frankbhoy77
County: Antrim
Posts: 1162

Are we Cousins?

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 25/10/2014 21:19:37    1667205

Horsebox77
County: Kerry
Posts: 1929

1667205


frankbhoy77
County: Antrim
Posts: 1162

Are we Cousins?

I hear Banjos ! I see Canoes! Jon Voight and Burt Reynolds spring to mind then I see Dead people ..... Deliver u s from Evil )

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 25/10/2014 21:48:25    1667213

Ulster's competitiveness is it's strength and advantage. Sure if Derry hadn't lost to Longford, Ulster would have had 4 All-Ireland quarter-finalists.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 25/10/2014 21:52:22    1667216

I dont think you will see 4 ulster quarter finalists next year, or any other year for that mater. I think 3 is about right. there will always be one team waiting somewhere who are up for a big big game of their year, just like horse racing. Consistency in the back door is something that is a bit of a rarity.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 26/10/2014 11:32:52    1667250

Outside of the Ulster finalists, you'd still expect 2 of the other 7 to make it to the quarter-finals. Derry lost to Donegal. It's no excuse for not regrouping and getting through their next game. Ulster appears to be in a strong enough position to have 4 quarter-finalists.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 27/10/2014 14:06:38    1667461

legendrix,

4 out of 8 quarter finalists from ulster leaves 4 to be filled by dublin, mayo, kerry and cork. That means that galway, kildare and meath will not figure in the last 8. That seems unlikely, you would expect at least one of them to make it would you not??

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 27/10/2014 15:16:00    1667482

In fairness Leinster has been open in the past , remember Dublin v Meath in the 1991 1st round,

but the reality is Kerry and cork don't want an open draw - can you imagine if the met in the first round, one of them would have to travel up the country in the 1st round qualifier - that can't happen!! Have they ever played a 1st or 2nd round back door game !!
Kerry ( as our Roscommon poster) said they can plan for august each year.... no other county except for Cork can do that... Kieran Donaghy went for an operation in the middle of the Munster Championship - knowing that it didn't matter as , he would be back for the serious stuff later in the yr......

its totally unfair..., but then it's unfair that Kerry play puke football and get away with it.... but that's another story!!!

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1676 - 27/10/2014 15:45:39    1667498

Cuchulain35

You should check your facts before posting incorrect info.

Kerry agreed to an open draw and that's exactly what happened for 2015.

Some Ulster posters on here cannot disguise the dislike for all things Kerry.

Lets say we ended up in the qualifiers in round 2 and had to travel to the Gaelic Grounds,
Would you beat us?

doubt it.

You also should watch the final again Kerry didn't play puke football the held there shape.
They didn't commit every player into attack which is what Donegal want.
we played our defenders as defenders and closed down the central channel.

westkerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1250 - 27/10/2014 16:21:38    1667509

cuchulainn35
County: Armagh
Posts: 1060

1667498
but the reality is Kerry and cork don't want an open draw

It's the Munster Council that don't want the open draw. They want to ensure a big gate at their provincial final and not have a situation like a few years ago when it's Cork v Clare in front of an empty Gaelic Grounds.

Leinster should definitely go back to the open draw. I don't know why they decided to do away with it when they did.

beir_bua (Kildare) - Posts: 746 - 27/10/2014 17:17:44    1667532

I think structured draws ensure a low key start to the championship, I feel that this needs to be looked at as it increases apathy. I am emigrating next month however I already making plans to ensure I get back for the match against Donegal/Tyrone. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think there are many counties supporters that are excited for their 1st round match.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 28/10/2014 13:34:33    1667741

westkerry the munster draw was not open. An open draws means every team can meet each other in the first round of the championship. Kerry and Cork got a bye into the semi final.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 28/10/2014 14:56:51    1667783

Here is a scenario Kerry lose their opening game and go into the 2nd round of the qualifiers.
Donegal beat Tyrone then lose to Armagh and go in to the 1st round of the qualifiers. so this means donegal have to play 3 extra games than kerry to win the all Ireland.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 28/10/2014 15:01:26    1667786

Would giving Munster prior year SF losers the byes be better ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2608 - 28/10/2014 16:16:24    1667816

For munster draw out the first four team for first round and then the last two teams out get semi final spot in either side of the draw. Thats an open and fair draw.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 28/10/2014 16:44:42    1667824

roundball


HandyMoran
County: Roscommon

New York and London would be tougher games than Clare and Waterford plus mayo would be tougher test than cork.plus Munster is a hurling province

This presumably is the same Clare that ran Kerry to 3 points and Kildare to 1, will be playing Division 3 football next year and are attracting All Ireland medal winners to their ranks? Or maybe it's another Clare who are a softer touch than eh, New York...

In fairness roundball, it should be quite clear to an observant fellow such as yourself, that handy wouldn't know a whole lot about New York or London either... Now it is were Meath, or Kildare, or another Leinster-based team the dubs have encountered over the last few years, you might have a different story.

