You really do love a conspiracy don't you!
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1465 - 08/11/2016 14:20:23

That's TWICE you failed to answer the question.

You're on here on HS blindly supporting this proposed Casement Park project, and then you mention you are somehow connected to the design team, you apparently work in the same office, as you sent me a message from them. That to me suggests you have a vested interest in this project, in that you or your employer stands to gain financially from this Stadium going ahead.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 13:10:32    1933001

As an outsider coming from a province with possibly too many 35,000 plus stadiums it strikes me that the new proposed capacity for Casement is too low. Its an inbetween number when Ulster surely needs 1 45-50,000 size stadium.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts:449 - 08/11/2016 16:12:43

The Proposed Casement will now have a Capacity that is lower than Clones, due to site restrictions at the Casement Park site.

This entire project is a joke, the Antrim poster's will back this until their final breath, as bumpernut seems to work with the design team of Casement and the others will benefit from having a multi-million facility on their doorstep.

But as an Ulster Gael from Derry City, who has travelled many times to every major ground around Ulster, It was clear from very early on that Casement was not the best location for a Provincial Stadium of Ulster. This proposed Stadium is really being pushed for non-GAA reasons.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 13:19:07    1933005

'I really do wonder how casement managed to hold big matches at all over the years given its not fit for purpose, particularly parking as it seems to really annoy some people. Somehow It's easier to park in a mucky field and eventually squeeze out on to a country road, then sit in traffic for half an hour before you get over 10mph.

It' clearly not fit for purpose, your resorting to asking how it held big games 40 years ago, at a time when there were less cars in general, less congestion. The issues Ulster GAA fans are faced with in Clones, will not be resolved if all major Provincial games are held in Casement.

As for Park n ride id say it might be there to placate those GAA snobs who don't really want to set foot in west Belfast due to it being full of soccer fans and car thieves.
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1465 - 08/11/2016 14:43:02

Are you saying those designing the Stadium only added the "Park & Ride" option to placate Snobs?

Wise up, you know full well the "Park & Ride" was added as it was clearly determined that the area surrounding Casement had insufficient parking. You're the one here talking about car thieves and soccer fans, not me, your looking to play some kinda victim card here for West Belfast.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 13:28:29    1933008

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 09/11/2016 13:40:08    1933010

Gary I direct you to the Ard Stiúrthóirs report from last year, where does it say it will be the sole domain of all provincial games, which seems to be your main gripe. For £15M of the GAA's money we'll build casement with all its faults and invite anyone whom wishes to attend any games which are fortunate enough to be fixed there. Your £25M for Healy Park or whichever other crackpot idea you have simply isn't in the coffers as the GAA had only ever budgeted the £15M.

Well considering this Proposed Stadium has been publicly talked up as the Provincial Stadium of Ulster, the future home of Ulster GAA, I would say that report must have left a few pages out. Everybody and their granny knows the Intended purpose of this Stadium, members of the Ulster Council have openly said it in the last couple of years.

As for £15 million budget, Mayo GAA borrowed €20 million to redevelop McHale Park, that's one County that did that to achieve an objective. And your almost suggesting Ulster GAA collectively couldn't raise £25 million, with £15 million already in the pot. Nonsense, It could easily be done.

Your conspiracy theories of the UK governments to the English Rugby unions plans for a GAA stadium are amusing but wrong. This isn't a provincial project it is a national one hence central councils involvement and why wouldn't central council want modern stadia in Dublin, Belfast and Cork so whilst your utopian ideal of a central location may make sense logistically anyone whom has been sent to Thurles for All-Ireland semis and finals from the North coast will tell you that the distance teams and fans have to travel is nowhere near the top of the GAA's agenda.

Why build the Provincial Stadium of Ulster in Belfast City, when fails to address every single issue fans had with Clones. Even the Antrim fans have resorted to excuses such as "Belfast is better for non-GAA events, concerts, Corporate events etc", or "Belfast has the Airports, hotels etc to host International events, like the Rugby World Cup".

I'm shocked that nobody asked "What's best or what would make life handier for the Ulster GAA fans who contribute so much funding to Ulster GAA".

