|
Replying To Breffni39: "Nah, it's just that there is an entire county between Clones and the "extreme south of Ulster"" Jaysus, talk about nit picking!
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 26/10/2016 14:05:33
1929169
Link
0
|
|
As I mentioned earlier you could probably make logical arguements as to why you shouldn't do a lot of things. As with Croker park and other projects which have gone ahead. If you are against it that's fine but if in years to come it is a success which I believe it will be then that's what really matters.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts:1034 - 26/10/2016 08:29:05
I have stated many solid reasons why Casement shouldn't be the Provincial home to Ulster GAA, but I have also backed that up with viable alternatives that could be reviewed, studied, costed and debated. Hell even by moving the Stadium out the Motorway to the Magherafelt roundabout ( End of the M22/M2 ) would make a massive improvement to travel & parking in all directions. This project is being pushed for non-GAA reasons, ignoring many issues, and that is why I am so opposed to this.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/10/2016 14:09:12
1929170
Link
0
|
|
Replying To SaffronDon: "Jaysus, talk about nit picking!" How is it nit-picking? I'm not arguing for/against Clones/Casement just stating the fact that Clones is not in the extreme south of Ulster no matter what you want to look at it. It's like saying Omagh is in the extreme west.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12123 - 26/10/2016 14:15:50
1929173
Link
2
|
|
Replying To bumpernut: "Yes it is, how dare they send me to West Belfast sure all they do is watch soccer or steal cars
So the world grinds to a halt in Belfast after 6 o'clock does it, next you'll be telling me the roads close at 7 ffs" In Northern Ireland it grinds to a half after 6. Public transport in the North is shocking.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 26/10/2016 14:19:47
1929176
Link
0
|
|
Gary, how many times must we all do this endless Casement cycle?? You've said everything you've had to say at least 10 times over. As has everyone else on this topic. We are no nearer to agreeing than when this first came about and frankly, it doesn't matter. Why waste any more time on this?
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:973 - 26/10/2016 09:45:19
When considering a Provincial Stadium location, planners should study what the key function of the Stadium will be, such as who will use it and how they will arrive/depart (Car, Bus, Train, Plane), will they stay overnight (Hotels etc).
When looking at the typical GAA Fan in Ulster travelling to a GAA match, the City location is of less benefit to them than a non-City location, but is probably ideal for International Rugby fans.
So who should be given more consideration when planning a Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium? The Rugby World Cup fans arriving for a few weeks one summer, or the Provincial GAA fans who will be forced to use this for the next 30-40 years?
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/10/2016 14:33:41
1929187
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Breffni39: "How is it nit-picking? I'm not arguing for/against Clones/Casement just stating the fact that Clones is not in the extreme south of Ulster no matter what you want to look at it. It's like saying Omagh is in the extreme west." In terms of travel time and access via roads, Clones really is the extreme south of the Province, as it takes approximately as long to reach it as any other point. A key problem for fans around Ulster that the new Casement won't address either.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/10/2016 14:36:13
1929189
Link
0
|
|
Replying To GaryMc82: "Gary, how many times must we all do this endless Casement cycle?? You've said everything you've had to say at least 10 times over. As has everyone else on this topic. We are no nearer to agreeing than when this first came about and frankly, it doesn't matter. Why waste any more time on this?
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:973 - 26/10/2016 09:45:19
When considering a Provincial Stadium location, planners should study what the key function of the Stadium will be, such as who will use it and how they will arrive/depart (Car, Bus, Train, Plane), will they stay overnight (Hotels etc).
When looking at the typical GAA Fan in Ulster travelling to a GAA match, the City location is of less benefit to them than a non-City location, but is probably ideal for International Rugby fans.
So who should be given more consideration when planning a Ulster GAA Provincial Stadium? The Rugby World Cup fans arriving for a few weeks one summer, or the Provincial GAA fans who will be forced to use this for the next 30-40 years?" Again Gary, I would have to say this is more of what you've already stated several times. What I'm asking is, why keep posting the same points?
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 26/10/2016 14:44:16
1929193
Link
0
|
|
Replying To GaryMc82: "As I mentioned earlier you could probably make logical arguements as to why you shouldn't do a lot of things. As with Croker park and other projects which have gone ahead. If you are against it that's fine but if in years to come it is a success which I believe it will be then that's what really matters.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts:1034 - 26/10/2016 08:29:05
I have stated many solid reasons why Casement shouldn't be the Provincial home to Ulster GAA, but I have also backed that up with viable alternatives that could be reviewed, studied, costed and debated. Hell even by moving the Stadium out the Motorway to the Magherafelt roundabout ( End of the M22/M2 ) would make a massive improvement to travel & parking in all directions. This project is being pushed for non-GAA reasons, ignoring many issues, and that is why I am so opposed to this." Yes you have , and I have also stated that there are plenty of reasonable reasons why you wouldn't have any of the previously mentioned stadiums in the locations they are in but its about integrating them into the city and yes it may well cater for other sports too but that's to be encouraged if it benefits the community and the economy in the area which it will.
