After reading all the reasons why Kerry have unfairly advanced in and eventually won so many All Irelands I have come to the decision that the unjust, cheating, manipulating, soft All Ireland winning County of Kerry should be humble and simply withdraw from entering into the All Ireland Championship in the future. That would make many posters happy it seems.

lostintime (USA) - Posts: 533 - 14/10/2014 21:14:59    1663756

On second thought, Kerry should withdraw from the league as well. If they do this, can the remainder of us draft their players to our panels?

lostintime (USA) - Posts: 533 - 14/10/2014 21:17:45    1663757

But clearly your system explanation is flawless. Have you used this to explain results in other sports?

Seems the 9 O'Clock watershed doesn't apply. ...

Anyways, had tried to post just to thank you for your kind words Corrxxx and answer your question - that is, that the farm donkey is used locally for its unmatched logic but due to an incident outside our control isn't available today. However I am not sure of the sincerity of your post now having read your more recent posts where you have your grammar police hat on. Tell me, are you the smartest person in Kerry? Bet they don't tell jokes about you.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 14/10/2014 21:28:08    1663760

lostintime i totally agree with you

wfkerry (USA) - Posts: 933 - 14/10/2014 21:48:29    1663768

Kingdom boy1
What a stupid remark , the point I was trying to make is::::teams in the six counties of Ireland (NorthernIreland ) were at a big disadvantage for at least close on 70 years since 1921 up to around 1990. How do you think Kerry would have fancied trying to train and prepare a county team in a place which in reality was a War Zone ( 1969-- to around the early 90's. )) Have you ever read about all the discrimation that went on there, on education ever read what grants the Catholic schools got compared to the Protestant schools. ?? The bad housing conditions that existed there and if you got in trouble ( political) your card was marked so no hope of a job Our county ground is named after Sean McCumhaill and so is the Ballybofey club Read up about him , how he came to live in Donegal, how he got into bad health as a result of imprisoment in the Six Counties.
It's because of people like him , and there are many that we have such a great provincial championship in Ulster, that after all what went on over the years teams from the Six Counties can go down to DUBLIN and compete with the best.
The first time I saw Kerry was in 1981 and they done a tour of Ulster It was a very turbulent time with the Hunger strike on at the time and I saw them in Ballybofey I really think that the people in the nine Ulster counties really appreciated that gesture, it was a wonderful gesture. Kerry's stock at that time would have been at an all time high in Ulster. Of all the counties who had wonan all Ireland around that time (70's) Kerry did not forget Ulster.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 14/10/2014 21:49:24    1663769

But clearly your system explanation is flawless

Not flawless Corrxxx - would probably be on a par with your 'not being pedantic' skills.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 15/10/2014 08:24:35    1663785

Kerry never forgot about the 6 counties. From 1921 onwards the feeling / support, in general, has always been the same and various instances throughout history prove that.

I feel we are being dragged into another Kerry Vs North argument. We will defend ourselves in this argument but we do not want to be having it. What if Kerry were in Ulster is a rediculous question that cannot be answered. There are only opinions and it is obvious the way the argument is going to go. Anyone outside of Kerry will look at reducing that magical number - 37 - whatever way they can. We in Kerry will defend tthat number.

So...the defense......

What if Kerry were in Leinster? Would the dubs have won half of their 24 All irelands?(Yes because half were won before 1910 anyway).
What if Kerry were in Connacht? Would we have had an even easier route to the final? Questionable, but who cares.
What if the Ulster teams were in Munster? Wouldanything really be different? Would Kerry and Cork not still be Kingpins.
What Ulster teams would beat Tipperary, Limerick or Clare at the moment in a Munster Championship? Maybe 3.

Some stats:-
Won 4 allirelands in the 70's
Won 5 in the 80's
Won 1 in the90's (we had a visibly poor team in massive transition)
Won 5 in the 2000's (Nothing has changed - despite the extra round and the political harmony)

What if, what if, what if. What if we didn't consider football a religion. How many All irelands would we have won then? Probably about a quarter.

