bennybunny
County: Cork
Posts: 2484

I hope you live a long time then...

I hope so too...doubt I'll live long enough to see the Cork seniors footballers grow a spine though.

rcarragh (Dublin) - Posts: 305 - 30/09/2014 10:03:57    1658412

kildarecat22
County: Kildare
Posts: 228

Cody was right to call Barry Kelly out on that decision it was plainly wrong and anyone who claims otherwise is just a rabid hater of Kilkenny.

Brian Hogan is quite clearly trying to sidestep Maher who frontal charges him leaving him flat on his backside knowing full well if Hogan got around him it was almost a certain winning score for Kilkenny.

I thought it was a very bad call too. I've watched it several times on slow-motion now. Hogan slows down and braces himself for the impact that was coming from Maher. The very fact that he slowed down probably resulted in him ending up on his arse. A "charging" player, almost by definition, doesn't slow down. Even thinking about it intuitively, a "charging" player doesn't get put on his backide.

I think in the interest of defusing this little sideshow, Cody should probably retract the use of the word "criminal" (even though he clearly didn't mean it literally) but should definitely stand by his assertion that he felt it was a very wrong decision, at a crucial (nay, decisive) time of the match. And that it followed on from previous bad calls from Kelly in 2012 & 2013.

If Kelly and his supporters don't like it, well I guess that's too bad.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 30/09/2014 10:13:28    1658418

Kk man I've been at fifty all Irelands hurling and football and never enjoyed the quality as
much as this year's hurling. But on the other side I have never heard such whingeing supporters
as Kilkennys.Its not just me all you have to do is read the posts on here and see what people think.
Kerry are equally successful and do not attract this type of comment.
Cody's comment was poor.
.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1459 - 30/09/2014 10:15:48    1658422

rcarragh
County: Dublin
Posts: 122

1658412



I hope so too...doubt I'll live long enough to see the Cork seniors footballers grow a spine though.

Could you explain the remark about the Cork footballers and their spine and how it is related to a) what I posted and (b) the title of this thread?

I have simply no idea what point you are trying to make??

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 30/09/2014 10:27:33    1658428

Westmeath man jobber, can you guess who said these words in reference to your fellow county man Barry Kelly?.

"I didn't like the referee, first of all, I never liked him."

I'll give you a hint it wasn't a Kilkenny man.

Here is a link to the story. - http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/controversial-tipp-president-barrett-blasts-ref-kelly-121320.html

kildarecat22 (Kildare) - Posts: 257 - 30/09/2014 10:31:27    1658433

Ironic that everyone calls Kilkenny cynical, Dublin footballers in 2013 final in Mayo were just as bad, Tyrone in their 3 all Irelands weren't much better. Its part of the game, anyone will do anything to win.

222 (UK) - Posts: 695 - 30/09/2014 10:38:56    1658436

kildarecat22
County: Kildare
Posts: 228

1658404
No surprise that the Cork moaners are the most vocal on this thread, must be galling that you're now 5 behind Kilkenny in the all time stakes?.

More than one Cork poster has posted on this thread. Only one has had a go at Kilkenny. People from other counties have said similar things. Yet you come out with a statement like the above. That tells me all I need to know about you being impartial.

You are right. It is galling that we are not in the lead. What way would you expect us to feel? This is sport, of course rivals want to outdo each other. If it wasn't like that, what would the point of competition be? If the likes of Tipp, Cork, Galway and Dublin were not striving to be better than Kilkenny that all of us, Kilkenny included should just pack it in should they not?

That aside, the vast majority of Cork hurling people are gracious despite what you may think. You have put two and two together based one person's opinion and come up with some ungodly number. It is a pity you cannot be a bit more magnanimous and impartial yourself.

Despite that. Well done. Kilkenny are worthy champions.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 30/09/2014 10:39:04    1658437

The Westmeath County Board complained to Croke Park regarding Michael Duignan's criticism of Barry Kelly earlier in the summer. Many were critical of the same ref over his handling of the club final this year. Tipp supporters showed their obvious joy of Barry Kelly when for the first time in living memory they clapped him off the pitch after the drawn match. In the previous two year the ref from the drawn match was a sideline official for the replay. Barry Kelly was excluded this year. Henry Shefflin was sent off in error last year, he had the red card rescinded but nobody called for an apology.

