For Football...

Feb and Mar - Stand-alone Provincial Competitions. Round Robin and Final.

Apr - Knockout Competition

May to Aug - All Ireland Round Robin and Semi Finals. Div 1A 8 teams. Div 1B 8 teams. Div 2 8 teams. Div 3 8 teams.

Sep and Oct - County Championships.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 13/10/2014 18:08:40    1663286

13/10/2014 18:08:40
tyroneed
For Football...
Feb and Mar - Stand-alone Provincial Competitions. Round Robin and Final.
Apr - Knockout Competition
May to Aug - All Ireland Round Robin and Semi Finals. Div 1A 8 teams. Div 1B 8 teams. Div 2 8 teams. Div 3 8 teams.
Sep and Oct - County Championships. Stand alone provincial competitions should help seed the all Ireland round robin
What would the knock out competition in April be?
Would you have any room for club games in Summer as its ignorant of and unfair to the majority of club players for them to play little of their main competitions in the main months of the season

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 13/10/2014 18:26:00    1663292

Ormondbannerman...Absolutely. I agree. Club games during the summer. My suggestion is totally to give more to the club game. Club games during the year but in addition to that cutting the county season short by a month and guaranteeing a time for the County Championships rather than the current setup of club players never knowing when that years county championship will be.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 13/10/2014 19:07:06    1663310

Look lads we all need to include a bit of reality. I've diverged onto round robin discussions as well which is nonsense really at the end of the day.

The FRC carried out a review. The best they could come up with was an attempt to re-align the provinces into blocks of 8 each. Round robins did not seem to carry much interest. From the report, there was a support for the provincial championships and rightly so.

1. Provincial Preliminary Rounds
2. Provincial Quarter-finals
3. Provincial Semi-finals & Qualifier Round 1
4. Provincial Finals & Qualifier Round 2
5. All-Ireland Round of 16*
6. All-Ireland Quarter-finals
7. All-Ireland Semi-finals
8. All-Ireland Final

* Provincial winners drawn at home to a qualifier county.
* Provincial runners-up draw against a qualifier county with a separate draw to determine the home team.

While the above might be viewed as a bit of a re-hash, it is a subtle change within the current structures that can bring fairness. The FRC proposal of blocks of 8 can be half implemented within it:
1 Ulster preliminary round loser and 1 Leinster preliminary round loser could join the Connaught qualifier section. These 2 preliminary round losers and the 2 Connaught quarter-final losers could play off in qualifier round 1. The two winners then advancing to take on the Connaught semi-final losers in qualifier round 2. These two winners then advancing into the Round of 16.

The 2 remaining Leinster preliminary round losers could joing the Munster qualifier section. These 2 preliminary round losers and the 2 Munster quarter-final losers could play off in qualifier round 1. The two winners then advancing to take on the Munster semi-final losers in qualifier round 2. These two winners then advancing into the Round of 16.

The 4 Ulster quarter-final losers could play off in qualifier round 1. The two winners then advancing to take on the Ulster semi-final losers in qualifier round 2. These two winners then advancing into the Round of 16.

The 4 Leinster quarter-final losers could play off in qualifier round 1. The two winners then advancing to take on the Leinster semi-final losers in qualifier round 2. These two winners then advancing into the Round of 16.

The above ensures counties do not parachute into other provincial championships but enters them into those provincial sections to provide two qualifiers from each section along with the the provincial finalists from each section for the Round of 16.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7888 - 13/10/2014 20:45:19    1663351

I see Jim Gavin's view is somewhat similar to what I was saying. Smart guy!

And yes absolutely worth updating championship format.

...


tyroneed: For Football...
Feb and Mar - Stand-alone Provincial Competitions. Round Robin and Final. Apr - Knockout CompetitionMay to Aug - All Ireland Round Robin and Semi Finals. Div 1A 8 teams. Div 1B 8 teams. Div 2 8 teams. Div 3 8 teams.Sep and Oct - County Championships.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 29/11/2014 11:16:46    1675443

dont agree with jim gavins view here
he says and most others harp on about teams training all year for two matches in the championship
well if you have a group format what do the them teams gain?
one extra match they will have 3 games and then they are out
hardly any differance and plaus the champions league groups are seeded to make sure the big teams get to the knockout
stages of the competition. so what would happen there would be
a situation where you will have from division 1, 2, 3 and 4
maybe kerry,meath,sligo and leitrim
how does this help leitrim? it means they have could loose the first two games and then already have no chance of
making it into the knockout stages and play a meaningless dead rubber game as their last one
thus the added game being rendered pointless.
at present they have far better excitement and something to play for playing in a connaught championship
game where a win would be huge for them and give them a day to remember and a big day in a semi final or final to look forward to
then if in qualifiers they have a far better chance of going on a run in the qualifiers depending on who they draw.
people seem to just always assume that we should take up a group championship because soccer and rugby do it
but it doesnt always work out the same for every sport