This allied with the fact that outside of Ulster football and Munster hurling there is a growing chorus to revamp the provincials so would it make economic sense to build a stadium in the centre of a province which may in the not too distant future be the centre of nothing.
duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts:138 - 08/11/2016 15:50:12 1932

Provincial Championships are not changing anytime soon, and while an overall Championship revamp is taking place, the Provincial Championships will remain. The overall structure needs to be changed slightly, but current issues with certain Provincial Championships probably highlight a serious level of imbalance in games development funding in certain area's. Is it really a surprise that the Leinster Football Championship is dominated by Dublin, when they receive more Game development funding than the whole 9 Counties of Ulster.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 13:45:56    1933013

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/11/2016 14:03:12    1933022

how much? £25m or anywhere near it? Once again you choose not to see the big picture. A major development is not decided on a few extra miles down the road for fans, even though that's not the case for many.

Take the amount donated to the Rugby and Soccer in the North, and the GAA as the sole Nationalist sporting organisation will stand to gain from a similar amount. Norn Iron is a special case, the funding won't go away just because the location is challenged due to it being totally unsuitable.

yea come back in 10 years with your proposal for that one. With the amount of delays and mishaps before they've even broke ground on something that will take a lot longer to build than a stadium, that would be a real leap of faith at this stage.

Some stages are going ahead now, with support of both sides of the Community ( Derry/New Buildings to Strabane) due to a significant number of crashes and deaths in recent months. But even as things stand, the current A5 from Derry to Omagh still gets fans there in under an hour. That time will get shorter as each stage of the New A5 is implemented.

Dear...Lord! do you know how many park and rides are in Belfast? do you know you can still drive right into the city centre and get a parking space on any given day! they are there to help the flow of traffic and to give people options, not to be confused with calling an area a no go zone. I would have thought that was pretty basic logic. Clearly you haven't been near the Casement area if you can't identify the many parking areas that range from shopping centres to GAA clubs to residential housing. Another thing that has been stated on here many times before, but sure...

I know from the Health & Safety audit, that it was determined that there was insufficient parking around Casement. So in order to bypass this inconvenience, the suggestion that GAA fans could instead use Park & Rides where Introduced. So regardless of City Centre parking options, there is still insufficient parking in West Belfast for the number's expected.

what do you have against a multi purpose stadium that will boost the economy? am I supposed to feel bad about that. I'd feel worse about a white elephant monstrosity sitting in rural Ulster gathering dust until June. Maybe you should try to consider GAA fans here who no doubt would travel for other events in Belfast. They're not all one dimensional tae drinkers you know.

I have nothing against a multi-purpose stadium, however In this particular case we would have a Stadium that serves "Other purposes" more that it serves the GAA fans who provide most of the funding organisation in general. A central Stadium could host the Ulster Club Championship games, and would become more viable for a host of other GAA events throughout the year. It would truly become a GAA hub.

you know your getting desperate when your on the same level as certain Unionist MP's and a small group of pathetic handout merchants who couldn't tell you who won this years AI in either code. I know several residents from Owenvarragh/Mooreland and they are all in favour of the stadium however big they build it and are ashamed of the minority who know exactly what they are doing. Health and safety can be worked out just as expansion can but if the shoe fits you join Nelson McCausland and the benefit street boys in opposing it.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:1006 - 08/11/2016 20:14:24

They may be against this for various reasons, but that does not change the fact this proposed Provincial Stadium of Ulster will serve "Other sports or events" better than the Provincial GAA fans it is supposedly being built for. Stupid comments like "Why shouldn't Belfast have a modern GAA stadium" are easily contested with "Because it hasn't improved on any issue GAA fans had with Clones, such as parking, distance etc".

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 14:06:11    1933025

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/11/2016 14:09:44    1933027

considering this years Ulster final 'the clash if the titans' was attended by 33,433 without a stampede it hardly matters does it?

Well had the venue been Omagh, with 35-45,000 capacity and great parking, I reckon the GAA would have witnessed a record crowd.


if you dont want any other events, strickly GAA only, what a white elephant that would be in the back end of nowhere.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:1006 - 09/11/2016 13:40:08 1933010

Omagh is hardly the back end of nowhere, It is fairly central in terms of travel to all counties and other large towns/Cities like Derry, Strabane, Letterkenny, Ballybofey, Donegal Town, Enniskillen, Cavan, Monaghan, Castleblaney, Armagh, Dungannon, Cookstown etc.

And I am open to a GAA stadium hosting non-GAA events, however I strongly believe a GAA venue should give ultimate consideration to Gaelic Games first and foremost. Didn't the Central council book a American Football match in Croke Park on a weekend that should have been designated for a potential All Ireland Semi Final replay between Mayo and Kerry in 2014?

