice analogy...

----

Michel Platini 3 Ballon D'Ors, 2 World Soccer Player of the year awards. Glen Whelan one McDonald's balloon and a subbuteo World Cup edition.

Diarmuid Connolly, 2 Celtic Crosses, Aidan O'Shea......

---
I'm struggling with you point here ?
You list platinis individual awards as awarded by peers / journalists and sporting body's

The comparison is all stars so it's one all by my count
But if you picked colm Boyle or Keith Higgins clearly you would get a different score

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 23/10/2014 20:22:02    1666691

JOXER
AOS is a work horse. Connolly is an artist. It's like comparing Glen Whelan to Michel Platini.

Michel Platini 3 Ballon D'Ors, 2 World Soccer Player of the year awards. Glen Whelan one McDonald's balloon and a subbuteo World Cup edition.

Diarmuid Connolly, 2 Celtic Crosses, Aidan O'Shea...... Well let's just leave the analogies there shall we.


You are on top form here Joxer.... lol

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3738 - 23/10/2014 20:40:47    1666696