Last year the team his ire was directed at was Mayo, this year it was Donegal, then Kerry when they were deemed the best in the country. You should see a pattern emerging...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 28/10/2014 16:48:07    1667827

westkerry
County: Kerry
Posts: 456

1667509
Cuchulain35

You should check your facts before posting incorrect info.
Kerry agreed to an open draw and that's exactly what happened for 2015.
Some Ulster posters on here cannot disguise the dislike for all things Kerry.
Lets say we ended up in the qualifiers in round 2 and had to travel to the Gaelic Grounds,
Would you beat us?
doubt it.
You also should watch the final again Kerry didn't play puke football the held there shape.
They didn't commit every player into attack which is what Donegal want.
we played our defenders as defenders and closed down the central channel.

Westkerry….It should ALWAYS be open. Hardly worth shouting about it for next yr…
In Ulster I think it has engineered the competitiveness for us all. Ulster is an open draw every year and every year it's hard to bet on an outright winner. Donegal will be favourites next year (rightly so) but if they win, it will be the hardest way. They will have to beat Tyrone, Armagh, Derry or Down, then any one Fermanagh/Antrim/Cavan/Monaghan in the final. Probably Cavan or Monaghan realistically. Four tough games before getting to the quarter finals. Kerry have to play Cork and another team who aren't close enough to present a real threat.

I personally don't dislike Kerry or begrudge their success. Its deserved. I do, however, take issue with posts like yours. Firstly on the assumption you would win an early round qualifier in Armagh….Why? You have never played a championship in any ulster venue to my knowledge (I can be corrected on that). Secondly, Kerry deserve the same criticism as any side when they win Sam. This year it wasn't won using the free flowing attacking play with wonderful kick passing that Spillane tells us about. It was counter attacking, physical and quite cynical. It was what was needed to win. No more, no less.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 28/10/2014 17:33:07    1667839

@ beir_bua - exactly. Way too much of Munster seeding when Leinster apply a seeding as well. It's up to every province to get their own house in order. Leinster semi-finalists have a cushy enough game to ensure provincial semi-finals in what is the familiar surrounds of croke park for them. We're moving again from the point of Ulster's competitiveness being it's strength and advantage. Where's the problem with it. The cream always rises to the top.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 28/10/2014 19:12:54    1667871

the point we are making is that if Kerry and Cork met in the first round and Kerry get beaten, Donegal get beaten by Kerry away to Donegal in a first round qualifier and out of the championship in July. But Kerry are never given that problem anymore. Even if in Leinster teams are seeded its wrong but if they lose the quarter final clash they go into the first round as well. Its all weighed in the favour of Kerry and Cork.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 28/10/2014 19:54:55    1667888

Donegal have won 3 of the last 4 Ulster's.
Kerry have won 3 of the last 4 Munster's.
Dublin Region have won 4 of the last 4 Leinster's.
Mayo have won 4 of the last 4 Connaught's.

In the noughties: Ulster titles: Armagh 6. Tyrone 4.
Leinster titles: Dublin Region 6.
Munster titles: Kerry 6. Cork 4.
Connaught: Galway 5.

The success is different provinces isn't too different. Starting in a provincial quarter-final opposed to a semi-final is being over exagerrated. No disrespect to Waterford but if they get a bye to the Munster semi-final, they are by-passing Q1 by default. A bar is being set within the current Munster seeding in that if you make a Munster final, you avoid the quarter-finals in the following year. For arguments sake, if Kerry had drawn Cork in the Munster semi-finals next year, the loser will have been starting in the quarter-final the year after.

Ulster 2014 performances:
Donegal lost in the final to Kerry.
Monaghan lost to Donegal in the Ulster final and to the capital in the All-Ireland quarter-finals.
Armagh lost to Monaghan in the Ulster semi-final and Donegal in the AI quarter-final.
Antrim lost to Donegal in the Ulster semi-final and Limerick in Q2A.
Cavan lost to Armagh in the Ulster quarter-final and Roscommon in Q2B.
Down lost to Tyrone in the Ulster preliminary round and Kildare in Q2B.
Tyrone lost to Monaghan in in the Ulster quarter-final and Armagh in Q2B.
Fermanagh lost to Antrim in the Ulster quarter-final and Laois in Q1A.
Derry lost to Donegal in the Ulster quarter-final and Longford in Q1A.

Donegal beat Monaghan and Monaghan's quarter-final winning opponent.
Armagh lost to both Ulster finalists. The capital beat Monaghan but not Donegal.
Antrim bowed out to Limerick.
Cavan bowed out to Roscommon.
Down bowed out to Kildare.
Tyrone lost to Monaghan and then were knocked out by the Armagh team that also lost to Monaghan.
Fermanagh bowed out to Laois.
Derry bowed out to Longford.

Ulster is a competitive province. This is it's strenght and advantage. It had no part to play in some counties not making the All-Ireland quarter-finals. If you lose, it's obviously not your year and it's time to move on. Cork for exampled lost out to both Kerry and Mayo. Their year is over. They took their defeat like men and moved on.

If there is to be any changes:
1) Ulster have power over their own championship structure.
2) Congress is their for any motions regards changes to the All-Ireland championship.

The cream will rise to the top regardless. Winter well.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7865 - 28/10/2014 21:33:04    1667922