I feel M Murphy is the standard out player in both teams, he will be the diff in the final, next year could be our year with Tommy Walsh and the Gooch back, the future is bright, we also have a lad called Connor keane who looks like the real deal.

kerryrowz (Kerry) - Posts: 833 - 06/09/2014 09:26:48    1648661

@ kerryrowz - That's the truth of it really. M Murphy is the standout player and could well be the difference. I'm not entirely sure why some people are bothered by Kerry being a team in transition. It has been the case since we exited the championship in 2010. Sure it is part of the reason that Kerry were not expected to win Munster and were not expected to make the All-Ireland final. In fairness to the lads, they overcame both hurdles against all the odds. Is winning the All-Ireland a step too far? Many believe it is at least a year early in terms of their development. Mayo's 2012 final was a year early for them. 2013 had to be Mayo's year and is the one championship those players and management will have the most regret about.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 06/09/2014 11:10:05    1648689

With reflection it may not be a bad idea. It's unusual for a final to be remembered for a bad ref though. I think that fearless use of the black card is something we will see. The closeline tackle is something else that can feature but now that mayo are out it is much less likely

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 06/09/2014 11:22:28    1648692

Maybe the Munster council should look at removing Kerry's seeding advantage once they have passed through this (transition)period and could be the bookies are taking that into account aswell.Seems some will always make excuses when they cant win.I suppose that's about all that needs to be said as they say.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 06/09/2014 11:26:12    1648694

06/09/2014 11:26:12
SLLY
County: Dublin
Posts: 54

1648694
Maybe the Munster council should look at removing Kerry's seeding advantage once they have passed through this (transition)period and could be the bookies are taking that into account aswell.Seems some will always make excuses when they cant win.I suppose that's about all that needs to be said as they say.

The Leinster championship also has a seeding. Congress is there for people who wish to make a change. Change can also be voted through within provincial councils. One thing seeding does is set a bar for the teams who are in the provincial semi-finals. No offence to Waterford but if they get a bye to a provincial semi-final, they are by-passing Q1 by default when they are not of that standard. I don't entirely agree with Munster and Connaught semi-finalists dropping into Q2 but that's a point I've made before.

The Munster seeding is currently up for review. They are discussing, similarly in line with the Leinster seeding, that it's the two provincial finalists, rather than naming two counties, who will get the seeding. It's also being discussed that the semi-final will be an open draw. So the provincial finalists could get drawn against each other with the other semi-final then being between the two quarter-final winners. With two teams receiving byes to the provincial semi-finals, it does make sense that those places are earned on the field of play. Leinster have the same approach for their quarter-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 06/09/2014 11:50:47    1648701

06/09/2014 11:26:12
SLLY
County: Dublin
Posts: 54

1648694
Maybe the Munster council should look at removing Kerry's seeding advantage once they have passed through this (transition)period and could be the bookies are taking that into account aswell.Seems some will always make excuses when they cant win.I suppose that's about all that needs to be said as they say.

The Leinster championship also has a seeding. Congress is there for people who wish to make a change. Change can also be voted through within provincial councils. One thing seeding does is set a bar for the teams who are in the provincial semi-finals. No offence to Waterford but if they get a bye to a provincial semi-final, they are by-passing Q1 by default when they are not of that standard. I don't entirely agree with Munster and Connaught semi-finalists dropping into Q2 but that's a point I've made before.

The Munster seeding is currently up for review. They are discussing, similarly in line with the Leinster seeding, that it's the two provincial finalists, rather than naming two counties, who will get the seeding. It's also being discussed that the semi-final will be an open draw. So the provincial finalists could get drawn against each other with the other semi-final then being between the two quarter-final winners. With two teams receiving byes to the provincial semi-finals, it does make sense that those places are earned on the field of play. Leinster have the same approach for their quarter-finals.

Well we'll stick to the facts then and forget about the so called transition period stuff . Doesn't do you any favours. In fairness most of the Kerry lads don't bother with it and accept it and move on. Kilkenny who are very much one code orientated also go through these so called transitions seamlessly and no talk of building when they loose which doesn't happen as often.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 06/09/2014 13:03:24    1648721

Its been interesting reading the opinions on this thread and in media in general in weeks since the Semi-finals. It seems most Donegal supporters and Ulster people in general are confident of a Donegal win. I think its fair Donegal are favourites given that same team won All Ireland in 2012 and they very impressively knocked out current champions to make it to the final.

