It wouldn't go down bad at all goldrick, there were quite a few immigrant soccer teams set up during the boom, and I don't know what else, do you really think anyone got hot and bothered at all? Is Cavan in the real world still? There was soccer, samba and capoeira in gort, etc. People have their minds made up, and fairly closed at a much younger age then they realise, especially the ones who say they don't. I lived in America for a good while and it never crossed my mind to go to a baseball match or a country and Western concert. Foreigners who come here are generally the same. Maybe in Cavan theyre more open minded;-)

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 23/09/2014 11:25:32    1655798

We've been reared since we were knee-high to a duck on GAA, it's in our blood.A lot of us love GAA, some Irish people don't. Not so for foreigners and if their parents have little interest in GAA then they don't pass it down to the next generation. But why should they ? Some Eastern European parents have an historical love for basketball, Americans for baseball or American football. If we were reared on GAA and went to live in Belgrade or Miami probably the locals would find it strange too that we didn't have a passion for their sports. But if we settled down there and reared some of the next generation then maybe those children would love GAA, basketballs, baseball and American football. Like the Monaghan man who has a son playing in the NFL.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7346 - 23/09/2014 11:29:28    1655804

Brooksie:
I'm English and live in Dublin. I attened everyone of Dublin's home matches for the league and championship last year and purchased a season ticket for this year.
Dublin -England what's the difference ??

royalpainter (Meath) - Posts: 874 - 23/09/2014 11:46:22    1655833

s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 3091

1655766
gosh. i am being accused of being defensive, of not knowing about the subject in question and being told about all the europeans abroad who are involved in the GAA.

all this in relation to my response to a poster who had said the foreign nationals in Ireland were insular.

I am sorry that sometimes I post comments on here that are a bit short and snappy but there is usually a reason and there is usually a point being made. I would expect posters to maybe think a little about the true meaning of the post before jumping to conclusions. In this instance my old adversary "the Master" was the only one who actually got it.

What I was trying to say was that rather than irish people integrating abroad and surrendering their irishness in favour of local customs they in fact become "more irish" and keep hold of the traditions they left behind in their homeland.

now how would it go down in Ireland if a group of "foreign nationals" started up a club for themselves ..lets say basketball or volleyball or kabaddi or ice-cricket or whatever.

also to the poster who said cricket is only played by private schools in england. I don't think you know what you are talking about.

But this is just my point: continuing to play gaelic games abroad in no way precludes you from integrating into the local society. Several of our members speak the local language fluently and are married/ in long term relationships with locals. Then you get the odd few who don't make much of an effort, but posts like yours assume that it's the majority of us who are like that, when in fact, the opposite is the case.

It's unrealistic to expect immigrants to immediately drop all of their cultural traits as soon as they land. In Mayo, the local cricket side is made up of predominantly doctors from the Indian sub-continent, with a few locals thrown in. But amongst that community, there are also several younger people who play football and hurling, one of whom represented the Mayo minors this year. So I think it's very much a generational thing.

I am sorry if I'm a bit defensive about all of this, but there's an awful tendency by some people back at home to jump to conclusions about exile communities, without knowing much about it. I suspect the same could be said of ethnic minorities in Ireland.

There's also a tendency to apply different standards when it comes to GAA people overseas, as opposed to soccer, rugby players etc. We're expected in some quarters to give up the sports we love simply because we've moved abroad for whatever reason, but the same logic is seldom applied to expats who form clubs in other codes (often made up exclusively of non-locals).

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 23/09/2014 11:55:46    1655844

good reply Gleebo. I take on board all that. However there is a tendency with Irish people to expect everyone to love us and to asimilate.
remember the old history lesson about the cultural assimilation of the Normans in Ireland who "became more Irish than the Irish themselves". We (and I mean the irish in ireland not the diaspora) expect the Non-nationals to assimilate. we find it difficult to accept that they might not want to assimilate. They might want to mix with their own, stay in their own communities, carry on their own customs and traditions. some of the comments on here bear that out. I take on board what you have said about the irish that you have mixed with abroad but you also have to accept that alot of the irish who immigrated did form their own ghettos and communities in Britain and america for instance. perhaps in latter years when the irish immigrant got more confidant and better educated they assimilated (or at least integrated) more with their hosts.

