JimTheLegend
County: Donegal
Posts: 5

1657045
Great post Treaty and you raise some interesting points. I think the game is going to evolve at a more rapid pace in the future. It is no longer any good going out with the same game plan that you used in previous matches. If these young coaches like Fitzmaurice and McGuinness get a look at your system/style of play, then they will devise a way to beat it.

You are 100% right Jim, but I am not trying to put forward a new style of play to beat all comers. What I am saying is that I am sceptical of the thought that has emerged from Sunday that this will now be the future for football. It will indeed be aped over the next while by weaker county teams and club teams, but I think they are wasting their time because it is far from the most effective way of playing. It was actually what cost Donegal the game in my opinion. For many, many years now teams have been putting defensive systems in place, while ignoring or neglecting the attacking element. I cannot think of one team that has achieved success with a defensive system alone.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 25/09/2014 21:38:34    1657087

i agree to a point soma..lot of donegal fellas are limited especially lacey and mcfadden this year were hugely limited if you watched them up close..mcgrath has been good in a lot of games but clearly is very undersized for the edge of the square compared with geaney and was exposed..an ideal system will mask the weaknesses of certain players and donegal have been excellent at doing this for years

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 25/09/2014 21:52:32    1657096

Treaty exile
What cost Donegal the game on Sunday was the second goal :: nothing else.
Just think what Kerry scored after their first 1-1 , two points. Look at the frees awarded Ten to Donegal and I to Kerry. Donegal got six points after Kerry's opening scores. Should have got a 45 when O Connor's goal chance was put out by a defender.
Talking to the players on Sunday night and they knew they did not perform. I would love to have got a draw , would have fancied us in a replay.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 25/09/2014 21:55:56    1657099

Commiserations on the defeat Sam. All counties in defeat would like if it had been drawn and have the opportunity in a replay.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7871 - 26/09/2014 08:42:44    1657111

'This final will set the example'

Hopefully not....

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3738 - 26/09/2014 11:18:28    1657171

SamOnErrigal
County: Donegal
Posts: 631

1657099
Treaty exile
What cost Donegal the game on Sunday was the second goal :: nothing else.
Just think what Kerry scored after their first 1-1 , two points. Look at the frees awarded Ten to Donegal and I to Kerry. Donegal got six points after Kerry's opening scores. Should have got a 45 when O Connor's goal chance was put out by a defender.
Talking to the players on Sunday night and they knew they did not perform. I would love to have got a draw , would have fancied us in a replay.

No, that's what cost them the game with the gameplan they had. They defended very well, but their counter-attack was either neglected or lethargic. Six points after that 1-1? So what, it wouldn't have been beyond Donegal to fire in four points extra if their counter-attack functioned as well as it can, and DID after the 55 minute mark (afterr Donaghy's goal).

They forced turnover after turnover in the opening half, but they did not use that possession as well as I've seen them in the past.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 26/09/2014 12:44:38    1657200

they definitely werent as good going forward as they were in 2012..largely down to mcfadden not being the same player..he truly was special back then

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 26/09/2014 15:27:07    1657256

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 619

1657078
I know people will say otherwise but I think the system used by McGuinness allowed him to hide a number of mediocre footballers. Look at the manner in which Geaney was destroying McGrath on Sunday - the effort at defending for the first goal was abysmal. Similar problems were exposed in Ulster where Donegal were giving up goal chances against limited attacks. In my opinion that is why they could not push up on Kerry Sunday even when losing by 3 with only minutes to go. It works for them most days because they are very strong in the middle of the field with a couple of excellent forwards.

Donegal have conceded 3 goals in 4 Ulster Championship seasons under Jim McGuinness - these consisted of a penalty, a rebounded penalty and Monaghans goal in this years final. Even in 2013 when we didn't win Ulster we didn't concede any goals. Also how did Geaney destroy McGrath bar the first couple minutes? Geaney was taken off.

supporter (Donegal) - Posts: 205 - 26/09/2014 15:55:46    1657266

Ifthat example was for puke football ' job done!

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 26/09/2014 18:20:54    1657315

Supporter just looking at stats alone can lead to wildly inaccurate conclusions. For example, I think Michael Murphy finished this years championship with something like 5 points from play, much less than Ryan McHugh. However I still think Murphy is one of the countries best forwards, and certainly a bigger scoring threat than McHugh. Against Derry in the opening game Derry had a couple of great chances, including a forward straight through on goal with acres of space in the first half but he was unable to pick up the ball despite being all alone. Antrim also had chances as did Monaghan. I recall Armaghs full-forward line making goal chances from terrible attempts at points from their half-forwards. The only team that they really limted were Dublin, though they also had 2 great chances. Its just my opinion to be fair, just as it is my opinion that Murphy is a better scoring forward than McHugh. I think Geaneys chances only dried up last Sunday when McGlynn and McGrath swapped which had to happen because up to then Geaney was looking like a superstar.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 26/09/2014 18:52:38    1657320

Legendzxix and all other Kerry posters and supporters::::::: CONGRATULATIONS. Could not have seen this Kerry team win back in May but I was also doubtful of Donegal back then.
We made mistakes and had to pay for them, simple as that and you can't gift goals in any game never mind in AI Finals. But as I say well done to Kerry.
Fabio
You have a big point ::::: a Colm McFadden of 2012 and we would be AI Champs. His form really dipped this year but what a servant to Donegal Really feel for him and the team as they give us the best moments of our life.

Treaty exile
Well that's your opinion :::: Donegal's game plan but I still put it down to the goal. Can't give away goals like that. That's my opinion

Now I met a Galway man ( married in DGL and wearing a DGL jersey) and his opinion::::: we lost it on the sideline,,,, started wrong team and did not change in time. That's the Galways mans opinion. Myself :::::I would have been in favour of being all defensive for most of the first half::::: would have had Declan Walsh in along with the Magee's ( plenty of height in the full back line) with P Mc Grath either marking JoD or play as a sweeper. Could have left Toye Kavanagh and P Mc Brearty to come in later on.
But we did not seem to have the energy and I thought we played well below ourselves. Ulster final was a similar game but Donegal looked different that day ( more comfortable looking ) than on Sunday.
Over the Summer we discussed Ulster football, Kerry getting it handy in Munster , but here is the point:::: if Kerry were playing in the Ulster championship they would have to play a similar type game every time they went out, not skipping over the likes of Clare, Waterford, Tipp or Limerick. So you can imagine how well you have to be prepared for the first round with a trip to mabey Omagh, Athletic grounds ( Armagh) Ballybofey or Clones.
But I'm not worried who tries to copy Donegal , that's up to them but our System is terrific. All the top forwards in the country came a cropper against our defence , JoD last Sunday Jimmy Clarke, CMcManus,K Hughes Mark Lynch and the Dublin full forward line.
As regards next year a lot will depend on Jim ( I think he will stay) as if he goes a few will follow. Next year is important as the following year we might have some of the minors ready plus a couple of 20 year olds who are in the panel at present.
But for now well done Legendzxix, the hermit , Kingdom boy and all

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 26/09/2014 20:27:52    1657340

With all the doomsday predictions still circling after the final, I still predict that the final, in time, will be seen as what not to do (it was for Donegal) as opposed to being the template. The better managers will think outside the box.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 05/11/2014 16:37:38    1669925