rcarragh - getting in to semantics there. My Grandfather was a Cavan man and I have many relations in the county - they will tell me to a man (or woman) that after Partition the border counties were pretty much forgotten about by the Govt and might as well have been handed over with the 6 counties. You are correct that not all of Ulster was planted - the Glens for example were left untouched due to no roads going in and the wildness of the land and the natives in this area, but from a being forgotten about stance I am sure that the people of Cavan, Donegal etc would argue that they were as much forgotten about as their fellow Irishmen (and women) in the North. From an Irish Plantation sense, the reasoning behind each one and where differ greatly e.g. in Ulster the main goal was to quell the Ulster clans as the Province was the only one which stood firm against the English so its purpose was to take the land and dilute the population while in other parts (and the earlier palntations) the main goal was to grab land to set up their own small colonies and this was met with little resistance.

To me the biggest piece of irony about Partition was that the part of the country which was signed away was traditionally the most Irish part of Ireland and the only part which stood strong against the occupying forces throughout the centuries. Yet today we still have eejits from the Republic telling us that we are not Irish. Well, newsflash time - Ireland as a country ceased to be after the Act of Union and two new states were created - the Irish Freestate and Northern Ireland, all thanks to those who decided to open the box at the dealers 2nd offer of £7000 instead of hanging on for the £250,000 box which they had possession of all the time. T'was a sad day.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 05/09/2014 12:40:04    1648372

JP91
County: Armagh
Posts: 238

Hopefully we will meet you again in Division 2 in 2016.

Prefer to meet you in Division 1 in 2017

Burnsey (Down) - Posts: 561 - 05/09/2014 13:34:01    1648399

@ Ruanua

The reason you will never see it again happening because both countries dont exist.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 05/09/2014 13:37:45    1648402

Great forum this all the same,you get the whole Irish story as frigd up as it is!! LOL. we always support whoever wins Ulster and it hasn't usually been us obviously so we are really enjoying the success that JMG has brought,Ulster is a dogfight every year,it's the only really competitive province where 4or 5 of the teams have a realistic chance of winning it every year.
Every game for us here is a battle so I suppose all other 8 Ulster counties are big rivals,depending on the draw that year.

TirChonaillabu2 (Donegal) - Posts: 344 - 05/09/2014 13:39:40    1648404

@ Ruanua

The reason you will never see it again happening because both countries dont exist.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 05/09/2014 13:45:41    1648406

rcarragh
County: Dublin
Posts: 118

1648329
Cavan v Monaghan.

Naysayer, I think you might want to review what you said regarding partition and also not all of Ulster was planted or planted at the same time.


rcarragh if you are getting into splitting hairs in that I did not state the obvious that 6 of the 9 counties were partitioned that is for you but do not let it deflect from my point. (If the demographics had been strong enough in favour of Unionists all 9 might well have been signed over happily)

While we are at it I never said all of Ulster was planted nor that it was all planted at the same time. (Parts of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan were included in the plantation of Ulster)

My point is that Ulster was historically the region of Ireland most resistant to English control - as a result Ulster was planted to attempt to deal with its rebellious nature. As Offside points out Ulster was also historically the most Gaelic part of Ireland, a province existing largely outside English control.

The resultant demographic shift after plantation meant that when those from the more obedient provinces signed their treaty 6 of Ulsters counties were partitioned.

Of course there is also what has followed as a result.

With so much significant common ground and Gaelic richness do you not it is reasonable that the Ulster counties tend to back each other more often than not?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 05/09/2014 13:58:22    1648411

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1590

I was actually commenting on the factual incorrectness of the original poster:

Ulster folk historically are used standing shoulder to shoulder - we got planted for it and then we got partitioned from the rest of the Island

You have to take posts by what people write not by what you think you mean. I'm sure Naysayer didn't mean it the way it was exactly written but it needs to be corrected. Yes?

I'm actually from a border county (not that it is really important) so I don't need the history lesson. I do wonder though that when you mentioned border counties (south of the border) you actually wrote:

Cavan, Donegal etc

Monaghan is dismissed as an etc. It's just 8 letters. Sort of backs up the point you are making about being overlooked but probably not in the way you intended.

rcarragh (Dublin) - Posts: 305 - 05/09/2014 14:02:50    1648415

One for all and all for one!