you know it takes a lot of guts for a young man or woman .. say in their early twenties to join a club where they know nobody , can barely speak the language and have never played the sport before.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 23/09/2014 13:15:06    1655915

I think your missing the point completely, goldrick, the thread isn't about how 'bad' Irish are at assimilating, etc. It's about whether foreign nationals here play GAA. Most don't, for whatever reason(s). If you want to go off on a self loathing tangent, fair enough, but it'd probably be better in its own thread. What sports Irish people play abroad/foreigners play here is their own business, I would say both groups are fairly insular (very generally speaking), which isn't a crime by the way, so calm down

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 23/09/2014 13:40:31    1655945

s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 3094

1655915
good reply Gleebo. I take on board all that. However there is a tendency with Irish people to expect everyone to love us and to asimilate.
remember the old history lesson about the cultural assimilation of the Normans in Ireland who "became more Irish than the Irish themselves". We (and I mean the irish in ireland not the diaspora) expect the Non-nationals to assimilate. we find it difficult to accept that they might not want to assimilate. They might want to mix with their own, stay in their own communities, carry on their own customs and traditions. some of the comments on here bear that out. I take on board what you have said about the irish that you have mixed with abroad but you also have to accept that alot of the irish who immigrated did form their own ghettos and communities in Britain and america for instance. perhaps in latter years when the irish immigrant got more confidant and better educated they assimilated (or at least integrated) more with their hosts.

you know it takes a lot of guts for a young man or woman .. say in their early twenties to join a club where they know nobody , can barely speak the language and have never played the sport before.

Yours is a fair post, and I can see where you're coming from to a large extent. It's possibly different for those of us who emigrate to non English-speaking countries, as we have to learn another language to get by, and so the temptation to fall back exclusively into the Irish community is a bit lessened than maybe it is in the likes of Oz or the States.

Integration is a two-way street, ultimately, and there is a degree of understanding required on both sides to make it work.It can also be difficult in some cases where people clearly don't want to make an effort. The old barriers tend to melt away with the generations, I think.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 23/09/2014 15:00:09    1656021

Ok flock, so you are asking for a one word answer to the original post then , are you. "yes" or "no" . I think we might have a wee bit of an interesting discussion for a change.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 23/09/2014 15:14:47    1656037

Its generally the second generation that are taking up the games. Its pushed by the schools and the local clubs. Living in an area with a high proportion of foreign nationals I welcome the fact that this happening. These are Irish kids , sometimes this is forgotten. GAA is a long way from being a global game unlike soccer. Unless you know someone in a club as an adult you are unlikely to join a club.

spmccann (Dublin) - Posts: 209 - 23/09/2014 15:42:50    1656062

There are Polish and Lithuanian clubs in Dublin Basketball. But in juvenile GAA in Dublin I've not encountered it, except the younger juveniles, but they eventually drift away to other sports. There are a few, but not as many as you might expect given the size of Dublin GAA.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 23/09/2014 15:47:31    1656066

Well I guess this is where the culchies are beating the jacks hands down. 3 players on wm minor team last year were foreign nationals (I hate that term) Nigeria I think 2 was from but I'm open to correction on their nationality.
Personally on a juvenile team I coach there is 2 polish 1 Nigerian 1 Latvian and 1 Brazilian. That's in a group of 35.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/09/2014 16:14:49    1656090

Well I guess this is where the culchies are beating the jacks hands down. 3 players on wm minor team last year were foreign nationals (I hate that term) Nigeria I think 2 was from but I'm open to correction on their nationality.
Personally on a juvenile team I coach there is 2 polish 1 Nigerian 1 Latvian and 1 Brazilian. That's in a group of 35.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/09/2014 16:22:48    1656101

As someone who spent a few decades in the States, I can tell you the GAA communities abroad, in the big cities anyway, can be quite insular. But, it takes a lot of nerve to leave to home and go to the States alone. So, what does the emigrant do? You find familiarity, maybe you know someone from the parish who also went over, and where else do the newly arrived find a job (as they may be without papers, as some say).

