An example of what i think the stats would look like if Tipp were in Leinster and Kilkenny in Munster
Big 1 in Leinster-Tipp 60 titles
Big 2 in Munster Kilkenny 50 titles,Cork 40 titles.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 16:22:32    1664000

Maybe Maybe not ( if my aunt had b***s etc) but it would still read,

Kilkenny 35
Cork 30
Tipp 26

Arturo.Gatti (Kilkenny) - Posts: 52 - 15/10/2014 16:27:13    1664002

I never said it was a level playing field post 1980.Offaly certainly made Leinster more competetive after winning their first title in 1980..I think both provinces are only on a par recently-with Dublin finally dinin g at the top table and Galway moving province.And we all agree this current Kilkenny team is the greatest of all time so i dont think comparing this incredible 15 year era of dominance is a fair reflection of the debate.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 16:29:41    1664003

Oh yea and my revised All Ireland roll of honour would be something like
Tipperary 35 All Irelands
Kilkenny 30 All Irelands
Cork 25 All Irelands
I better put away the crystal ball for another day.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 16:32:14    1664004

You can dream all you want cue, meanwhile back on planet earth Kilkenny are top dogs.

Also Cork and Tipp have twice the population of Kilkenny and we shouldn't be within touching distance of those huge counties when it comes to All Irelands won, we've been punching above our weight for a long time now.

Arturo.Gatti (Kilkenny) - Posts: 52 - 15/10/2014 16:39:44    1664007

Ha arturo were only shooting the breeze.I respect the black n amber.Especially this team.JJ is my favourite player of all time.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 16:43:20    1664010

I was beginning to think you were thurlesblues in disguise there for a minute cue.

Arturo.Gatti (Kilkenny) - Posts: 52 - 15/10/2014 17:18:09    1664033

I was beginning to think you were thurlesblues in disguise there for a minute cue.

Arturo.Gatti (Kilkenny) - Posts: 52 - 15/10/2014 17:18:09    1664034

Oh please God no.I take it all back!

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 17:21:03    1664035

Thurles has the blues more like.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 17:27:27    1664040

Fester
The reason Galway are not in Munster is they were there for 11 seasons (59-69) and all they won was one match, v Clare, who were then at their lowest point ever. I do not think Galway particularly wanted to rejoin us.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4323 - 15/10/2014 20:16:04    1664110

Haven't been on the site for the last couple of days but when I saw the plethora of "unfair advantage" threads popping up I just knew Jon Carter would lob a grenade with Kilkenny's name on it into the house and shut the door behind him.

At the moment, I don't think there is a particular advantage. With Galway coming into the Leinster championship in 2009, and Dublin becoming more competitive since about the same time, the Leinster and Munster championships have definitely become more equitable. Hopefully Wexford will kick on too. Unfortunately Offaly are miles behind and don't look like catching up any time soon, while it's difficult to see Antrim or Laois being threats either.

Historically, have Kilkenny had an advantage from Leinster being seen as the "weaker" province? You could say that. I agree, I don't think Kilkenny would have as many provincial titles had we been in Munster. However, that's not necessarily to say we would have won less All-Irelands.

During periods when the Leinster championship was not strong, fairly mediocre Kilkenny teams might win a couple of provincials but were nowhere near good enough to win All-Irelands. In my lifetime, the best example I would give is the team of 1986/87. The Leinster championship in the late 80s was not up to much and they managed to win 2 Leinsters back-to-back but it was a thoroughly average Kilkenny side and got spanked twice by Galway in the '86 semi-final and '87 final. Were Leinster a stronger province back then, that 86/87 Kilkenny team may not have even emerged out of the province to compete in an All-Ireland semi or final. I have no doubt that instances like this would have been replicated several times throughout the 20th century, where average Kilkenny teams were good enough to win Leinster but not good enough to win an All-Ireland. So, in my opinion, Kilkenny's provincial haul is inflated by being in the "weaker" province so to speak.

But, when good Kilkenny teams have won Leinster championships (team of early to mid-70s, 1982/83 team, 1992/93 team, Cody era) they've more often than not been more than capable of competing against and beating the best Munster teams.

PS one thing I do not like about the Leinster championship is the bye the previous year's Leinster champions get into the semi-final. This was introduced by the Leinster Council on the assumption that Kilkenny would win every year and they wanted to avoid one of the smaller counties like Laois or Westmeath drawing Kilkenny in a QF and getting a hammering. However, Galway won in 2012 and Dublin in 2013 so the premise that Kilkenny would be perpetual Leinster champions was utterly flawed. It should be new year, new draw as far as I'm concerned.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 16/10/2014 12:58:20    1664239

Refreshingly honest post Ballydallane.I agree with the vast majority of what u said.No doubt the Leinster and Munster championships are now on a par.Long may it continue.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 16/10/2014 13:46:57    1664250

Clare,Tipp and Cork have all contested or won the AI in recent years. Galway got to final alright but are the only county in Leinster to contest an AI final except KK in ages.Still not consistently at the top table. I would still think there is slightly more competition in Munster considering Limerick and Waterford have won Munster titles also.
KK certainly wouldn't have as many provincial titles or I suspect AI's if in Munster.Not meant to be slight on their achievements but is something I think the GAA need to address as with Kerry in Munster.

911 (USA) - Posts: 41 - 16/10/2014 18:21:27    1664399

It is a strange system getting a bye but you could look at it similarly to the Munster Fball cship and the weaker teams are guaranteed an extra game. But having said that, I think it's unfair. If I was Carlow or Westmeath I'd want to get KK/Galway in first round. Everyone wants to play against the best. And to be honest I doubt KK are even in favour of the system as they would prefer the game time.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 16/10/2014 18:21:38    1664400