you're spot on arock

The_Bull (Cork) - Posts: 248 - 29/09/2014 17:59:11    1658254

The_Bull
County: Cork
Posts: 156

1658241 Ballydalane, you tell me what minute in the game this happened and i will tell you what i think. It is widely known ye are very cynical and over the top. Yer own former star corner back as good as admitted it last night. You hardly expect opposition players to let KK constantly foul and be over physical and expect no retaliation. tipp are a clean team who play hurling, not the player unlike KK. The sooner only the goalkeeper is left on the goal line for a penalty the better. It might soften yer fouling around the square. 3 penalties conceded in 2 games says enough about KK cynical approach to the game. how cody has the audacity to question barry kelly is beyond belief. Ye won the all-ireland by fouling players going in on goal and this is a fact. Yer cynical approach won ye the all-ireland.

I'll tell you the exact minutes tomorrow when I re-watch the match but it was around the first 10-15 minutes of the second half. Fennelly and Power both cynically dragged back with Kilkenny runners overlapping them, denying clear goalscoring chances. I guess Tipp were cute enough to foul outside the square so it wouldn't attract the same opprobrium from the morality police (but then again the Kilkenny players fouled outside the square too but Barry Kelly saw fit to award penalties for those incidents).

It doesn't surprise me in the least that you don't remember those two incidents, you were probably too busy looking out for Kilkenny fouls.

I'll acknowledge that Kilkenny defenders are cynical when they need to be but I won't sit back and let cynical play against my own team go unmentioned.

And Brian Cody is perfectly entitled to criticise Barry Kelly if that's his opinion. Jaysus, didn't Donal óg practically dedicate a chapter of his book to criticising Kelly? I guess Kelly was persona-non-grata in Cork back then but he's a-ok now, yeah?

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 29/09/2014 18:01:58    1658255

Ballydallane,if Tipp were awarded frees instead of penalties,more than likely,theyd be champions now.So they were of zero benefit in the end.R Power won a dubious penalty for Kilkenny near the end of 2009 final.Of course Henry buried it from 16/17 yards out.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 29/09/2014 18:16:22    1658258

cuederocket
County: Dublin
Posts: 1154

1658258 Ballydallane,if Tipp were awarded frees instead of penalties,more than likely,theyd be champions now.So they were of zero benefit in the end.R Power won a dubious penalty for Kilkenny near the end of 2009 final.Of course Henry buried it from 16/17 yards out.

Cue, hopefully the penalty rule is sorted over the winter. But ultimately we had a ref, Barry Kelly, giving 2 bogus penalties in an All Ireland final for fouls that were outside the square. It's simply not good enough at this level.

And Tipp fans never stop going on about the penalty in '09! As I tell my Tipp buddies, at least they had 10 minutes to come back in that match, Kilkenny would've had no time to come back from the free Kelly dreamt up in the first match.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 29/09/2014 18:50:04    1658275

Tipps goose was cooked in 09 as soon as Benny Dunne decided to play baseball with Tommys head with 20 long minutes to go .So as Henrys howitzer rattled the net,there was no coming back with 14 men.I have nothing but total respect for Kilkenny hurling.Forget Real Madrid.Forget New Zealand rugby.There is no harder team to beat in World Sport.Anywhere.My gripe is with Cody calling an honest mans decision as "criminal".That is a very strong slander.I understand where ye Kilkenny men have some gripes with B Kelly,but i think Cody has done himself no favours with this very public character assassination.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 29/09/2014 19:03:17    1658281

Disgraceful comments by Cody, and while there is no doubt that he is the greatest manager in the history of the GAA, his comments were totally unbecoming of the manager of the All Ireland champions. Had they lost the first day he would have had some justification to challenge the free awarded to Tipperary, but to come out the day after they have won the All Ireland beggars belief, was small minded and the actions of a bully. Brian Cody to me is a mirror image of one of the greatest managers in the history of football, Alex Ferguson, a great manager, but also a bully, and one who constantly railed against officialdom and the media. I sincerely hope that Cody is given a long ban for this, a large fine for the Kilkenny County Board and if Cody has a decent bone in his body, he will apologise to Barry Kelly.

gilly0512 (Galway) - Posts: 1176 - 29/09/2014 19:04:24    1658282

Ballydalane

Fair play to you. Your posts are balanced despite KK getting a lot of stick. You are right to point out the times that KK were cynically fouled (more often fouled in the last match than actual fouling from what I saw).

You are also spot on about 'Cork' opinion of Barry Kelly a few years ago. I had some arguments with my brother (who did 90% of his hurling in a pub)who had conspiracy theories that big bad Barry Kelly was out to get us. Ultimately that has died down as Cork are no longer real contenders. There is no convincing some people that such theories are rubbish.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 29/09/2014 19:51:15    1658293

Unfortunate comments by Cody and seems to have a funny perspective on when a free is to be given and when not. If it was a free in the first minute it was a free in the last minute and to run down a referee over doing what he's there for is poor form indeed.I think most sports people would appreciate Kilkenny hurling but this shows a lack of class.Bad judgement to hark back to something from 3 weeks previously when you've just won another All Ireland.I'd have no doubt that he is obsessed with hurling and that he uses every opportunity to gain whatever advantage he can. Barry Kelly may well be in charge of a Kilkenny game in the future and if he second guesses his judgement for one second and Kilkenny gain an advantage then Cody will have succeeded in his aim.
Two chances of any action being taken against him.
Funny how when Donal Og raised the question of repeated frees going unpunished on the SG that Sheedy and Kavanagh went on with the usual 'ah sure the game needs to be let flow' nonsense.The game could quiet easily flow just as well if players knew they would be penalised if they broke the rules.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 29/09/2014 19:51:27    1658294

Terrible comments , he has his platform and knows damn well it will get printed and reported , as for the ref rarely do they answer back , even if Cody is right its bang out of order to abuse his position as a high profile coach ,
What were his options ? Too many to list ,
After Mickleson has hung Watson something in the air with public executions .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 29/09/2014 19:57:16    1658300

Agree 100% re flow of game Slly. The idea that refs have to leave frees go, or the game won't flow, is utter nonsense.