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 29/11/2014 12:33:26    1675451

This will not help bridge the massive gap between the likes of Leitrim and Kerry.The big problem,which has been the same since the GAAs inception,is the difference between each county - size,population,clubs,resources,facilities,tradition,honours,etc.Some have always been strong.Others sporadically.While there are quite a few who rarely,if ever,get to drink from the top table.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 29/11/2014 12:59:44    1675455

Jim Gavin wants change and I agree to an extent. Scrap the pre season cups and replace it with the league. Play the provincials after the league and then a champions league style format for the championship. Teams need to be guaranteed more games for the championship. 3 each in the group stage is better than 2 in the championship but if they played home and away everyone would be guaranteed 5.

The GAA also need to double their grants and try and get some kind of tax allowance for their players who work a lot on top of their training.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 29/11/2014 16:31:40    1675474

As you all know, I'm not a fan of round robins. Although a Champs League could replace the NFL.
Strongest 4 in each prov form 4 prov groups - C, L, U & M.
Remaining weaker 16 split along prov lines also - W (L4), X (U4), Y (L3U1), Z (M2C2).
Each CLUM team plays 4 matches away against one other CLUM group, and 4 at home against another.
The weaker WXYZ teams play a similar 8 matches against other WXYZ groups.
After 8 matches, top two in the CLUM groups play head-to-head in 4 prov finals, losers to AI Last 12; and top two in WXYZ groups go head-to-head for 4 remaining places in Last12.
Prov Champs to AI QFs (4 byes as now).

I would prefer a diluted KO to round robin - to offset prov imbalance - go for this 'Treble Chance' -
Keep existing AI structure, with the following changes:
1) 16 losers from Qual Rds 1 & 2 advance to Rd 3 (3rd chance).
2) 8 winners in Qual Rd 2 to KO Tommy Murphy Cup (no 3rd chance).
3) 8 still unbeaten play 3 KO rounds to determine 'Champoons Cup' winner after 4 prov winners - losers in quantities of 4, 2 & 1, enter Qualifier Rds 4, 5 & 6 (latter AI QFs).
4) Therefore, Qualifier Rds 3, 4, 5 & AI QFs, have quantities of 16, 12, 8 & 6.
5) 3 AI QF winners join the one unbeaten prov champ (Champions Cup winner) in the AI SFs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 29/11/2014 17:11:54    1675483

but weaker teams will never get anywhere in a group style championship
because say leitrim happened to beat kerry if they then lost to both meath and sligo after that
they dont even get out of the group the same as if they lost all games
at least if they were to beat galway or mayo in connaught they would progress to the next stage and a possible connaught final
you would have have very small crowds going to group games aswell as it wouldnt catch the peoples mind.
look at the league at present without marketing it is getting small crowds.
it would mean a lot more for tipp to beat cork in munster like they nearly did this year as they would have knocked them out
as oppossed to a group stage game where cork could easily just get through ahead of them depending of other results.
if they are going to do away with provincial championships as the championship
then the easiest solution would be an open draw for four championships similiar to what we have except
4 championships of 8 countys and the 4 winners make the all ireland quarter finals
and let the qualifiers run as the same
that way you would have differant teams playing each other every year
and have no seedings just an open draw

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 29/11/2014 17:17:28    1675485

i see him gavin himself sayign the national league should be got rid of..i tend to agree

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 29/11/2014 20:09:11    1675521

The revamp of the championship is discussed here continuously by the same people. Jim Gavin says something needs to be done and we have a load of new posters. The cult of the GAA manager is strong.

Its all the same idea. Keep the provincials knockout, Curtail the league, two tier championship with backdoor entry to the main championship for the B championship winners. ROund robin All Irealand and B championship.