There is clearly a disconnect between the people at the very top of the GAA, and many ordinary people at the bottom. And if they don't start being more considerate to the needs of GAA fans, they might find themselves at the wrong end of a fan revolution.

GAA bosses take the funding they receives through gates and merchandise sales for granted, giving preferential treatment to single large donors who throw in a large cheque now and again. I think the Proposed Casement symbolises this type of thinking amon

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 14:23:19    1933031

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/11/2016 14:27:37    1933032

U do the detective work Sherlock....

My vested interest is im a gaa fan from west Belfast who looks forward to sitting in the new casement watching my county and possibly country
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1467 - 09/11/2016 14:03:12

Three times now you failed to answer my question

- You have clearly made a statement, suggesting they are located next to you, and you have direct contact with members of the Design team for Casement Park. You even said you were passing on a message from them to me, listing a number of groups I should contact.

Do you have a vested Interested in this project?
As in do you work for a company directly involved in the Casement Park project or who stand to gain from it's development going ahead?
If so, how many other people from your office are trolls on this thread?

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 14:35:12    1933036

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/11/2016 14:38:54    1933037

Take the amount donated to the Rugby and Soccer in the North, and the GAA as the sole Nationalist sporting organisation will stand to gain from a similar amount. Norn Iron is a special case, the funding won't go away just because the location is challenged due to it being totally unsuitable.


If you really were a GAA man of the people like you claim to be you would recognise that the GAA would be better placed to hold onto their own budget and invest it in the things that matter at grass roots, club and school level. If I'm honest, I'd prefer that Antrim were getting investment in coaching and development of the games etc than a brand new stadium but neither here nor there. The GAA are happy that Belfast is a very suitable venue for a provincial stadium at the bare minimum of expense which opens up other areas to invest for the future.

Some stages are going ahead now, with support of both sides of the Community ( Derry/New Buildings to Strabane) due to a significant number of crashes and deaths in recent months. But even as things stand, the current A5 from Derry to Omagh still gets fans there in under an hour. That time will get shorter as each stage of the New A5 is implemented.

well if Casement is the failure you predict you can maybe revisit that in 2024 onwards. I'll not be holding my breath on that being the case.

I know from the Health & Safety audit, that it was determined that there was insufficient parking around Casement. So in order to bypass this inconvenience, the suggestion that GAA fans could instead use Park & Rides where Introduced. So regardless of City Centre parking options, there is still insufficient parking in West Belfast for the number's expected.


Nonsense, the Casement area deals with thousands of people stopping and passing through on a daily basis. You'd have to be thick as champ to expect to park just outside a stadium on match day regardless of the location but the surrounding areas offer many parking options. Of course you would know this if you had been to the area or claim to be an expert on the topic...

I have nothing against a multi-purpose stadium, however In this particular case we would have a Stadium that serves "Other purposes" more that it serves the GAA fans who provide most of the funding organisation in general. A central Stadium could host the Ulster Club Championship games, and would become more viable for a host of other GAA events throughout the year. It would truly become a GAA hub.


That's just being fanciful. At most it'll get used 4 or 5 times a year unless there are some new GAA 'events' that we don't know about yet. Nowhere near feasible.

They may be against this for various reasons, but that does not change the fact this proposed Provincial Stadium of Ulster will serve "Other sports or events" better than the Provincial GAA fans it is supposedly being built for. Stupid comments like "Why shouldn't Belfast have a modern GAA stadium" are easily contested with "Because it hasn't improved on any issue GAA fans had with Clones, such as parking, distance etc".




In that case, when the GAA begin to invest in other areas of the game, you can campaign for the money to be given back to support your white elephant project. You'll be very popular at deprived clubs up and down the country I'm sure. Just tell them again how you can save them a tenner petrol on Ulster final day!

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 09/11/2016 14:52:36    1933040

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/11/2016 15:01:28    1933045

Have a look at the beginning of the thread to see who started referring to soccer supporters and car thieves.

As for the 'victim card' accusation, thats usually a churlish attempt to somehow gain the high moral ground by those trying and failing to defend the indefensible
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1468 - 09/11/2016 14:27:37

Yes but I don't believe GAA fans across Ulster hold any dislike or distaste for West Belfast as a place, I mean we will always get some Idiot making a negative vibe about a place or it's people ( Like I seen here from some towards Derry and its people). But I know better than to believe that is a widely held view.