A lot of my fellow county men are playing down Kerry's chances and using 'a team in transition' a lot. Again I think that's fair, Kerry are outsiders for the final and were not expected by most people to reach it (although I was probably one of the few saying consistently since end of League we had as good a chance as anyone). Eamon has done a huge rebuilding project in last 18 months and this team are really only finding their feet. We have been ranked as outsiders by bookies/media/dogs on street in every major game of this championship so far. Yet here we still stand.
BUT, as a Tyrone poster opinioned earlier Kerry cannot afford to go into a final only content to give it a lash and then roll out excuses of it being a bridge too far too soon after.
This is an All Ireland final, down here we do not accept failure at this stage. If a Kerry team is good enough to get their, the attitude is they should be good enough to win it. We have a brilliantly talented manager and backroom team, and a young side playing with passion, abaondon and without fear which is back-boned by seasoned All Ireland winning veterans. This could be the likes of Marc, Star, Aidan's and Declan's last year in a Kerry jersey we need to channel their determination to go out on top to set us up to win this game. There is no guarantees what might happen next year.
We are going on five years since our last title (an eternity in Kerry) and left an All Ireland behind us in 2011 which still wrangles down here. While I believe the lazy stereotype (loved by the media and keyboard warriors) that Kerry have issues with Ulster sides getting in their heads etc is utter tripe (any dispassionate look at the facts will reveal it as such) it is also the case that we have not done ourselves justice against the in-form Ulster side in finals in last 12 years. We need a win against a side like Donegal in the decider to shut up these 'critics' (or anti-Kerry begrudgers as I see them) at least for a while.

In effect, I believe Kerry can draw on a lot to ensure they go into this game ready to burst their lungs for victory. I get the feeling that Donegal had themselves psyched up to such a pitch for the Dublin game, it will be hard to motivate themselves to get to that level again, even if its a final. I also can't see the Donegal forwards putting in another performance like that, last Sunday was one of those days when everything just seemed to go Donegal's way.

I also believe that outside this county, all the pressure will be on Doengal. They will go into this game as favourites (something they have not been in major game so far this year) and all I've seen in past week is the media praising Jimmy to the hilt and discussing and dissecting Donegal's epic victory. I think the national media will heap huge pressure on Donegal because anything to do with McGuiness sells papers. This will suit us down to the ground, the young lads have thrived under a cloud of little expectation from national media and GAA supporter at large. To sum up, I believe all the ingredients are there for Kerry to give their best performance of the year, whether its enough or not I can't say but I am confident it will be.

One other point, I have to laugh when I heard people on here saying Kerry are playing 'defensive'. Has the definition of defensive changed in last 12 months or something? I never realised that a team which does not commit 13 or 14 players to attack once they have possession is defensive. Its a fair acquirement to be playing with some sort of blanket defence and score 111 points (22.2 per match) so far!!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 06/09/2014 13:26:09    1648728

One code orientated Silly?? Maybe stick to what you know because you seem to know sweet F-A about Kerry hurling and its standard! Regards, a proud north Kerry hurling man!!!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 06/09/2014 13:28:16    1648731

Cian o'neill our trainer said we won't see the full potential of this team till year 3 and this is only year 2, and kerryrowz Conor Keane is some talent for sure, looking forward to seeing more of him next year c

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 06/09/2014 14:00:46    1648738