What is it about the GAA that the most sensible solution cannot be implemented.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1137 - 30/11/2014 21:50:01    1675690

people don't seem to realise that some of the changes are going to affect clubs as well, with availability of their county players, THINK OF THE CLUBS AS WELL

kerryluck (Kerry) - Posts: 2517 - 01/12/2014 09:55:39    1675706

Once again I would definitely be in favour of big changes to the championship format but I can't understand why the Champions League format is so frequently suggested. 6 group games would be too many and would inevitably lead to plenty of meaningless games in the latter rounds, the World Cup format is a far better option in my opinion because nearly every group game is of vital importance.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 01/12/2014 10:41:28    1675724

Tirawleybaron
What good would a champions league style do for Gaa?
All it does in soccer is make the stronger teams get an easier passage to the quarter finals as they won't meet.
If they are going to change the championship it would need to be to improve it not to make it worse on weaker teams

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 01/12/2014 10:45:23    1675726

The provincial championships as stand alone competitions would be the death of them. Simple as that.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 01/12/2014 12:19:32    1675738

To Tirawleybaron -

As I've said before - you make a lot of sense - something that is lacking with the powers that be. You are right - the macro overall options are limited (KO, round robin, double-chance etc) - it would be only the finer points that require detailing. Go figure.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 01/12/2014 17:39:23    1675809

There is clearly support for a revamp of the championship of some sort but still not allowed.

62% at Congress voted for a round Robin idea for Leinster and yet it still doesn't go through.

The setup of the championship is illogical. And even when change is voted for it still stays the same.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 02/03/2015 13:17:24    1698293

A simple solution to bring balance to the AI Championship - keep the existing structure with the following few changes:

1) 8 Qual Rd 1 and 8 Prov SF losers in Rd 2; 8 Qual Rd 1 and 8 Rd 2 winners to Rd 3

2) 4 Prov losing Finalists to 20-team Qual Rd 3

3) 4 Prov Champs playoff - only 2 winners earn 'front door' AI QF berths; 2 losers to Qual Rd 4

4) 10 Rd 3 winners to 12-team Rd 4; 6 Rd 4 winners earn the remaining 6 AI QF berths.

Note - 28 teams (from above) are guaranteed a minimum 3 matches without 'dead rubbers' and round robins.
4 remaining teams (Muns/Conn Prov SF byes) could go head-to-head in 'two legged SFs' to ensure minimum 3 matches as well.

Also - 8 Qual Rd 1 winners could remain segregated throughout the remaining Qualifiers (Rds 3, 4), with the Final 2 playing for the T Murphy Cup in Rd 4 and earning 1 of the 6 'back door' AI QF berths.

None of you seem to like this - and the GAA won't even read it.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2632 - 05/03/2015 18:22:24    1699563

It's the annual debate. As always there's plenty of options and many different opinions. It is bizarre to have so many games in a secondary competition compared to the main event.

Currently a league winner will have 9 games and 7 or 8 games on average in the championship. A middle of the road team will have 7 league games and probably 3 games at best in the championship. After 3 rounds of the current league, I think about 2 more games would be enough for most teams ahead of the championship.

A reduction of games in the league should be at the introduction of group games in the championship. With a group stage in the championship there are a number of options:

a) Provincial groups:
Munster - 1 group of 6 ... Provincial final from top 2.
Connaught - 1 group of 5 ... Provincial final from top 2.
Leinster - 1 group of 6 and 1 group of 5 ... Provincial semi-finals from top 2.
Ulster + London - 2 groups of 5 ... Provincial semi-final from top 2.

Have the 4 provincial runners-up play-off against the 4 Leinster and Ulster semi-final losers for a place in the AI quarter-finals. Provincial winners straight into the quarter-finals to take on the play-off winners.

A middle of the road team could have 5 regular league games and 4 championship group games. It's a better balance of more games to the main competition.

b) 8 groups of 4 (not on a home and away basis, that'd be a bit much.)
This is another format thrown about. Again, the league could be run over 5 regular league games. The provincial championships could be retained but seperate to the championship. The championship then in national groups of 4 could be played after the provincial series. The main advantage of a good provincial championship would be more games ahead of the All-Ireland championship. Your standard top 2 teams in the group advancing then to the knock-out stages.

Your average middle of the road team would have 5 regular league games, 1 provincial championship match and 3 AI championship group games.

Whatever anyone's preference, a move to a reduction of league games to group format should come into place. Late April to June are good month's for championship group games. Knock-out stuff then and all that from July onwards as normal.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7888 - 05/03/2015 21:08:06    1699629