A lot of the time, the game doesn't flow because of persistent holding leading to ugly rucks.

I thought Cork and Clare played a pretty decent game last year. But, as its stands, if Cork were playing Clare again, and Gavin was reffing, I'd be hoping that the Cork boys 'closed down space,' 'hold them up' 'tackle with intensity.' Those are the phrases I'd use. But what I'd really be saying is - 'These Clare lads are too lively, DO NOT LET THEM RUN. If they even look like finding space, hold them for a second or two, and hope a team-mate arrives to close them down.'

Mark my words - if we keep 'letting the game flow' as much as Michael Duignan would like, we will never see young teams like Clare hurl at their maximum potential. They simply won't be left. And that would be a great pity.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 799 - 29/09/2014 20:54:14    1658328

So by the logic above should ballydalane should Brian Gavin re-watch the match and point out every foul by a Kilkenny player that he missed?

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 29/09/2014 20:56:52    1658331

The Bull
LK played Cork in a qualifier in Thurles in 2002 and lost by a single point and Barry Kelly was the referee. I felt he gave Cork a number of dubious frees that evening and certainly cost us the game. I wonder are all these things in the eye of the beholder.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4340 - 29/09/2014 21:12:00    1658337

Your not far wrong oldtour.I can safely say i never called into question a referees honesty or integrity in all my years watching both codes.People have an obsession with refs.I rarely even notice who the referee is.They are only human,doing a very difficult and thankless job.They will always get calls wrong.But generally id say the calls even themselves out.I wouldnt be a referee for love nor money.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 29/09/2014 21:16:47    1658342

Both wrong in each instance

elguapo (Meath) - Posts: 51 - 29/09/2014 21:20:42    1658345

Nothing worse than a bad winner.

Very poor from Cody. Eddie Keher (a player I'd always loved) was at the same as stuff as well as one of the O'Connors.
No class. Definitely lost a lot of respect for those individuals.

I've admired KK for years but am starting to get sick of this incarnation. The sense of entitlement is jarring.
Don't really want to blame the players for the manager's shortcomings but I'm looking forward to seeing the back of them to be honest.

rcarragh (Dublin) - Posts: 305 - 29/09/2014 21:21:45    1658346

rcarragh
County: Dublin
Posts: 121

1658346
Nothing worse than a bad winner.

Very poor from Cody. Eddie Keher (a player I'd always loved) was at the same as stuff as well as one of the O'Connors.
No class. Definitely lost a lot of respect for those individuals.

I've admired KK for years but am starting to get sick of this incarnation. The sense of entitlement is jarring.
Don't really want to blame the players for the manager's shortcomings but I'm looking forward to seeing the back of them to be honest.

I hope you live a long time then...

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 29/09/2014 21:27:26    1658350

Sorry pinkie, I'm not getting your point.

Does anyone have Donal Og's autobiography? Go to pages 207-209 to see his views on Barry Kelly. Just as hard hitting as anything Cody said. Why is Donal Og allowed his opinion but Cody not?

And I think lads are taking the use of the word "criminal" a bit too literally. What, none of you have ever said "that was a criminal decision"? I'm sure you didn't literally mean the ref should be arrested.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 29/09/2014 21:43:22    1658356

jobber
County: Westmeath
Posts: 208

1658113 Fan Larkin said before the drawn game in up for the match Kilrenny were going to catch Kerry in All Irelands.Well Fan you are still two behind and 37 behind in class cause even though the two All Irelands were brilliant I have never heard such whingers as the Kilrenny supporters.Cody is merely the boss of the whinging wasps.

Tarring a whole county with one brush because a hurling manager said something you didn't like - yeah, real class from you there.

By the way, Fan didn't say "Kilkenny were going to catch Kerry in All Irelands", he said he hoped Kilkenny will one day catch Kerry in All Irelands. Get your facts right and don't be twisting people's words. Fan is a well known admirer of Kerry football.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 30/09/2014 09:05:53    1658395

I can understand where Cody coming from here. Kelly's decision to award Tipperary free at end of drawn match was bizarre. If Cody was going to say something about Kelly the best time to do it was after they won the replay as it would have been unsporting if he said it after either the Cork game or the drawn final (as refereeing performances were not the fault of Cork or Tipperary teams either day).

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1358 - 30/09/2014 09:22:37    1658400

No surprise that the Cork moaners are the most vocal on this thread, must be galling that you're now 5 behind Kilkenny in the all time stakes?.

Cody was right to call Barry Kelly out on that decision it was plainly wrong and anyone who claims otherwise is just a rabid hater of Kilkenny.

Brian Hogan is quite clearly trying to sidestep Maher who frontal charges him leaving him flat on his backside knowing full well if Hogan got around him it was almost a certain winning score for Kilkenny, there was only 2 possible outcomes either play on or a free for Kilkenny, it was astounding that Kelly saw fit to award Tipp the free and just because Cody questioned Kelly's decision the Kilkenny haters are like moths to a flame in their haste to condemn anything Kilkenny.

I suppose its like Man Utd in soccer if you don't support them you hate them and its much the same as far as Kilkenny is concerned, its almost a natural instinct to despise the team who are the most successful?.

kildarecat22 (Kildare) - Posts: 257 - 30/09/2014 09:34:31    1658404