The hermit
You are dead right about attitude and if Donegal did not have the right attitude last Sunday they would not have won.
It's great to be meeting Kerry in a final to be honest, especially for a man like me, 50 years following Donegal football. Well remember when we could not win Ulster, that would have been massive for us in the sixties. Now here we are meeting Kerry not alone in the Senior final but also the minor final. It's our first minor final and what opposition we have.
The only think would worry me about the senior final would be the following:::: Kerry have lost the last three finals they played against Ulster Teams:::will they put that right on 21/9/14
Since the Sixties I think Tyrone were the last Ulster team they beat(1986)so on the law of averages they can beat Donegal.
Might be they have a mental block about Ulster teams, well Ulster teams have a decent record against Kerry. On a lighter note only for Ulster teams you would not be able to count the no of AI's Kerry would have
But I think it will be all on the day, I think we are a bit further down the road than Kerry, our defence is better IMO plus our forwards are as good. Midfield will be down to tactics , did Kerry not bypass midfield against Galway and I thought at the start Kerry thought their midfield was not great. I thought they were very good against Mayo. I do hope Donegal wins(both games)as I will have seen it all over the last 50 years. The minor title is the one still missing. Saw the under 21's in their first final, Seniors in their first final and they won both Now it's the minors turn. If they win we will have won Senior, minor and under21 at the first time of asking. DONEGAL FOREVER

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 06/09/2014 14:05:54    1648741

SLLY
County: Dublin

Well we'll stick to the facts then and forget about the so called transition period stuff . Doesn't do you any favours. In fairness most of the Kerry lads don't bother with it and accept it and move on. Kilkenny who are very much one code orientated also go through these so called transitions seamlessly and no talk of building when they loose which doesn't happen as often.

I've stuck to the fact that both Leinster and Munster have a seeding system. Why you wish to speak of Munster's seeding and not Leinster's is only a question you can answer.

Kerry being in transition since we exited the 2010 Championship is also a fact. Being without the departed Tommy Walsh and the two cruciates of Moran has meant a long period of rebuilding. There has been acceptance of this within the Kingdom and it's the reason there wasn't too much of an expectation this year. What the lads have done has been fantastic and within the kingdom they've been getting the credit they deserve for landing a Munster title and an All-Ireland place against all the odds.

We are very much accepting our period of transition and as we have been doing for the last number of years, we are very much getting up and getting on with it thank you very much!

We are not one code orientated either. Our hurlers did us proud this year. They were denied a place in 1B due to what has been accepted as an unfair play-off.

The Hermit is hitting on a point. People want to make a lot of the fact that Kerry have lost out to Ulster teams in All-Ireland finals. Teams face battles at many stages of the championship. 3 of Kerry's last 6 All-Irelands were won by beating the Ulster champion along the way. 2002 was Armagh's day and noone in Kerry begrudged them that. Many felt Páidí Ó'Sé might have come under more pressure for that result only for the fact it was generally accepted it was Armagh's day and it was a marvellous occasion for them on winning their first All-Ireland. Tyrone deserve huge credit for raising the intensity bar in 2003. Kerry responded to the new challenge at the time by winning 4 of the next 6 All-Irelands. People have a preference of focussing on the 2 they lost out on. 2005 when they were there on All-Ireland final day trying to win back-to-back All-Ireland titles, as the capital can appreciate is a hard thing to do, even to make the final itself after winning. 2008 then Kerry had actually won back-to-back titles in '06 and '07 and they were there again on All-Ireland final day, their fifth All-Ireland final appearance in-a-row at the time, attempting to win a 3 in-a-row. Kerry went on to make a sixth All-Ireland final appearance in-a-row in 2009 and in the process went on to win their 5th All-Ireland of the decade. Kerry played in 9 All-Ireland finals between '00 and '09. ('00 final went to a replay!)

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 06/09/2014 16:15:28    1648779

Yerrah yeah. It won't be a classic. Donegal to score more goals. Kerry to win if they can score one and keep on the right side of the ref. History and tradition? My arse! Whoever prepares betters and exe cutes to perfection wins. Simple

plike (Kerry) - Posts: 569 - 06/09/2014 16:26:19    1648782

Very true Legend, some people can be very selective and like to pick out a match here and there from the record books to support an idiotic theory about Kerry and Ulster teams without acknowledging any context of those games. I wonder if other counties outside Ulster lost finals in the context of 2005 or 2008 (ie going for back to back of three in a row) would people question them having supposed hang ups about Ulster sides. I doubt it, again its just a lazy stereotype thrown out to take another dig at Kerry.

Anyway, I'll reiterate that while many people acknowledge that Kerry have overachieved this year we must not use that as an excuse for the final itself. We have a great chance of winning and we need to acknowledge this and go for it. All very well stating that this is year two of three ears plan etc etc, but when you are presented with an opportunity and show you are good enough its a failure on the team's part if they don't do everything humanely possible to take the chance.