The fact is that if we go into the qualifiers early we increase our chance of winning an All ireland. Right now it is of no advantage to be in a Munster final.

thykingdomcome1 (Kerry) - Posts: 78 - 15/10/2014 09:37:46    1663801

I think if Kerry were in one of the other provinces definitely they wouldn't have won as many all Irelands. Especially before the qualifiers were introduced. They would still have been there or there abouts but they would have got the odd surprise in the early rounds especially away from home. Still would have had great teams though.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 15/10/2014 12:29:55    1663891

Kingdom,would u say its an advantage to play in a province of 6(with 5 predominantly hurling counties),or a province of 12(with 10 predominantly football counties).Have a wee think for yourself.The answer is staring you in the face.If you think thats fair,well so be it.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 13:05:11    1663907

Sam
How is my remark stupid? Kerry are the world champions.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 15/10/2014 13:11:30    1663910

Crikey-that is a pretty straightforward reply.I gree 100%.There is no doubt whatsoever it is an advantage for Kerry to play in Munster.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 13:13:08    1663911

Nothing more to see here?

This debate comes and goes regularly.

We will never know for sure if there is an advantage in having an easy run before august, or a tough one.

I would say in terms of winning all irelands, it wont make a difference, unless there is major attrition on the squad, but if you are looking at the bigger teams, the squad is always good enough to carry the team forward.

I would say if there is any weakness in a team at all, the long haul will find them out.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 15/10/2014 13:31:29    1663920

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 1276

1663907 Kingdom,would u say its an advantage to play in a province of 6(with 5 predominantly hurling counties),or a province of 12(with 10 predominantly football counties).Have a wee think for yourself.The answer is staring you in the face.If you think thats fair,well so be it.

It depends on what you call an advantage......

a) It's interesting to see that Dublin and Kerry have won the exact same number of Provincial titles in the last 25 years - 14. What do you make of that? It doesn't look like it's any more difficult for you to win a Leinster as it is for us to win Munster. Yet Kerry have gone on to win 7 All irelands and Dublin only 2 in that same period from what you would have to agree is the exact same position. Where was Kerry's advantage there. Are you saying that Dublin were so knoackered after the incredibly difficult route to a Leinster Championship that they had nothing left in the tank?


b) Who are the 10 predominantly football counties that are such serious competition they drain you of all energy for the remaining season? How come only 5 Leinster AI wins in the last 25 years with all these footballing counties. Maybe it is because the number of counties doesn't matter and it's the quality that you need to look at.

I would argue that Tipp would beat any team in Leinster outside of Dublin.

thykingdomcome1 (Kerry) - Posts: 78 - 15/10/2014 14:25:42    1663946

thykingdomcome1
County: Kerry


Some stats:-
Won 4 allirelands in the 70's
Won 5 in the 80's
Won 1 in the90's (we had a visibly poor team in massive transition)
Won 5 in the 2000's (Nothing has changed - despite the extra round and the political harmony)



lol

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 15/10/2014 15:06:17    1663969

I know !! Transition is definitely an over statement. But sure, to us, it was a transition and a transition that just kept on going.

That team were poor. We had the Bomber, Jacko and Mikey sheehy et all hanging on - no midfielder in sight from 86 to 97 and no full back line. Beaten by a good Cork regularly and beaten by Clare in a Munster final. The one that we won of course we came up against Down and we know what happens when Kerry play Down. People like Eamonn Breen and Liam Flaherty were warriors and we had Maurice Fitz but after that we were average. Yes, now that I think about it it was a very very long transitional period.

