It isn't a cheap shot at all, its the truth. Tyrone came up well short every second year and Donegal, after beating all comers in 2012 got beaten by monaghan and a mayo team they had beaten the year before.

As regards this thing about not having the hunger the following year, strangely enough, nobody offers that same excuse to Kerry when they talk of tyrone beating them... Shouldn't that apply to all winners?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/09/2014 15:54:54    1650999

yes well the tyrone reasons are well noted..in 2009 they reached the semi and were beaten by a superior cork side on the day....donegal werent expected to beat mayo..they were way out of form...quite clearly looks like a cheap shot

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/09/2014 16:01:49    1651002

Ye actually the more I think about it the less similarities I see between that great Tyrone team and this Donegal team, for a start if Jim's men win their second AI (3rd overall) then Donegal will have won all their AIs as provincial winners. Tyrone have only won 1 of their 3 by the front door, so although they were a great team the second chance system introduced in 2001 was vital to much of their success, nothing like Donegal at all really.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 11/09/2014 16:22:31    1651014

donegal have been pretty dominant in both the 2012 and 2014 runs

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/09/2014 16:42:24    1651025

11/09/2014 15:54:54
TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11913

1650999

As regards this thing about not having the hunger the following year, strangely enough, nobody offers that same excuse to Kerry when they talk of tyrone beating them... Shouldn't that apply to all winners?

Fair play. A point I've made myself at times.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7882 - 11/09/2014 16:43:29    1651026

dont think kerry required any motivation for beating tyrone after the 2003 game

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/09/2014 16:50:53    1651029

In fairness Htraem we were beaten in the 2005 Ulster Final replay by Armagh which was probably a better team than anything Donegal would face in Ulster. Not that Monaghan are a bad team by any means.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 11/09/2014 16:54:29    1651034

Pointless discussion started by a dillusional tyrone supporter clearly hanging on to past glory. Tyrone are in the worst state they have been for a long time, probably outside the top 8.

Donegal aren't anything near what Tyrone in the early to mid 2000's were and it is understandable that a lot of bitter posters till remain as they ruffled plenty of feathers.

Kerry are and always will be kingpins and set the bar, end off! They should see it as a compliment that people go over the top when they miss out on winning.

As for Meath and Mayo supporters, wise up. Mayo enjoy an all Ireland final that you aren't bottling and as for meath I wouldn even put them in the top 16 anymore

redhanddefender (Tyrone) - Posts: 913 - 11/09/2014 16:57:01    1651035

cacsmckilly
County: Tyrone
Posts: 964

1650877
Lockjaw
County: Donegal
Posts: 3588

1650852 The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about, what do ya reckon cacs?

It is Mike Frank doing the talking, is that your best reponse?

You set up a disingenuous thread to attempt to wind up Donegal supporters and laud your admittedly great Tyrone team again?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 11/09/2014 17:08:02    1651042

MichaelO

In fairness Htraem we were beaten in the 2005 Ulster Final replay by Armagh which was probably a better team than anything Donegal would face in Ulster. Not that Monaghan are a bad team by any means.

Oh I now that and I'm not trying to take away from Tyrone's success, just comparing the two counties ans also it's worth remembering Tyrone got Armagh back that year in a cracking game. Anyway as far as I'm concerned the whole AI championship should be changed to a World Cup format (or something to that effect) and that would facilitate a team to be beaten and still win the championship so it would be hypocritical to say I have an issue with it.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 11/09/2014 17:08:34    1651043

redhanddefender

As for Meath and Mayo supporters, wise up. Mayo enjoy an all Ireland final that you aren't bottling and as for meath I wouldn even put them in the top 16 anymore

Ok ok you're upset, just calm down and see the logic.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 11/09/2014 17:10:16    1651046

Jaysus lads,

Talk about getting carried away!!!

I'd wait until after the final before making comparisons with anyone let alone the great Tyrone side.

Nothing won yet.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 11/09/2014 18:20:04    1651068

It isn't too surprising that JMcG will have picked up some things from Tyrone. They were winning All-Irelands when he had aspirations of moving into management. There's very much a unique Donegal stamp upon what he is implementing. It's bit of a move from association football tactics in terms on development in some respects, focus on getting the defence right first and then look at the attacking side of things.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7882 - 11/09/2014 20:21:07    1651111

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11914

1650999
It isn't a cheap shot at all, its the truth. Tyrone came up well short every second year and Donegal, after beating all comers in 2012 got beaten by monaghan and a mayo team they had beaten the year before.

As regards this thing about not having the hunger the following year, strangely enough, nobody offers that same excuse to Kerry when they talk of tyrone beating them... Shouldn't that apply to all winners?

I understand what you saying about Kerry, and that is correct for 2005 and 2008.

However since Armagh won the 2002 All Ireland, the 2003 SF game between Tyrone and Kerry offered a match where both sides were fresh of the baggage of being All Ireland Champions the previous year. Likewise the same can be said of the 2012 All Ireland final, when Donegal and Mayo entered the game as fresh hungry teams, neither of whom had previously won the All Ireland.