So when Antrim poster's are confronted with a factual argument as to why West Belfast is not suitable as a location for a Provincial Stadium of Ulster, I don't think rolling out comments suggesting everybody despises the people of West Belfast or West Belfast as an area is right.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 15:05:55    1933046

I just noticed this there now, so i'll assume you haven't been to casement too many times. So all your arguments about casement and the surrounding area are based solely on a Health & safety audit.

I'll let you into a wee secret Gary, supporters tended to go for the closest and cheapest option when it came to parking around casement which included parking on footpaths and up side streets, they've even been known to park in front of residents driveways would you believe, all to save a few quid in parking.
Now id be very surprised if this audit/report was taking those supporters and their parking requirements into account don't you think
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1471 - 09/11/2016 14:38:54

Yes I have been to Casement a few times over a good few years, mostly to games with relatively low numbers attending and I openly support it being developed as a ground, just not for the purpose of being a Provincial Ground. So really I am using this report to strengthen my argument, this project was halted on this basis, so it is a viable report to discuss on here.

Planning people carried out a study that found the area is not capable of coping parking vehicles carrying that number of people, and you think It's a joke that I am using it to back up the host of other reasons why Casement is not suitable.

Still no answer regarding you connection to the Casement Project I see, perhaps you are a troll on here to try and quell discontent regarding this project?

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 15:21:54    1933050

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/11/2016 15:46:03    1933060

If you really were a GAA man of the people like you claim to be you would recognise that the GAA would be better placed to hold onto their own budget and invest it in the things that matter at grass roots, club and school level. If I'm honest, I'd prefer that Antrim were getting investment in coaching and development of the games etc than a brand new stadium but neither here nor there. The GAA are happy that Belfast is a very suitable venue for a provincial stadium at the bare minimum of expense which opens up other areas to invest for the future.

On what basis are the GAA happy?, clearly not on the basis it serves the GAA fans best. Thank you for confirming the GAA Intend this to be a Provincial Stadium. I am a man of the people, and I realise the GAA are selling their soul to the British, and Ignoring the people they should be serving.

well if Casement is the failure you predict you can maybe revisit that in 2024 onwards. I'll not be holding my breath on that being the case.

So rather than working out whats best for our future GAA needs, you think we should proceed with what is clearly already a poor option, then decide in 2024 just how big of a failure it was. Why 2024, do you think a Rugby event for 30-40 days might make it somehow seem a worthwhile project?

Nonsense, the Casement area deals with thousands of people stopping and passing through on a daily basis. You'd have to be thick as champ to expect to park just outside a stadium on match day regardless of the location but the surrounding areas offer many parking options. Of course you would know this if you had been to the area or claim to be an expert on the topic...

The problem is when you add 34,000 additional people to the mass amount of people who as you say already pass through the area everyday, that is where these issues become larger.

That's just being fanciful. At most it'll get used 4 or 5 times a year unless there are some new GAA 'events' that we don't know about yet. Nowhere near feasible.

Nonsense, I believe more Ulster Club Championship games could be held at a more central location. It is also pure Ignorance to believe major concerts can not take place outside of Belfast, having recently seen major concerts take place around the Country outside of major Cities, such as Bruce Springsteen playing Nolan Park in Kilkenny recently.

In that case, when the GAA begin to invest in other areas of the game, you can campaign for the money to be given back to support your white elephant project. You'll be very popular at deprived clubs up and down the country I'm sure. Just tell them again how you can save them a tenner petrol on Ulster final day!
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:1007 - 09/11/2016 14:52:36 19

Again more nonsense, your are the only one backing the biggest white elephant in the history of our game.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 15:46:08    1933061

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 09/11/2016 15:58:36    1933068

Oh and here I wouldn't want you losing anymore sleep......im really a poorly paid civil servant, albeit with obviously too much time on his hands, I hope that doesn't shatter your illusion of me or my supposed role
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts:1474 - 09/11/2016 15:58:36

It opens further questions to your actual specific role as a Government employee, and your involvement into a government funded initiative supported by certain political parties.

Your on here supporting this project going ahead, yet you clearly have a vested interest in the project, making statements of your close connection to the design team.

This weakens your position on here, you aren't simply a Gael arguing for whats the best location for Ulster's Provincial stadium, you are directly connected to the project through your work, a project that you are on here shouting in favour of.

It's no wonder you are blind to it's flaws.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 09/11/2016 16:10:54    1933081