But, back to the original question. I know that some adults who were not born in Ireland or Irish citizens (I abhor 'foreign national' as a term for anyone) do participate. There was an article in a western newspaper (I don't remember which at the moment) earlier this year a friend sent me about a man from America hurling in Mayo. But, I think he had played before in America. If there were clubs here that catered to new adults, or even just said that they accepted adults without experience then you might see more joining clubs. The post earlier about schools and clubs pushing the games in schools is true and children of immigrants tend to participate more than their parents. It really is just an issue of exposure. As someone more into hurling than football, and from living abroad for so long, I can tell you, you don't need to be Irish to hurl. We're just better at it because kids walk around with their hurls and get touches in wherever they go (before and after the sunday sermon is a common sight). I've seen some Americans with serious ability, now only if they took their hurls everywhere, it'd be a different story.

kilflynn (Kerry) - Posts: 66 - 23/09/2014 18:16:26    1656197

Here in galway city whenever I see gaelic football being played there are always a small number of coloured kids playing.
Soccer clubs have benefited most from immigration from what I see but its great to see these kids taking up our games, even if it is in smallish numbers.
May this trend continue and grow.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 23/09/2014 18:59:29    1656224

As a native, I blame my instinctive cowardice, severe shortsightedness and cackfooted gait for ruining my life. If any Gall can play then they should. Hurling is not an exclusively Irish 'thing' anyway, as the shinty players of Scotland and the historians of Scotland will attest. The notion that it is all wrapped up in some quasi mystical miasma is spew. The Celts 'blew in' to Ireland a few thousand years back. The county system of which we are all so proud has more to do with English taxation than anything else. Let's enjoy it for what it is... but ... park the self reverential nonsense!!!

plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 23/09/2014 19:34:47    1656247

Fair enough goldrick, I see your point, sorry if I came across rude.
Anyway I think the consensus is that foreigners (for want of a better word) children play GAA. Id say most of them are Irish, having been born or raised here. Back in the ninetys, before the big waves of immigration started there were an arab and a coloured lad who played hurling for setanta in ballymun, both were fluent gaeilgeors as well and well able to hurl

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 23/09/2014 20:05:29    1656276

The experience of mass immigration in any western country is that native culture and traditions suffer. Soccer is a global sport so naturally that is what they will gravitate towards. Won't be long until they or their self-appointed spokespeople will be demanding that the Irish language, games, and music are downgraded within the education system and public broadcasting because they discriminate against them.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 24/09/2014 09:10:07    1656365

Ive coached at juvenile for some years , I don't wish to portray this as typical of Dublin clubs , its just my own experience . For the area I live in we get a lower than expected number coming in at early age .On the otherhand the soccer clubs have huge uptake on membership ,
There is GAA representation in the schools , so we cant say its lack of promotion , what I can say is that over the years dialogue held with parents of foreign nationals has been intresting , they don't get the amature nature of the game , even less so the exhaustive fund raising . As said its only been my experience Im sure others will differ .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 24/09/2014 10:18:45    1656394

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 6631

1656365
The experience of mass immigration in any western country is that native culture and traditions suffer. Soccer is a global sport so naturally that is what they will gravitate towards. Won't be long until they or their self-appointed spokespeople will be demanding that the Irish language, games, and music are downgraded within the education system and public broadcasting because they discriminate against them.

No. the irish do that themselves. I have listened to so-called irish people long enough giving out about the irish language and asking why we should be subjected to it. plenty on here who are supposed to be GAA supporters giving out about our native language. an I'm damn sure lots of them would not know a jig from a reel either. so don't go blaming other races for the demise of our culture, blame ourselves.

also to those who use the word "coloured".. please don't it's outdated ,offensive and inaccurate.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 24/09/2014 10:44:08    1656415

S Goldrick, I am aware of all that antipathy to our culture from natives, and of the significant minority of anti social and criminal elements we have bred ourselves.

Hardly a cogent argument for importing more!

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 24/09/2014 11:14:01    1656435