With Donegal in 2013, we probably seen the biggest decline in recent memory of any reigning All Ireland Champion. They just couldn't get it together, and the Injury list never seemed to be clearing up as they were relegated and lost the Ulster final. Their revival this year has redeemed them, and certainly proved they are a much better side than last year showed.

It's amazing how difficult it is for teams to win back to back All Ireland titles.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/09/2014 22:02:51    1651197

GaryMc82
However since Armagh won the 2002 All Ireland, the 2003 SF game between Tyrone and Kerry offered a match where both sides were fresh of the baggage of being All Ireland Champions the previous year. Likewise the same can be said of the 2012 All Ireland final, when Donegal and Mayo entered the game as fresh hungry teams, neither of whom had previously won the All Ireland.

Im not denying that, but surely there is more to the tyrone-kerry debate than 1 game? If that is all that is truly between then then they had no bigger a hold over Kerry than someone like meath or indeed Armagh who also had one off wins against them. See what I am saying? Also, it is worth pointing out that Kerry weren't outside a semi final for a long, long time. Those cumulative miles on the clock are rarely factored in either in fairness.


With Donegal in 2013, we probably seen the biggest decline in recent memory of any reigning All Ireland Champion. They just couldn't get it together, and the Injury list never seemed to be clearing up as they were relegated and lost the Ulster final. Their revival this year has redeemed them, and certainly proved they are a much better side than last year showed.

But surely that is exactly the point I made, and was chastised for? They both came up well short in getting near challenging the following year, losing to teams that the previous year they had no issue in beating... It isn't having a cheap shot when you are telling the truth. That is just a fact, they went out at the quarter final stages and deserved to do so. The definition of not having a cheap shot appears to be ignoring the parts you don't like hearing, for some people.

It's amazing how difficult it is for teams to win back to back All Ireland titles.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/09/2014 10:01:37    1651213

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3710

1651026
11/09/2014 15:54:54
TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11913

1650999

As regards this thing about not having the hunger the following year, strangely enough, nobody offers that same excuse to Kerry when they talk of tyrone beating them... Shouldn't that apply to all winners?

Fair play. A point I've made myself at times.

In 2008 both Tyrone and Kerry made it to the final via the back door, so perhaps either team were fortunate to be there in the first place?

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 12/09/2014 10:07:29    1651218

Firstly there's nothing fortunate about negotiating the qualifiers and secondly Kerry were in there battling for a 3 in-a-row on All-Ireland final day.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7882 - 12/09/2014 10:37:41    1651236

Donegalman
County: All
Posts: 1593

1651218 legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3710

1651026
11/09/2014 15:54:54
TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11913

1650999

As regards this thing about not having the hunger the following year, strangely enough, nobody offers that same excuse to Kerry when they talk of tyrone beating them... Shouldn't that apply to all winners?

Fair play. A point I've made myself at times.

In 2008 both Tyrone and Kerry made it to the final via the back door, so perhaps either team were fortunate to be there in the first place?
________________________
Negotiating the qualifiers does not require fortune, it is both long and tortuous and Kerry and Tyrone earned their place in that years final through sheer graft.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 12/09/2014 11:24:45    1651268

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11920

1651213
GaryMc82


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I think people sometimes jump straight on the defensive, especially if they don't know what way to Interpret a comment or part of a comment. Also here on HS, people can sometimes jump the gun depending on what county you are from. It's probably a result of ongoing slagging and perceived bias from certain people.

I think you made a valid point, and there is no harm is discussing such matters.


Retaining an All Ireland football title is something that I have a passing Interest in, as it clearly isn't an easy feat to achieve.

I think if an All Ireland winner manages to reach the All Ireland final the following year, then fatigue, lack of hunger etc won't come into it. It is generally before the All Ireland final that most reigning All Ireland Champions are caught.

2013 Champs Dublin, lost 2014 AI SF
2012 Champs Donegal, lost 2013 AI QF
2011 Champs Dublin, lost 2012 AI SF
2010 Champs Cork, lost 2011 AI QF
2009 Champs Kerry, lost 2010 AI QF
2008 Champs Tyrone, lost 2009 AI SF
2007 Champs Kerry, lost 2008 AI FINAL
2006 Champs Kerry, RETAINED TITLE.
2005 Champs Tyrone, lost 2006 Qualifiers.
2004 Champs Kerry, lost 2005 final
2003 champs Tyrone, lost 2004 QF
2002 Champs Armagh, lost 2003 final

As you can see from the small sample above, the list show's how difficult it is to reach the final again as reigning Champions.

I think if an All Ireland winner manages to reach the All Ireland final the following year, then fatigue, lack of hunger etc won't come into it. It is generally before the All Ireland final that most reigning All Ireland Champions are caught.

I honestly don't know what to say to that. Essentially you seem to be suggesting a champion losing out in a final is less of an achievement than a champion knocked out in an earlier round. A champion getting to a final has naturally overcome some of the fatigue and hunger that beset previous champions. Back to back titles is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Any champion in there on final day defending their title are doing so with great honour. Pulling off successive titles then obviously in an incredible achievement. Even making successive finals is incredibly difficult.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7882 - 12/09/2014 17:05:57    1651417