The Master...
If Kerry turn around and beat us we wouldn't be Turning the blame on Mc Guinness nor would we be blaming the referee like some counties like to do...... If Kerry won it will be because they were better on us on the day, full stop

ben1977 (Donegal) - Posts: 364 - 11/09/2014 13:18:52    1650934

lads i dont think gilroy would have much chance either to be honest but they would be better set up defensively...gilroy struggled to beat a much inferior donegal side than the 2012 and 2014 versions as the 2011 version offered very little going forward and wasnt at the same level as the 2012 or 2014 sides..gilroy did an excellent job with the dubs but i couldnt see his dublin team beating either of them donegal sides

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/09/2014 14:02:04    1650950

11/09/2014 09:50:11
TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11913

1650824 No question about it as far as Im concerned. He had a superior tactical knowledge. Even in 2013, look at the team that starts the final, and struggled. McCaffrey, Mannion etc all replaced. The team that actually made the difference was far more Gilroy-esque as regards lineup and set up. Dublin wouldn't have been caught the way they were against Donegal under Gilroy. The panic we seen creep in at the end, to me displays incorrect preparation. They hadn't expected to be behind at any stage. Even against Kerry in the semi the warning signs were there, the kevin mc goal that dragged them back into it was very fortunate and had that not gone in we could have had a very different narrative. You will always hammer poor teams playing like Dublin do under gavin, but against good teams who believe they can beat you, you will get caught.

sure James Horan similar if had won All-Ireland 2012-14 won have done with John O'Mahony.Bar Cillian O'Connor ,Lee Keegan O'Mahony(last game aginst Longford 2010) had the same group as Horan

All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers - round 1
At Pearse Park
Longford 1-12
Mayo 0-14
Mayo - D Clarke; C Barrett, G Cafferkey, K Higgins; D Vaughan, T Howley, K McLoughlin; A O'Shea, P Harte; A Moran (0-2, 1'45), S O'Shea (0-1), A Freeman (0-5, 1f); C Mortimer (0-2, 1f), B Moran (0-1), A Dillon (0-3). Subs - L O'Malley for McLoughlin (35), M Ronaldson for A O'Shea (42), T Parsons for Howley (53), WJ Padden for Harte (67

HandyMoran (Roscommon) - Posts: 327 - 11/09/2014 16:27:24    1651017

The Roscommon man hard at work with all things Roscommon again...

The differences between gavin's reign and Gilroy's was a focus speed and youth. Mannion, McCaffrey and Kilkenny were made central figures while the likes of bastick and to a lesser extend brennan were getting left behind. All the young lads were subbed early, the half-backs sat much deeper, much like Gilroy had them doing, and bastick and brennan had a big influence. That was the period that Dublin pulled away.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 11/09/2014 17:01:30    1651038

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11914

1650932
Joxer, was it committing bodies forward that got those scores though? They were kicked by orthodox forwards from distance, I don't see a connection with that and guys bombing forward from the back, in fact I see the opposite, where they had enough space to drop into a pocket and get a kick at goal away.

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Yes it was. The tactic was almost basketball like in fashion. Forwards and backs were flooding into the Donegal 45 with some fellas setting screens for the shooter to get the shot away. If you look at Flynn and Connolly's fantastic scores, they were setup by backs driving into the Donegal 45 to draw the heat before laying off to the shooter in most cases. It's almost the only way you will score against Donegal with 13 players inside their own 45. You won't do it by having 5 forwards running into a mass of yellow shirts. Gilroy tactics required that there was always several bodies back minding the house. Gavin has been gung-ho leaving 2 on 2 back there on most occasions. A lot of people have commented on Donegal's attacking potency in the semi against Dublin but really it was taking candy from a baby with the shocking manner that Dublin left themselves exposed back there. Kerry play a blanket themselves so will be interesting to see how the final pans out.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 11/09/2014 20:53:58    1651130

A lot of ifs buts & maybes on HS these days.

For my own part I think it would have been a completely different game if Gilroy was in charge.

His half back line wouldn't have gone so far forward & Donegal would have come into the game with different tactics because of that.