Of course there are other logical locations where you could build a perfectly good stadium and god knows it's easy to argue against it.
Look, I'm not saying you're wrong but it will go ahead and will be successful undoubtedly.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 26/10/2016 14:55:06
1929201
Link
0
|
|
Replying To gotmilk: "In Northern Ireland it grinds to a half after 6. Public transport in the North is shocking." Sorry got milk that's just nonsense, speaking as someone who lives in Belfast I can confirm translink have fitted their buses with headlights and while they may not be as frequent as during the day they still venture out onto the roads in the dark, even making it as far as casement and beyond
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 26/10/2016 15:16:14
1929212
Link
0
|
|
Millions to build a new stadium with a capacity the same as Clones !!!
If Clones was fitted with Floodlights, (and it beggars belief why this wasn't done when they were doing the various stages of development), it would cost a lot less than the cost of building a new stadium.
FrDougalMaguire (Cavan) - Posts: 152 - 26/10/2016 16:04:27
1929230
Link
0
|
|
Another mega elephant
Looks pretty though
But screw this investing in people...
We love our grand vanity projects, decreasing numbers being seen right across the board, an aging population now in Ireland, with a whole generation of young people who have been forced to leave Ireland
Yep!!! Lets be having another giant stadium!
Are you telling me that money wouldn't be better spent on the grass roots right across Ulster
It's yet another example of the huge sums being invested in bricks rather than people
It's a lovely looking stadium though
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 26/10/2016 16:18:28
1929232
Link
2
|
|
Replying To GaryMc82: "In terms of travel time and access via roads, Clones really is the extreme south of the Province, as it takes approximately as long to reach it as any other point. A key problem for fans around Ulster that the new Casement won't address either." Ok we clearly have different ideas of of what "extreme south" means which is funny considering we're both from the extreme north of Ireland.
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12123 - 26/10/2016 16:20:15
1929233
Link
2
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: "Another mega elephant
Looks pretty though
But screw this investing in people...
We love our grand vanity projects, decreasing numbers being seen right across the board, an aging population now in Ireland, with a whole generation of young people who have been forced to leave Ireland
Yep!!! Lets be having another giant stadium!
Are you telling me that money wouldn't be better spent on the grass roots right across Ulster
It's yet another example of the huge sums being invested in bricks rather than people
It's a lovely looking stadium though" its not the GAA's money its the Government's and they are not offering coaching funding. So its take it or leave it and im not surprised its been taken. it will provide employment and rejuvenation while the GAA can ponder on what to do with their own budget.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 26/10/2016 16:26:32
1929238
Link
0
|
|
Replying To bumpernut: "Sorry got milk that's just nonsense, speaking as someone who lives in Belfast I can confirm translink have fitted their buses with headlights and while they may not be as frequent as during the day they still venture out onto the roads in the dark, even making it as far as casement and beyond" As someone who lives outside of Belfast I can tell you that you can not get an ulster bus after 6 on any day of the week. The fact us culchies can't drive as far as casement and have to avail of public transport to get to it it will be a serious issue.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 26/10/2016 16:32:13
1929241
Link
0
|
|
Replying To GaryMc82: "In terms of travel time and access via roads, Clones really is the extreme south of the Province, as it takes approximately as long to reach it as any other point. A key problem for fans around Ulster that the new Casement won't address either." How would putting a new stadium in a green field site solve this, could Omagh's infrastructure deal with 35,000 fans coming for the games. Park and ride works for much bigger stadia than this (Allianz arena as an example) and the ticket price incorporates getting to the ground. The infrastructure around Andersonstown isn't great and traffic can be an issue but it would be better than Clones, Omagh or any proposed green field site.
The walk from finaghy train station to casement is roughly the same as Connolly to Croke so again that is another option for shipping people in and out.
Instead of rehashing your old posts just come out and be honest about your dislike of West Belfast and casement and sure we can all draw a line under it and see how the cards pan out, casement may not happen but there is a considerably higher chance of it going ahead than anything else proposed and if Ulster GAA can get a world class stadium for peanuts in essence does it matter if its on the moon.
Ulster finals were shipped down to Croke in the 2000's and you had people going in their tens of thousands and thats not even in the province, if the product is good and the venue is suitable people will come regardless of any parochial bias.
duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts: 175 - 26/10/2016 17:01:31
1929260
Link
0
|
|
Again Gary, I would have to say this is more of what you've already stated several times. What I'm asking is, why keep posting the same points?