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 05/09/2014 14:12:13    1648425

rcarragh yet again you are creating a deflection from Offside's point by splitting hairs about Monaghan not being spelt out - are you a politician by any chance ;)

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 05/09/2014 14:16:41    1648427

Cavan and Monaghan would be big enough, though I would say the rivalry with Meath would be as big even though they are in Leinster.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 05/09/2014 14:21:11    1648431

SamOnErrigal
County: Donegal
Posts: 590

Once the ESB introduced electric power to Ireland:::: I think the lights went out in Cavan especially as regards Gaelic football

Jaysus it didn't take too long for some of you Donegal ones to lose the run of yourselves!

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12121 - 05/09/2014 14:23:38    1648435

Jaysus rcarragh - semantics, semantics, semantics. I am guessing you are from Monaghan given that you have specifically picked Monaghan out of the border counties missed - for info Louth and Leitrim are also border counties so the etc was to cover all thinking that people would understand and to save me a bit of typing - nothing more, nothing less. We shouldn't have to give history lessons on here but due to the revisionism that goes on sometimes a wee refresher course does no harm.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 05/09/2014 14:33:02    1648438

It really depends which teams are the biggest teams at that moment which changes all the time unlike the other three provinces
In the last decade it was Armagh v Tryone, Now its Donegal v Tyrone

Historically it must be Armagh v Down and with the new managers appointed and signs both tides could be rising, I'd expect that rivalry to be raised again soon.

As a Donegal man, Derry are our traditional rivals but Tyrone the side we've had the battles with recently. For me the team I want to beat most though is Armagh as they had our number for so long. Same I suppose could be said of Monaghan.

In truth there is no Cork Kerry in Ulster and there probably never will be.


As I said on another post, I think the behavior of some of the Donegal fans in that 2013 match in Ballybofey has soured our relationship with our Tyrone brethren. I remember getting a few beatings from them most notably in 2007 but must say I cheered ye on in 2003(well I wasnt going to cheer on Armagh after beating us) 2005 and 2008

Always find myself cheering on the Ulster teams against rest of country probably in part because of the anti Nordie bias in the media.
Some of the best matches outside Donegal would have to be:
Down beating Kerry in 2010
Tyrone battering Dublin in the quarters in 2008
All Tyrones and Armaghs All Ireland wins


Most fellas I know are the same. Is there many other Ulster fans cheering on Kerry to beat Donegal?

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 203 - 05/09/2014 15:32:36    1648466

Shaggykev

I think if you had been at the Tyrone v Donegal League game in Omagh in 2013, it might help you to understand the behaviour of some Donegal fans in Ballybofey later on in the first round of the championship! Wasn't exactly a proud day or a section of the Tyrone support!

In saying that, if its the case that Tyrone are he last Ulster county standing in the All Ireland series, I'm behind them 100% of the way!

Lifford Gael (Donegal) - Posts: 1925 - 05/09/2014 15:47:20    1648479

Lifford Gael you're 100% right. You know I actually forgot about that. Was a sickening day alright and probably didnt help our campaign in general as we peaked for that day in Ballybofey and fell away afterwards. Poor Karl got spat on in the stands by a few thugs but I wouldnt hold all Tyrone folk accountable for that.

I'm a pretty laid back guy in general that just loves GAA. I hated always losing to Armagh but never hated the Armagh team or people. Seem to come across a lot of Tyrone and Mayo folks that really detest us. Bewildering is all and not in my nature.

Probably just typical Irish begruggery that hates to see an upstart like Donegal reach the heights that we are.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 203 - 05/09/2014 15:57:27    1648488

ShaggyKev

What about the formidable Derry team of 1993 defeating Cork in a wet Croke Park and the 1 point win over Dublin in the semis?

4KHDoneill (Derry) - Posts: 182 - 05/09/2014 17:38:30    1648536

SamOnErrigal
County: Donegal
Posts: 590

Once the ESB introduced electric power to Ireland:::: I think the lights went out in Cavan especially as regards Gaelic football

Be great if the GAA began in 1992. But it didnt.

5>2

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 05/09/2014 17:48:22    1648540

Ulster v the rest of the world, Ulster wins, end of!

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 05/09/2014 18:52:19    1648573

It looks as if it'll be Kerry against the Ulster Region! ;) I could not imagine Bohemians supporting South Dublin Rovers!

Historically so Cavan v Down from what ye have to say is the genuine biggest rivalry?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7869 - 05/09/2014 18:59:35    1648576

Tyrone SFC love nothing more than kicking lumps out of each other, and that is Tyrone Achilles heel when it comes to Championship football.

fortyfive (Tyrone) - Posts: 5929 - 05/09/2014 19:46:56    1648599