We will never know.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 11/09/2014 21:03:00    1651141

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 3184

1651141 A lot of ifs buts & maybes on HS these days.

For my own part I think it would have been a completely different game if Gilroy was in charge.

His half back line wouldn't have gone so far forward & Donegal would have come into the game with different tactics because of that.

We will never know.

Exactly. Would Jack o Connor have set up Kerry differently last year against Dublin than Eamon fitzmaurice did, would he have done any better He only lost by a point to us. Fitzmaurice by 7 points to us.
All ifs and buts with different players at their disposal .
After the final this year one of the managers is going to be idolised and probably a statue built for them, and the winning manager will also get credit ;)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 11/09/2014 21:18:56    1651156

One thing I have never read about this game, but I would be of the opinon of, was just how much of a loss Ger Brennan was to Dublin that day. Nothing against the lads that played half back for Dublin that day but I just think with Ger Brennan there perhaps that would have made a difference - I am not going so far as to say Dublin would have won had he been there, but I certainly don't see Donegal scoring the same amount of goals with him in the team - he was a massive loss but perhaps the Dublin lads will have a different opinion? I would be interested to hear views on that one.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 11/09/2014 21:23:39    1651162

Dublin under Pat Gilroy were very assured at the back. They had some super performances in 2010 and 2011. Their defeat of Tyrone in 2010 was something special, Tyrone finished with a mare 10 points that day I think. 11 in 2011. In 2011 against Donegal, Dublin were willing to play the games of chests until they won, under Gilroy they broke at speed from defense to attack. Kevin Nolan was a central figure in this game plan. I for one think the match a few weeks would of been much different.

222 (UK) - Posts: 695 - 11/09/2014 21:29:41    1651170

GetOverTheBar
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1132

1651162
One thing I have never read about this game, but I would be of the opinon of, was just how much of a loss Ger Brennan was to Dublin that day. Nothing against the lads that played half back for Dublin that day but I just think with Ger Brennan there perhaps that would have made a difference - I am not going so far as to say Dublin would have won had he been there, but I certainly don't see Donegal scoring the same amount of goals with him in the team - he was a massive loss but perhaps the Dublin lads will have a different opinion? I would be interested to hear views on that one.

----
Yeah well I'm a big Ger fan and have always said he was our steel at the back. All of the great teams have had an enforcer down the middle at the back... Geezer for Armagh, Gormley for Tyrone, Barr for Dublin, Galvin for Kerry, Canty for Cork and so on. Dublin are very soft centred without Ger, no doubt. Not sure whether he would have made a dent in the result but he would not have allowed the Donegal forwards the freedom of Croker. They would have been halted one way or the other that's for sure.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 11/09/2014 21:54:18    1651191

The Master

Here is a question for the guys attributing everything on to the genius of McGuinness::: what would you say if Kerry turned around and beat Donegal???
First of all I'd congratulate any Kerry person beside me on their winning Sam. Then I'd make sure (and I hope all other Donegal fans would also) that I'd give Jim McGuinness and the Donegal panel a right good applause and thank them for all the joy and excitement they gave us the last 4 years. THEY OWE US ( DONEGAL PEOPLE NOTHING)
Even last year when Mayo beats us I felt so sorry for JMcG and all the players. Best ever Donegal team. It will be disappointing to loose but that's all in the game. We have no divine right to an All Ireland but if we play well enough I still think we are capable of winning our third Sam on Sunday week

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 11/09/2014 21:58:11    1651193

ok joxer, can you tell me how many defenders were ahead of the ball when Flynn kicked his points? It wasn't anywhere near what you seem to think it was.

SamOnErrigal, that question was directed to the Dublin fans who seemed to want to attribute any failing in their own team and manager onto the genius of jim mcguinness. There is a bit of 'our team was beaten by true genius, (therefore our lads are not to blame)' going on. But the truth is that while Donegal done a lot of very good things (their foul count was unbelievably low in the first half) the reality is Dublin very much played a part in their own downfall.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/09/2014 10:09:51    1651220

this is all a wee bit hypothetical.
Donegal v Kerry is where it's at.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 12/09/2014 10:18:25    1651225

Re:
TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11917

1651220
ok joxer, can you tell me how many defenders were ahead of the ball when Flynn kicked his points? It wasn't anywhere near what you seem to think it was.