Donal Og Cusack heavily criticised Brian Gavin after the replay last weekend. Gavin's biggest mistake in awarding the penalty, which wasn't a penalty, wasn't even mentioned by Cusack. He complimented Barry Kelly after the drawn match but again failed to mention two major errors in his awarding of the penalties. Cusack bangs on about lack of consistency yet his own analyses is anything but. He failed to mention the huge amount of over carrying and instead focussed in on stuff that you would only see with a magnifying glass.

Back to the drawn match - it would be shameful had Tipp managed to win that game from the last free. How why ref could do what he did at such a crucial time and after what both teams had served up is mean to say the least. Justice was done in the end though.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 30/09/2014 10:48:42    1658442

This is some place for double standards, it's ok for keyboard warriors to come on here and slate the likes of Brolly, Cody, Managers and Players but as soon as one of them gives an honest opinion ye all get up on ye're high horse. Do ye actually realise ye're slating Cody for slating a ref. The only difference is Cody isn't hiding behind a username.

As a neutral I can give an impartial opinion and I believe Kelly has given some poor decisions against Kilkenny over the last few years and there never seems to be a game he refs where he isnt questioned on something comtrovertial.

If people want to ref top games there decisions should be questioned. It's a responsoble job and with responsibilty comes pressure. I'd fully back a segment on the Sunday Game where a ref comes in and explains any controvertial decisions. It may not have to be the ref who made the decision but someone to either say it was correct or incorrect.

Finally on Donal Og and his spare hand, it's all well and good slowing it down and showing the handing holding for 10 seconds, in reality it's a split second action that is impossible for refs to see in most cases. Its not new and it's jot kilkenny who started it. I did it all my career and i'm retired 10 years at this stage.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 30/09/2014 10:48:46    1658443

Fantastic Manager and one of the greatest teams ever to grace the game, but why does he go on about this all the time? Next week we'll have Eddie Keher or Eddie Brennan on message as well, gets a bit monotonous at this stage.


As for Kelly, he's got the balls to blow the whistle on the brinksmanship that Kilkenny dice with, the pulling and dragging, the subtle nudges, the Larkin pulling the opponents arm in and going to ground for the free, big Brian Gavin just lets them at it.

They're not the only ones at it, but by god they've got it down to a fine art.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 30/09/2014 10:52:45    1658446

cuederocket
While I agree that the changing of the penalty rule has in some way taken the advantage away from the penalty taker in having to strike the sliothar from the 20m line would you not agree that both penalties in the drawn match were poorly executed. Callinan hit the first into the ground a definite mishit and was clearly lacking in confidence as he summoned "Bubbles" to take the second. Although he struck it better it was at a perfect height for keeper/defender. As you mentioned in earlier post TJ nearly decapitated Tipp defenders in League Final from 15 metres qand I think that's the point that's been missed here. I am sure that TJ would test the best of them from 20 metres with his ability to strike with such ferocity as seen with his goal in the drawn match. We will just have to watch this space and wait for TJ to be awarded a penalty next year. But if Cody keeps criticising Refs we could have a long wait before KK are awarded a penalty.

Greenwood (Meath) - Posts: 210 - 30/09/2014 10:54:00    1658447

Faithfull

This is some place for double standards, it's ok for keyboard warriors to come on here and slate the likes of Brolly, Cody, Managers and Players but as soon as one of them gives an honest opinion ye all get up on ye're high horse

For a start I generally give a lot stronger opinions in person (partially for the craic admittedly) than the ones I post here anonymously which are watered down for the simple reason that if they weren't then they wouldn't be posted, I don't think this is a forum which really facilitates keyboard warriors to be honest and no harm either.

Do ye actually realise ye're slating Cody for slating a ref. The only difference is Cody isn't hiding behind a username.

