Im saying you bottled the chance on the day also

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 23/09/2014 13:21:07    1655922

If it was such a bad Kerry team what does it say about the rest of the teams? And who is to say that all out attacking football is the only way to play the game? It's not league football it's championship. Doesn't matter what you've done in your previous games, when the provincial championships are over you lose and you're out. The 'just didn't turn up in the day' arguement is avoiding the issue. Why did you not turn up on the day? That needs to be addressed before next season or it could happen again. If you go around convinced ye were hard done by and ye were good enough you're gonna have a false sense of where ye stand for next year. I was embarrased by some Mayo people blaming the ref after the Kerry replay. Did the ref continue to kick ball into the man in close to the sideline, letting Kerry regroup and making it more difficult for us to score? Even when we had fairly decent chances we missed them, enough chances to win the game I would say. Kerry were clinical when they needed to be thye got great scores off their bench too.

The worst Kerry team of all time to win an All Ireland? It's a high enough standard to be a Kerry team never mind one that lifts Sam.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 23/09/2014 13:29:46    1655933

The Master

So it comes down to getting it wrong on the day i.e being beaten by a better team on the day that are perceived to be worse than yours means that you've bottled it.

So it wasn't Mcguinness' tactics or Donegal's excellent play but rather Dublin's mental inability that led to Donegal's victory then.

Same in the other semi-final. It was Mayo's mental bottling that lost them the game rather than them not being able to defend against Donaghy.

I have to say I completely disagree with you on that but each to their own conclusions I suppose.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/09/2014 13:38:57    1655943

teams made errors, they lost, THE END.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 23/09/2014 13:43:02    1655950

Not a very sporting thread to start but lets face is Dublin and Mayo fans are sick. That's not to say Kerry don't deserve Sam, they do cause well they won it.

Dublin fans will look back at two fluffed goal chances especially the Connolly one....that goes in and Donegal don't come back for me.
Mayo - forget Limerick, we were four points up with 5mins to go...should have held that lead, no excuses.

The fine line between defeat and failure. I heard someone say a Mayo v Dublin final would have been a much better match for the neutrals but lets face it last year's All Ireland final was a poor game too.

Kerry have Sam, the rest of us don't.....time to look to 2015.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11236 - 23/09/2014 13:48:57    1655957

Codswallop, this bottling rubbish, players at the top level of football are good enough on the day or they are not, if mistakes are made, you get beat. In my opinion Mayo would have beat Donegal in the final and Dublin would have beat Kerry, but these are hypothetical therefore mean nothing!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 23/09/2014 14:09:18    1655978

Look mesamis, Im not a fan of this bottling thing, but it is a term that gets used in the gaa, and if ever you wanted a nailed on case, the Dublin semi was it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 23/09/2014 15:11:43    1656034

Master - do you hate Donegal ? I know it's not related to this topic but I am just wondering ?

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 23/09/2014 15:26:21    1656049

TheMaster
County: Mayo

Look mesamis, Im not a fan of this bottling thing, but it is a term that gets used in the gaa, and if ever you wanted a nailed on case, the Dublin semi was it.

Don't agree with that at all. Tactics cost us the game. Plain and simple. Just wasn't our day with those early goal chances missed either.
Donegal deserved their victory. As did Kerry in the final.

But for a certain Mayo poster to come out and say the Dubs BOTTLED it v Donegal, is extremely rich considering the games your county have Bottled over the years. ;o)

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3738 - 23/09/2014 15:51:27    1656072

So Master it is considered bottling when the opposition play better than you with better tactics on the day. I'm not sure many would agree with that.

What about leading by 4/5 points with a few minutes left and not winning. Is that bottling?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/09/2014 16:48:15    1656123

This is the thing fionn, mayo 'bottled it' against much superior teams, teams they 4 out of 5 times wouldn't beat and man for man were nowhere near (In fact I would say that if mayo had beaten Kerry, it would have been Kerry who bottled it). So if you say they bottled it, then what does that say about Dublin against Donegal? I appreciate that tactics came into it, but look, 10 minutes in and you know their tactics. If you are still getting stung by the same thing 60 minutes later then you have nobody to blame but yourself. This isn't something that Dublin just couldn't deal with, like say Maurice Fitz back in 97 or donaghy this year, this was coming about because your own players were running up the pitch over and over. If they just held their position there would be no space and Donegal's goose would have been cooked, like we seen Kerry do. I mean, get caught up the pitch once, fair enough. Next time just hold your position. There wasn't really a whole lot more to cracking it...


TheRightStuff, I actually admire what Donegal have done greatly. Although, I thought in 2012 they were very cynical with their tactical fouling out the field, and then mayo got the blame when brolly knowingly painted mayo as the masters of the dark arts, when in truth they were amateurs compared to Donegal. That would have been my only gripe with them, but they have moved on from that. Their foul count was amazing against Dublin. I don't know where you got that impression to be honest with you. It isn't really about Donegal. They know they didn't have the players to go at Dublin, that is why they played the way they did in the first place, and fair play to them. Nothing wrong with that.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 23/09/2014 16:50:33    1656124

At the end of the day no matter what the Master has to say neither Mayo nor Dublin bottled their semi finals.