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:975 - 26/10/2016 14:44:16
Because contrary to what some posters would have you believe, this Stadium/project is not approved yet, it is all a proposal. And by keeping the argument alive on here and in various active groups, there is a greater chance of more people understanding what better alternatives were overlooked.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/10/2016 18:09:11
1929287
Link
0
|
|
How would putting a new stadium in a green field site solve this, could Omagh's infrastructure deal with 35,000 fans coming for the games. Park and ride works for much bigger stadia than this (Allianz arena as an example) and the ticket price incorporates getting to the ground. The infrastructure around Andersonstown isn't great and traffic can be an issue but it would be better than Clones, Omagh or any proposed green field site.
Clones works, and has done for many years. Yes there are serious problems with Clones like Parking and facilities, yet this Casement proposal does not address all of those issues either, so why bother moving and wasting a fortune of money just to have similar issues in Belfast.
The walk from finaghy train station to casement is roughly the same as Connolly to Croke so again that is another option for shipping people in and out.
This would be a Provincial Stadium, not a National or International Stadium that requires Urban infrastructural facilities. Having a National Stadium in the Capital is one thing, especially when all road networks spike out of Dublin. But we are talking about a Provincial Stadium that will serve all 9 Counties in Ulster, and that is what has been ignored here.
Instead of rehashing your old posts just come out and be honest about your dislike of West Belfast and casement and sure we can all draw a line under it and see how the cards pan out, casement may not happen but there is a considerably higher chance of it going ahead than anything else proposed and if Ulster GAA can get a world class stadium for peanuts in essence does it matter if its on the moon.
I don't dislike West Belfast, I dislike the stupidity of this proposal and the worrying levels of poor planning in it to date. In saying that, Derry could be doing with Investment too, but it is nonsense to believe this Stadium will regenerate West Belfast, only government investment can do that.
Ulster finals were shipped down to Croke in the 2000's and you had people going in their tens of thousands and thats not even in the province, if the product is good and the venue is suitable people will come regardless of any parochial bias.
duckula20 (Antrim) - Posts:134 - 26/10/2016 17:01:31
Yeah, and why are they not still played there every year?
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 26/10/2016 18:19:40
1929292
Link
0
|
|
Replying To GaryMc82: "Again Gary, I would have to say this is more of what you've already stated several times. What I'm asking is, why keep posting the same points?
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:975 - 26/10/2016 14:44:16
Because contrary to what some posters would have you believe, this Stadium/project is not approved yet, it is all a proposal. And by keeping the argument alive on here and in various active groups, there is a greater chance of more people understanding what better alternatives were overlooked." i think you've worn the alternatives to death at this stage and while Casement is only a proposal it is one more proposal than anything you are talking about. what is the point in talking about something that isn't going to happen? if Casement is a non runner there will be no alternative, end of story.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 27/10/2016 08:58:25
1929394
Link
0
|
|
Replying To jimbodub: "Another mega elephant
Looks pretty though
But screw this investing in people...
We love our grand vanity projects, decreasing numbers being seen right across the board, an aging population now in Ireland, with a whole generation of young people who have been forced to leave Ireland
Yep!!! Lets be having another giant stadium!
Are you telling me that money wouldn't be better spent on the grass roots right across Ulster
It's yet another example of the huge sums being invested in bricks rather than people
It's a lovely looking stadium though" Its a capital project so the money cannot be diverted to coaching
bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 27/10/2016 09:41:15
1929408
Link
0
|
|
i think you've worn the alternatives to death at this stage and while Casement is only a proposal it is one more proposal than anything you are talking about. what is the point in talking about something that isn't going to happen? if Casement is a non runner there will be no alternative, end of story.
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts:976 - 27/10/2016 08:58:25
No alternatives were examined before or after the Initial Casement Park proposal, none!!..........nothing even remotely looked at.
Now I wouldn't give a rats arse if the Stadium was being built solely for Antrim GAA as a new home, I would say fair play ta ye boys. But It was clear during the publicity launch of the original proposal that this Stadium was being earmarked to serve a Provincial function.
Had the Ulster GAA looked at a wide variety of options with Ulster GAA fans in mind, and then determined and demonstrated Casement was by the best option, I would be happy that all avenues were examined and a choice was made for the long-term good of the travelling fans of Ulster, who will contribute the majority of financial support to Ulster GAA for the next 30+ years.
It is right to ask hard questions, especially when it appears nobody else has.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 27/10/2016 14:09:41
1929529
Link
0
|