12/10/2014 09:47:40
kerryluck
County: Kerry
Posts: 2272

1662786
if Kerry have unfair advantage?
in hurling why did galway ask to go into Leinster championship to get harder games?
why back in 2006 were people saying kerry were at a disadvantage because they were not tested?

Exactly. Even this year, people say it was the replay game against Mayo that brought Kerry on. Had Sheehan's late free the first day gone over the bar, we would have been under-cooked going into the final.

Talk of Kerry in Ulster is nonsense. We were knocked out of Munster in the '09 semi-finals and negotiated Q2, Q3 and Q4 on route to an All-Ireland title.

2002: All-Ireland finalist despite not making Munster final.
2006: All-Ireland champions after losing a Munster final.
2008: All-Ireland finalist after losing a Munster final.
2009: All-Ireland champions despite not making Munster final.
Ulster 2000-2009: Armagh 6 titles and Tyrone 4 titles.

Had Kerry been in Ulster from '00 to '09 I'd imagine a mixture of Ulster titles and qualifier campaigns. Talk of this is nonsense so I'll stop here regards this. Pure comical blarney begrudgery talk. It's like the gift that keeps on giving. Purely comical and exactly the talk I looked forward to in the lead up to the final as it can only mean we've succeeded in landing the title.

People ignore the rise of Limerick during the noughties. Had they been in another province they would have won a provincial title. Shall we discuss how clubs might win a county title if they are participating in someone else's county championship?

Hurling talk. Kerry hurling is above all counties in Connaught bar Galway and above all counties in Ulster bar Antrim. Kerry have not shirked our hurling responsibilities. We were the victims of an unfair 1B play-off this year. We're hurling away as well as best we can. Ciarraí abú! Winter well lads and enjoy the club championships.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 12/10/2014 11:33:58    1662798

I think as the kingpins of the game we should be allowed straight into the semi finals each year.
Ulster football is terrible to watch. In the present time none of the ulster teams would cause us any trouble, the only positive would be fitzy might have a few extra games to fine tune the team before the real action starts. No problem for us if we had to play them boys.

Lovers of kerry football all over the world would sigh in dismay if we had play in ulster championship and to resort to similiar tactics against Donegal in the final, every time we played. Agreed Munster is too easy for us but so would Connaught. Dubs might give us a game in leinster these days but before long they will fade away and wont be seen for 20 years.

Whatever province ye want to put us in it doesn't matter as other counties will never reach kerrys success Simple as that.we are too good for most..most of the time.. if not all of the time!!

ky4sam2014 (Kerry) - Posts: 32 - 12/10/2014 11:40:12    1662804

Agree with everything you say Sam.Actually for the good of football in Tipp,Lim,Wat and Clare,a changing of the championship would be a breath of fresh air.They must be sick at the sight of Kerry/Cork.There are,and always have been good footballers in these 4 counties.Just not enough at any 1 time to beat Kerry.It must be disheartening to see your county being pulled out of the hat to play Kerry every year.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 12/10/2014 11:49:20    1662811

Kingdomboy,i think you are being disrespectful to the likes of Meath/Kildare in saying theres no doubt that Dublin will win the next 10 Leinster championships.Did u see how we folded like a cheap suit when Donegal got on top of us?If we have a bad day,theres every chance we could be beaten i n Leinster.It is only the last 10 years that we have such dominance of the Province.
In regards to the 2 counties you mentioned,i believe they will be back as being a force over the next couple of years.Kildare and Meath are 2 of the fastest growing populations and have been for over a decade.I dont believe they play more soccer and rugby than any other county.They are 2 football mad counties.A lot of work going on underage.Dont forget Meath were the dominant force in Leinster from 86-99,winning 4 All Irelands and numerous Leinsters.Kildare chipped in with a few Leinsters also,and were only the width of a crossbar from reaching the All Ireland final in 2010.I would have little worries about these 2 traditional heavyweights.They will get it together and start challenging Dublin again very soon.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 12/10/2014 12:01:20    1662816

There is a fierce amount of arrogance being shown by some of the Kerry supporters on here. There is no comparison between Kildare/Meath and the other 4 Munster counties. Kildare and Meath, similar to alot of Ulster counties work cyclically and will produce some very good teams that can challenge anyone. Limerick had a good team in the mid 2000's but they did nothing outside of Munster. Pointing to that Limerick team to illustrate the health of Munster football seems desperate indeed.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 12/10/2014 13:55:19    1662845