SamOnErrigal, that question was directed to the Dublin fans who seemed to want to attribute any failing in their own team and manager onto the genius of jim mcguinness. There is a bit of 'our team was beaten by true genius, (therefore our lads are not to blame)' going on. But the truth is that while Donegal done a lot of very good things (their foul count was unbelievably low in the first half) the reality is Dublin very much played a part in their own downfall.

I would agree to an extent. Do you think the Dub's were slightly egotistical also? I think they might have underestimated our much vaunted system and trusted in their own all-out gung-ho attack too much.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9161 - 12/09/2014 10:30:55    1651234

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11918

1651220
ok joxer, can you tell me how many defenders were ahead of the ball when Flynn kicked his points? It wasn't anywhere near what you seem to think it was.

SamOnErrigal, that question was directed to the Dublin fans who seemed to want to attribute any failing in their own team and manager onto the genius of jim mcguinness. There is a bit of 'our team was beaten by true genius, (therefore our lads are not to blame)' going on. But the truth is that while Donegal done a lot of very good things (their foul count was unbelievably low in the first half) the reality is Dublin very much played a part in their own downfall.

------
Who said anything about being ahead of him. The object of the exercise is to distract the millions of yellow shirts in the area. You don't do this by just having your forwards in there. That's why Philly McMahon pointed, James Mc should have and so too Jack McCaffrey. The Dublin backs were charging in there all of the time drawing the defenders and then offloading. If you play with just your front six up there every attacker will have two yellow shirts hanging out of him and not enough room to bounce a tennis ball never mind get an accurate shot away.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 12/09/2014 10:40:23    1651237

All teams in defeat will look at where they come up short. It's pub talk for some I suppose to muse over how the capital would have got on if Gilroy was in charge?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7884 - 12/09/2014 10:47:29    1651244

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11920

1651220 ok joxer, can you tell me how many defenders were ahead of the ball when Flynn kicked his points? It wasn't anywhere near what you seem to think it was.

SamOnErrigal, that question was directed to the Dublin fans who seemed to want to attribute any failing in their own team and manager onto the genius of jim mcguinness. There is a bit of 'our team was beaten by true genius, (therefore our lads are not to blame)' going on. But the truth is that while Donegal done a lot of very good things (their foul count was unbelievably low in the first half) the reality is Dublin very much played a part in their own downfall.

Probably the stupidist post ever. We are being blamed now for giving Donegal credit in their victory. If we only blamed our own players on missed chances , you would say we wont give Donegal any credit. Off course our team played a part in our Downfall thats blatenty obvious ,we lost the game and Management also has to ship some blame.
Stop trying to find an angle to twist events related to Dublin. We have acknowdlegded we were beaten by better team on the day and Wish Donegal well in the final .
I know you find that hard to take and must go and find some other angle.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 12/09/2014 11:52:08    1651279

It's a good question, not a big gap age wise, Gilroy by far the bigger man so I'd side with him :D

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8597 - 12/09/2014 12:58:45    1651310

AthCliath
Probably the stupidist post ever. We are being blamed now for giving Donegal credit in their victory. If we only blamed our own players on missed chances , you would say we wont give Donegal any credit. Off course our team played a part in our Downfall thats blatenty obvious ,we lost the game and Management also has to ship some blame.

Sorry, if it is a stupid post, then why are you going on to agree with what was said in it? How does that make sense?


Stop trying to find an angle to twist events related to Dublin. We have acknowdlegded we were beaten by better team on the day and Wish Donegal well in the final .
I know you find that hard to take and must go and find some other angle.

It appears that it is yourself that is looking for angles; ranting at me, yet agreeing with the point I made afterwards. Im just talking about the game, a Donegal poster actually agreed with me. It wasn't all down to Donegal being the better team. Dublin made them look very good for much of it. Whether you like it or not, that is a genuine talking point, and people are entitled to talk about it.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 12/09/2014 13:23:29    1651316

Pat 1
Jim 0

JackoDub (Dublin) - Posts: 458 - 12/09/2014 14:05:13    1651329