thykingdomcome1 (Kerry) - Posts: 78 - 15/10/2014 15:43:54    1663983

Kerry and Cork get it handy every year and its not fair on the rest of Ireland, look at Tyrone in 2005 the had to play 10 matches to win the All Ireland and Kerry got to the final after 5, its not fair!! I think it should be Champions League Style or full knock out and have a second comp for the team that gets beaten... it cant continue the way it is or teams wont have the players cause they will want to play club football in stayed of county like it happened in Armagh this year ( a few went and played club football in stayed of making themselves available to the county). Fingers crossed its sorted soon and then the smaller teams will develop as well!!!

youngfella27 (Armagh) - Posts: 110 - 15/10/2014 16:02:15    1663991

Kingdom,why concentrate on the last 14 years?We have had an unprecedented period of dominance in that time.Ye have had this for nearly 130 years.My argument is not that Dublin are better than Kerry.I have said on numerous occassions that Kerry are the standard bearers.The artistocrats.The Real Madrid of football.But ye also have an obvious advantage by playing in Munster.For starters weve 12 counties to yere 6.Doesnt matter the standard of the counties.The mere fact that any team has to play more than any other team is wrong.What other sport in the World would that be deemed to be fair?None i reckon.Ye are also in a hurling province.Football counties have cyclical success in Leinster.Louth won All Ire in 50s,Offaly won All Irelands in 70s & 80s,Meath won 4 All Irelands in 80s & 90s.On top of this Kildare,Laois and Westmeath have tasted Leinster success over last 20 years.Wexford,Longford,Wicklow and Carlow have strong football traditions also.That is 10 counties.Tipp havnt won a Munster since 1935 and Waterford,Clare,Limerick have won a combined total of 4 Munster finals in 130 years.12 counties v 6?What is equal about that for a start?

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 16:11:30    1663992

yaaaaaaaawn.
Clare/Tipp/Limerick the cannon fodder for kerry and Cork in the Munster Championships have consistently beaten teams from other provinces! enough said!

Sam is looking well anyway, nice and content having returned home

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 15/10/2014 16:37:52    1664005

I just think the argument is meaningless. Playing less games or more games is arguable either way which is the best for a teams development.

Lets be honest - as it stands, it doesn't matter how many counties are in a province we all know who is and isn't going to win. Dublin in Leinster, Kerry or Cork in Munster, Galway or Mayo in Connacht and Dinegal or Armagh in Ulster, possibly Tyrone. If there isn't some level of parity on standard the number of counties is meaningless. Having more counties means more matches and that could be a strength or a weakness.

Tyrone or Dinegal will be knocked out of the first round next year in Ulster. Who are they going to meet in the first 3 rounds with genuine AI winning potential? Is it an advantage to have these types of matches rather than challenge matches and internal training matches. For us it has proven to be beneficial to enter the early stages of the qualifiers.

The real problem is not the number of counties in the provincial championships it's the fact that only a handful of teams are likely to win the All ireland next year. If a league increases the number of potential winners then great......I'm absolutely all on for that. Somehow I doubt that this is a solution either though. Leagues inevitably produce the odd shock but the stronger teams always progress. Take any sport with a league.......The premiership, The world Cup qualifiers, The Pro 12, The Rugby World Cup, The Oaks / Derby / 1000 Guineas, Baseball, Hurling, the cricket world cup.......they are all dominated by a predictable few. The thing to concentrate on is increased effort / grants etc from central council at underage level in the so called 'weaker' counties.

Look at the effort Tipp are putting in. I guarantee they will progress over the next few years. They have a target on an All ireland by 2022. Look at what Tyrone managed at underage level in the 90s and what that produced in the 2000s. Dublin in the hurling are similar. Imagine this effort across all so called 'weaker' counties and what the resulting championship would be like then.

thykingdomcome1 (Kerry) - Posts: 78 - 15/10/2014 16:55:38    1664023

Yes i know of all the work going on in various counties.I just think its time for an open draw,or at least 4 regions with 8 in each.Kerry would win All Irelands if they were played on the Moon.Im looking for fairness for all all 32 counties,right across the board.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 15/10/2014 17:02:34    1664026