Both were beaten by the better side on the day. Both teams had a go with their tactics on the day but came up short. On another day these tactics may have worked If Dublin had have taken their earlier goal chances and say Donegal's forwards missing one or two of theirs or if Donaghy hadn't such form then Master wouldn't be on here labelling both sets of players bottlers.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/09/2014 17:23:29    1656157

No mes Mayo were unlucky, Dublin were well beat.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/09/2014 18:41:18    1656214

Well beat in the end Royal is right. Better team on the day won.

Master's the only one he seems to think otherwise, that Donegal only won because Dublin's mental failings.

Mayo were unlucky alright and didn't lose because of mental failings either, despite what Master says.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/09/2014 18:51:53    1656219

We weren't unlucky. We weren't smart enough to play the into the right zone at the defining moments in tge semi final, the replay and extra time in the replay. No matter that Kerry have more skilful forwards than , they still have to have the ball in the area where they can do the most damage. Better team won on the night.

Dublin had a cakewalk to the semi final, Donegal had more difficult games. In some of the Dublin games things were fairly tight in the first half , Laois game in particular. But The Dubs were rightfully confident enough to come out I the second half of those games and blitz the opposition. In my opinion, each has their own, they weren't prepared for the level of Donegal opposition in the second half. McGuinness had done his homework and maybe gambled that if they kept Dublin on the backfoot in the second half it would take them out of their comfort zone.Donegal were the better team on the day.

If luck had a part to play I games lads would ease off on the training and bring a few horsehoes and rabbits feet with them! I don't like the bottler or choker term, it's disrespectful to our great athletes, most of us would never even dream hiw we could aspire to their level. Fair enough if ye apply it to Mayo over the years, I see where ye're coming from, but we're big boys, we'll get over it.

Both teams lost to better teams in the semi finals. How you want to phrase it is entirely up to you.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7360 - 23/09/2014 19:07:52    1656230

Kerry were muscled out of a few times in the noughties by northern teams. With the exception of 08, they really should have won those finals. In 11, they failed to close out against Dublin, and paid the price. Last year, they started brilliantly against Dublin but ran out of puff near the end. This time out, the wanted to make no mistake about it: thanks to Fitz, they didn't.

Mayo usually peak too soon in the championship. This year they didn't. They were simply bested by poor refereeing, bad luck and a more astute and hungrier set of opponents. Donegal though simply weren't right for this final. The bluster from the hills had got to them. I suspect that all this yip-yap about ten point wins will come back to haunt Dublin. Why? Talented as they are, the sum winning margin of their last two titles was two points.

A Kerry team with more conditioning, drills and returning heroes (Walsh & Cooper) will take some stopping. I just hope that AO'M, DO'S and BS can stick it out for another year. Yerrah shure, they might as well risk a shellacking from the blue boys, after all that they've been through.

plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 23/09/2014 19:26:18    1656239

Mes I'd agree completely.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 23/09/2014 19:40:56    1656252

As a game it wasnt the most appeasing! But who can agrue Greece didnt deserve to win the Euros back in 2004!!
I was confident before the game we would win but at half time I thought we were in big trouble. But thankfully apart from the lucky Donaghy goal we never elt Donegal to dicate the game with their system. WE carbon copied it which led in fairness to one of the msot drab matches I have seen Kerry play.
But it was done for this match and expect to see Kerry back to playing attractive football but we have seen these Kerry players can adapt when needs must.

in 2011 Dublin also played this way remember! But that didnt make them a negative team as seen in the 11 final

All in all hopefully we wont see an overload of defensive systems and the the pure enjoyment of going to matches will lessen

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 24/09/2014 11:25:18    1656443

Ah the old Kerry bregudgery is alive and well. You'd think winning an All Ireland when we were written off all year, would silence people for few days at least, obviously not.

Ah sure, what can you do just keep sticking it to them I suppose. Down here we are all looking forward to putting some manners on the minority of Dublin fans like you Clondalkin in 2015!

As I told you on here a few weeks ago, hope you enjoyed the couple of All Irelands you won while Kerry were rebuilding. We are back and we will have number 40 home by 2018!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 24/09/2014 12:59:57    1656513

You hear lots of nonsense at matches, especially half time discussions with people you dont know at the back of the stand, or full time experts full of hindsight and wisdom. I would say this year is no exception. I did hear some talk from fellow donegal supporters, who were obviously still hurting from losing the game that we left it behind in some way. Today is wednesday, and the vast majority of us now realize that this is not the case. The best team won, and if we got a chance to play the game again, or if little things happened differently on the pitch, then the outcome could have been different. I say nonsense to this. The first goal was cancelled out and we were a point up in the second half. The second goal was more of a game changer, but there was an ambush waiting to happen, and it did. The donegal players had about 20 minutes to correct this, and they didnt, despite rallying.

Same goes for the dublin game. Connolly missed a goal chance that was very similar to ours in the first half on sunday, it was well stopped. The only way you can correct these days out is to return another day and try again. This is sport. Nothing is left behind once you lose, unless you throw a game away in the last minute against the run of play.

I hope kerry enjoy their success, and even though the final was a very poor game, you have got to look at the games played over the entire year, in which kerry were excellent. On the merit of all their performances, they would have most likely beaten dublin or any team from ulster as well as donegal. They saw to cork and mayo. That is good enough in my book.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 24/09/2014 19:48:55    1656714