Ky4sam2014
I think you are having a joke my dear man and only for Donegal gifting Kerry a goal who knows who would have win To me Kerry had all the luck on the day , same against Mayo and with a little bit of help from the ref.
Now it's only two years ago when Donegal beat Kerry in the Q final and a Kerry friend gave me the Kerryman to read as I wanted to see what they had to say about Donegal So enough , Sean Kelly ( not the ex GAA president) had this to say ::::: yes we DO HAVE PROBLEMS WITH NORTHERN TEAMS. I suppose that was after loosing Finals to Armagh ,TYRONE and quarterfinals to Down and Donegal in a ten year span.
You think that Ulster teams won't cause you problems next year::: be very careful on that. I'm sure next year Donegal would love to get another crack at Kerry, and so would Down / TYRONE and even the new emerging Armagh
As regards having to play a similar style to what ye done in the All Ireland Final ::: tough luck. You should really have a good idea what the Ulster championship is like now and so should the Kerry players.
Even with the returning T Walsh and the Gooch I still don't think Kerry is in front of the pack , very little separates Donegal/ Kerry/ Mayo for that matter and how good DUBLIN will be next year is the big Question. Just because Kerry were successful against a blanket defence once doesn't mean it will be repeated next year. To rejigger your memory Donegal got 12 scores while Kerry got 11
But to me when you play Kerry the Ulster way is the only way as Kerry well knows ----- found it hard to score against Armagh in 2002, TYRONE in 2003 Donegal in 2012 and again this year.
Will be always confident of a good Ulster side putting it up to Kerry and beating more often than not as the Kerry poster says we will winter well and we will really trive again when we get a bit of sun on our backs

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 12/10/2014 14:43:07    1662858

I think old KY has thrown a proverbial wind up hand grenade in there THOUGH there is no doubt that many Kerry GAA people DO actually think like that and believe it. They are still of the opinion that their defeats to Ulster sides over the past 15 years or so have been down to other factors OTHER than the opposition actually being better than them. There is a total denial mode, seen in Kerry GAA folk like Spillane, that there are other good footballers around Ireland who will defeat them on the pitch. Look at the excuses put up by Kerry when beaten by Ulster teams; TOO ROUGH, TOO DIRTY, TOO PUKE; TOO WET; TOO DRY; TOO MUCH SNOW; THE OFFICIALS; THE PROVISIONALS; THE SUN, THE MOON AND THE STARS. It has just been sour grapes, partitionism and whingeing most of the time.
While they ground put a result against them in 03 Tyrone in 05 and 08 played Kerry off the park while Armagh beat them with great players like McConville, Clark, McDonnell, Marsden etc. There is NO doubt that Kerry and Cork have a handy draw every season in Munster as seen again this year and they wouldn't have half the titles they did if they played in Ulster. Furthermore, and many outside Ulster still haven' a clue how tough it was for Ulster sides from 1970 - 1990 and the atmosphere and conditions they played in. Many time you were literally putting your life at risk with a GAA bag or hurl in your hand; the graveyards up North and memorials in many GAA grounds are testament to that. That is something that is NEVER recognised or just paid lip service to outside Ulster.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9703 - 12/10/2014 15:28:12    1662860

Hey S.O.E. what a bitter little poster you are, coming from a county with only 2 all-Irelands you have a lot to say, begrudgery is your lot, winter well on that, we will winter well on Sam, back home amongst the lakes and mountains, title o. 37 and counting.

mlcollins (Kerry) - Posts: 440 - 12/10/2014 15:33:34    1662866

Kerry and the Ulster Region is a battle to go one way and then the other. To be expected from a good battle. The last 6 champions have not made a final in the following year. 3 bowing out at quarter-finals and 3 at semi-finals. We'll winter well! Ciarraí abú!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 12/10/2014 15:34:07    1662867

Good post legend. Indeed it has been a very enjoyable tussle the past few years and you will find few, if any Gaels in Ulster, who would deny that Kerry deserved their win a few weeks back. Ulster sides don't look for excuses, they just dust themselves down and get on with it. I wish some of your fellow county people would learn the same respect and humility and put the bitterness and partitionism to one side for a change when playing Ulster teams. I have to be honest and say that Kerry once had massive respect in Ulster which has been lost the past while because of some of the behaviour and comments coming from your county.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9703 - 12/10/2014 15:43:51    1662870