Ye but then you're slating us for slating Cody for slating a ref and you're also doing it anonymously so the cycle never ends if you want to go down that pointless road, fact of the matter is Cody came across as a very poor winner after his needless comments, was a tenth AI title not enough no?

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 30/09/2014 11:24:49    1658467

Faithfull
County: Offaly
Posts: 410

1658443
This is some place for double standards, it's ok for keyboard warriors to come on here and slate the likes of Brolly, Cody, Managers and Players but as soon as one of them gives an honest opinion ye all get up on ye're high horse. Do ye actually realise ye're slating Cody for slating a ref. The only difference is Cody isn't hiding behind a username.

As a neutral I can give an impartial opinion and I believe Kelly has given some poor decisions against Kilkenny over the last few years and there never seems to be a game he refs where he isnt questioned on something comtrovertial.

If people want to ref top games there decisions should be questioned. It's a responsoble job and with responsibilty comes pressure. I'd fully back a segment on the Sunday Game where a ref comes in and explains any controvertial decisions. It may not have to be the ref who made the decision but someone to either say it was correct or incorrect.

Finally on Donal Og and his spare hand, it's all well and good slowing it down and showing the handing holding for 10 seconds, in reality it's a split second action that is impossible for refs to see in most cases. Its not new and it's jot kilkenny who started it. I did it all my career and i'm retired 10 years at this stage.

Very good post.

I like your idea about the ref coming on the Sunday Game. That would quiten a lot of the analysts that tend to focus on the ref in the first place.

Donal Og is right to highlight the use of the spare hand. I don't think he or anybody else (I hope so at least) is suggesting Kilkenny started it. The only player I remember being booked for it was Henry Shefflin last year (ironically by Barry Kelly). Kelly's decision was spot on. The only grievance that anybody could have is that it probably happened 30 more times in the same game and everybody else got away with it. As you said though, it is very difficult thing to catch. Referees should be applauded when they do. Colm Lyons (Cork ref) caught a Wexford player doing it against Dublin earlier in the year.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 30/09/2014 11:26:40    1658469

Greenwood,i believe both penalties were executed poorly because of the extra distance involved.Firstly,the striking players had to worry about not encroaching past the 21 yard line.This in itself,would play on ones mind.Never before had penalty takers to think about this.Secondly,the extra 5/7 yards out makes the penalty so much harder to score.2/10 penalties successfully executed since the rule has been ammended,is testament to this.20% is a poor success rate.The players probably tried to overcompensate for the extra distance,by trying to hit the sliotar harder,to the detriment of their natural penalty strike,honed from the time they started to play the game.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 30/09/2014 11:32:59    1658473

Cuederocket
I still believe that players such as TJ, Joe Canning and Pat Horgan will score more than they miss from the 20m line. Admittedly not every team has such players and the advantage should always be to the attacking team when a penalty is awarded. These big games are won and lost on fine margins/calls but I would bet that had KK been awarded a penalty in either game TJ would have went for goal irrespective of whether he had missed one the previous day.

Greenwood (Meath) - Posts: 210 - 30/09/2014 11:48:10    1658486

part one of two

Firstly Cody's comments smack of hypocrisy.... On one hand he is giving out by a 50/50 foul but on the other side his side continually foul for 70 mins as was well highlighted but Donal OG on the sunday game..
Kilkenny talk about being on the edge of the rules... No they are not they are straight up fouling and getting away with it. In one scene we saw the tipperary no. 5 soloing with BOTH Sheflin and Reid hitting the man with their hurleys .. Its clear blatant and simply a foul.
Like one other poster here i think this whole PHYSICALITY is ruining the game. Donal og is right much as it pains me to agree with anything that man says the free hand is being continually used to foul the opposition. Its ugly its tedious and it drives fans nuts in the stands cause we can see it and the ref does nothing about it.
Now i dont need to talk again about the fouling Donal og highlighted it and anyone one can review it..