Of course Ulsterman it has nothing to do with the nouveau riche attitude from posters in the North and that's not even mentioning the belligerent and cynical behaviour of some of yere supporters and players, Armagh and tyrone take a bow. That chip on your shoulder just gets bigger and bigger Ulsterman.

mlcollins (Kerry) - Posts: 440 - 12/10/2014 15:58:56    1662878

Nouveau Riche!! Another cracking excuse thought up by a Kerryman Jack O'Connor who couldn't understand why these Nordies hadn't followed the usual GAA plan and lay down to Kerry BEFORE games. Another whinge by Kerry to hide the fact that Tyrone played them off the park at football and they just couldn't hack it. We could hear the crying and yapping all the way from Kerry. 'Why couldn't these Nordies just be like those nice compliant Mayo and Cork people who know their place and roll over when we say so'. If that's nouveau riche mlcollins I will have that on the menu every day of the week. Taking of behaviour of fans and teams alike: wasn't it Kerry GAA people who ran to Joe Duffy and Liveline after the Derrytresk match complaining that the Nordies had the audacity and cheek to stand up to them?

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9703 - 12/10/2014 16:26:16    1662885

Ulstermn
Tipp have four All Irelands only won less than the two leading Ulster counties. For the past twenty years your province has been very competitive. However no Ulster county won an All Ireland until the GAA was almost 50 years old. By then four of the Munster Counties had won the All Ireland (ironically were the last to record their first one) and all had appeared in an All Ireland Final. By contrast, except for occasional interventions by Antrim and Armagh, Cavan and Monaghan had a clear run up in the North until about the mid fifties. So Ulster has not always been the hot bed it is now.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 12/10/2014 16:27:44    1662886

Oldtour: I know that and no one from Ulster is claiming that the province has been the hotbed of anything. It does appear however that ANY National success coming North whether it be county or club level is really begrudged from some Gaels and many within the media south of the border. Look at the double standards that are being applied at the minute. Kerry have been excused their defensive football and negative cynicism because the ends justify the means for some people, in other words 'we don't care how you beat Ulster sides as long as you beat them'. Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal have been hammered from the south for using the same tactics but all of a sudden Eamon Fitzmaurice and Kerry are tactical geniuses??? As Joe Brolly said last week, 'it's only called puke football when Ulster sides use it'. Likewise look at the difference in disciplinary procedures. We haven't heard a dickeybird about any CCCC hearings after the Kerry/Mayo brawl but Cavan and Armagh were crucified for their handbags stuff before their Ulster Championship match. It is nauseating two faced hypocrisy of the worst kind and TWO Associations now effectively exist on the island with different rules and standards being applied North and South; the facts and figures are there in front of us.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9703 - 12/10/2014 16:42:11    1662895

Audacity and cheek to stand up as you say in footballing terms is of course what the Gaa is all about, but sure you can't beat the Northern default psyche called REVISIONISM, you're an old hand at it Ulsterman and regards of yere views of us, it never mattered to us, the only thing that matters down here is winning.

mlcollins (Kerry) - Posts: 440 - 12/10/2014 16:56:13    1662901

Oh the hypocrisy mlcollins! I thought the Kerry mantra was always the 'method' in which you win; sure are you not the self styled arisotocrats of football who showed the rest of the universe the WAY to win games? Now all of a sudden it's ONLY about winning??? Oh my how the worm has turned down in Kerry majestic football land. In the land of the blind the one eyed man is King! Revisonism indeed!

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9703 - 12/10/2014 17:07:42    1662906

Kerry or cork have the same advantage, so maybe the title of the thread should reflect this. It is also worth investigating why cork havent excelled in the later stages in the competition the same way that kerry have to balance this thread.

Fall out from the final, would include

Brolly's refusal to acknowledge kerry winning fair and square
Spillane making a wee bit of a show of himself on the sunday game, cream rising to the top etc. I would disagree with his assessment. Kerry won a very very tactical game, and they did what they needed to do (very fairly and within the rules btw), but it was not an add for the good old days, no mater how much he tried to dress it up.

Looking beyond to 2015,

Can kerry keep the thing going and get to the semis and final, perhaps winning it
Can donegal steer the ship to at least august again
Will donegal's tactical game affect how the dubs play next year, their defense will no doubt tighten up no end after this year

The third point in the list is the biggest point in my head.

I dont think it maters too much if donegal play 4 games or 2 games in ulster next year, it will all be about how teams will handle a reinvented dublin team, and a kerry team who will no doubt have 'wintered well' and are out of their famous transition of this year.

All to look forward to. For now it is the club championships.

Winter well everyone

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 12/10/2014 17:27:35    1662911

Ulsterman, the description of Aristocrat is one that has been bestowed upon us down through history because of our success and tradition but as you are aware the game throughout the decades has evolved where new systems of play have challenged Kerry's superiority, Dublin in the 50's and 70's, Down in the 60's and tyrone in the noughties and Kerry have modified and adapted their game plan and style, hence 37 all-Irelands but of course one has to have the raw material to pursue same, the skill levels, the technical abilities, the tactical awareness and intelligence to be successful in the first place and by the way I don't know what definition or interpretation of the meaning of Aristocrat up in nordie land but down here in the Republic it means all powerful and denotes exalted hierarchy and not the sleveen implication you posted but at the end of the day we are what we are and you are what you are. Re: your glib comment re winning, it's all about winning, show me a good loser and i'll show you a loser, there is no nobility in losing, it's all about winning and again I repeat hence 37 all-Irelands, such is life, live with it.

mlcollins (Kerry) - Posts: 440 - 12/10/2014 19:53:49    1662959

It's usually a challenger that will come in with something new. There's nothing unusual about that. How teams adapt then says a lot about them. 5 All-Irelands from 00 to 09 was hardly a cause for much change. Adopting a plan within 3 weeks for 1 game isn't exactly a seismic change. We'll winter well! Ciarraí abú! ;)

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 12/10/2014 20:10:16    1662965

Micollins
I am not a little bitter poster but I must let you know a few things.
In 2003 as I was about to head back to DUBLIN for the AI semi final Armagh vDonegal and I was talking to two Kerrymen here in London ---- they said to me that they hoped we beat Armagh as if we don't they might as well play the All Ireland in Landstown Road.
Now I never saw so many bitter Kerry people here in London at that time---- TYRONE in my book really sickened them in that semi final
What I found out from them was that they beg rugged Armagh and TYRONE their All Ireland wins in 02/03. That was the first for those counties , yet the county with around 34 All Irelands begrugged them their victories. Now I'm not saying all Kerry people were like that but a good few were. The first I found out about Kerry and their football was in , I think 1972. I did not know much about them then as I had not mixed a lot with them then as a lot of emigrants tended to hang out with people from their own Counties.
But I was working with some at this stage and it was around the time Offally beat them in the AI. Now these boys could not understand how could a county like Offally beat Kerry I don't think they understood that Offally or indeed any other county could produce as good as footballers as Kerry If you don't believe me come over here and find out for yourself from people outside of Ulster as regards the attitude of some Kerry people here as regards football
Now Oldtourman you are right in what you are saying and I pointed this out in a post a few weeks ago::: first Ulster titles for Tyrone1956 Derry 1958Down 1959 and finally Donegal in 1972. Now I put a lot of this down to partition as it affected the six counties big time and I also said that Partition affected Donegal big time. Now a poster read me wrong and said that the troubles did not affect Donegal but what I said was partition and I'm talking about the 50/60 years after the state was founded As I grew up in Donegal in the 50's60's I know what I'm talking about. But can you not see the progress that we've made in Ulster over the last 25 years and we must have won half our titles in the last 25 years As you rightly say MONAGHAN and Cavan were the big two in Ulster , especially Cavan ( another county who were well able to serve it up to Kerry back then) but their power diminished as Down, TYRONE, Derry Armagh and Donegal began dominating Ulster but we still have the best championship in my book, Attendences up again last year and probably again next year. The other thing is teams that won AI years ago and there not heard tell of now, Wexford ,Louth , Roscommon Limerick etc.The future brigh :: the future's Ulster type football and the greatest GAA county in Ireland has successfully copied the system

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 12/10/2014 20:21:15    1662974