But this is my point the GAA need to finally do a clearly defined tackle.. And the refs need to implement the rules... Not their interpretation of the rules.... It should not be a case of letting the game go .. If there is a free then its just a bloody free and if the games are reffed to the letter of the law then it will stop the refs affect on the results of the game.. I was very disappointed with Sheedy and kavanagh on sunday night where it was really a case of ahhh shur tis grand.. No its not.. Tipperary were denied frees at crucial stages and reality is we dont know what would have happened if they got them .... Simple as that

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 30/09/2014 11:52:10    1658490

part two of two

We pay alot of money following our teams and i think we deserve to see a fair game. A properly reffed game and most importantly a clean game .. A couple mistakes would be common place in any game and human error must be allowed for but in one 30 second sequence we saw 5 fouls both teams guilty and not a single free...
This method of fouling and getting away with it means teams will continually push the boat to see what they can get away with rather than playing the game by the rules and more importantly in the spirits in which the game should be played...
We need to get away from the days where there is always a conversation after the game of what the ref did or how he got on.. From u6 upwards the rules should be taught and enforced and this whole let the game flow should be stamped out..
We deserve the best team to win but there are so much grey areas in the reffing that its next to impossible to see who the best team is..We see a great catch but its followed by a pull and a drag and a hold to slow the player down .. we need that stamped out ....
Last saturday did the best team win .... I dont honestly know... With the pulling and dragging that goes on what do we learn ... Were tipperary the better team and if the rules were followed would they have been free to express their hurling ????? Were kilkenny the better team i honestly dont know....
I know every kilkenny fan will lambaste me for this post cause killkenny hurling since 2006 is founded on this physicality but lets be fair about it ... PLaying on the edge isnt ok.. A foul is a bloody foul is a bloody foul... And call it what ever way you want hitting a player on the shoulder is a foul ... Pulling back a players hand is a foul ... Pulling a jersey is a foul and just cause the ref didnt blow for it doesnt make it right it just means you got away with cheating simple as that .... And while you can say what you want to me the reality is clear for all to see...

If the roles were reversed and Kilkenny werent allowed to hurl in a game would your opinion be the same ....

So Mr Cody prior to attacking any referee and bring yourself as legend of a man down in my estimation have a look at your self.. Your teachings your mantras and your "PHYSICALITY" and let he who hasnt sinned cast the first stone.. I dont want a no contact game.. Love good hard shoulders.. great blocks flicks hooks

But can we let the rest of the ugly crap out of the game and can the gaa rule markers address this blight in our game we need a better game a cleaner game a better spirited game a faster game and a more honest game where the best player and team wins the all ireland and when the cup is handed over that the referee isnt even a consideration

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 30/09/2014 11:52:36    1658491

Faithful makes a good point regarding the way players try to impede opponents. It has always been done, and as a mediocre corner back all I was short of at times was jumping on someone's back to stop them escaping!

Difference now is that game is so much more intense, played at such a pace and the players themselves are so well conditioned and often capable of stopping a truck, never mind another man!, and there are often three or four players involved in surrounding a player, that it probably seems to be worse and can at times lead to unsightly rucks. Makes it hard for refs to make a call a lot of the times. In general, however, game is better than ever to watch and I think most refs, including the much maligned BK, do an excellent job.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 30/09/2014 11:58:11    1658495

benny-a-bunny
County: Cork
Posts: 2487

Could you explain the remark about the Cork footballers and their spine and how it is related to a) what I posted and (b) the title of this thread?

I have simply no idea what point you are trying to make??


Benny, you sound very self-righteous there, please

a) don't blow a gasket on my account.
and
b) think about it for a few minutes and it'll all become clear.

rcarragh (Dublin) - Posts: 305 - 30/09/2014 11:59:30    1658497

Watched Kilkenny Cork game and felt the referee was not impartial and gave Cork all the big decisions. At time took no notice of who he was. Felt the same in drawn match. Thought the free at the end of drawn match beggered belief. I don't blame Cody. Kilkenny have (and will have) a major problem anmytime he referees them.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1358 - 30/09/2014 11:59:47    1658498