If on the day we simply come up against a better side than so be it, no shame in losing once you have left everything out on the pitch, as Mayo did last week. But we cannot let slip another final like 2011 when we did not play to our potential for most of the second half.

I believe Eamon will have that squad believing they could win even if they were facing the pick of Ireland, I believe he will have quiet a few tricks to unhinge McGuinness and Donegal and not let them impose their game on the field. I believe Sam will be in Tralee for winter!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 06/09/2014 16:32:02    1648784

Yup. Kerry are now preparing for their 9th all Ireland final in 13 years. They also did what many said was impossible and retained the title in 2007 (and they came within a game of winning the three in a row) its unbelieveable stuff in an era when football has been so competitive. Armagh and Tyrone have come and gone, yet the kingdom remain, and theres a good chance theyll be here long after Donegal exit stage left too. How so many of ye see it fit to slag them off is beyond me.
If my county had even 1/4 of their success and consistency id be delighted. I do fancy Donegal for this title, but I dont think Kerry will have to wait too long for their next one.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 06/09/2014 16:32:55    1648786

Maybe too much is made of this Kerry v Ulster teams stuff. When Kerry lose to Ulster teams generally it's a because they were beaten by a excellent team, like Down in the sixties or Tyrone in the noughties. I was going to say maybe Ulster teams were a bit less intimidated by Kerry teams but Philip Jordan said in the Irish News the other week that he had a great fear of the Kerry players. That's just one person though but still thought it was interesting.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 06/09/2014 16:35:12    1648788

some merit to it though outside of tyrone defeats with a very inferior down side knocking kerry out recently

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 06/09/2014 16:40:57    1648792

Didn't see that Michael and its very interesting to hear that. I personally don't think Kerry players every thought Tyrone had a hex on them or anything but Tomas hit the nail on the head when we said not beating them did wrangle with them and was seen as a failure. Its a pity Tyrone and Kerry couldn't have meet every year in Championship between 2003-2009 when both were in their prime, it would have been interesting to see how results might have panned out. Just unlucky that year's we did meet Tyrone were better team on given day, if it was 2004/06/07/09 the result would probably have gone Kerry's way.

The fact is, people look to 2002-2010 and simply equate that the fact that Kerry's main loses in this period were against Ulster teams, means they have had problem with Ulster. They use fact Kerry were beaten by a wonderful Down team in 1960s as historical proof of the validity of this theory.

However, if you substituted the words 'Ulster team' for Kerry losing to 'that year's eventual All Ireland champions' the record takes on its proper significance. With exception of 2001 and 2010, in the 13 years of the All Ireland championships Kerry have only been knocked beaten by the eventual winners (Tyrone 2003/05/05, Dublin 2011/13).

That's 13 seasons, won six, lost in other seven 7. This year to make it a 50% record of All Ireland successes in 14 years if we beat Donegal. Any other county ever going to come close to that???

We won't fear Donegal because they are an Ulster team and we won't be beaten by them because they are an Ulster team. If we lose its because they are the better team on the day, like Tyrone were before them!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 06/09/2014 17:06:01    1648796

Come and gone. In Munster alone Tipp and limerick were strong in football, but are both gone for almost a century. Otherwise Kildare, Wexford, Louth, Offaly, Roscommon, Mayo, Cavan Tyrone and Armagh have all at some stage bested the Kingdom, however they have all gone but the Kerry men keep marching on. Only Down have come off unscathed in battles with them and Galway, though often beaten, remain almost ongoing formidable opponents for them. Of course Dublin have had many fine battles with but they have won back to back titles only once in the past ninety years, so their record hardly compares with that of the Kingdom.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4331 - 06/09/2014 17:10:07    1648798

An inferior Down side that got to an All Ireland final and could/should have won it!

How inferior were they really??? Down ambushed the reginining All Ireland champions in a Q-final, the same thing Mayo did to Cork in 2011 and Mayo did to Donegal in 2013. Do Cork and Donegal have some mental issue with Mayo because of this, by you're logic they must have. I was at 2010 game, fair to say Kerry just weren't at the races and compounded things by missing 2-3 golden goal chances that could have swung the game back towards them. Just one of those days every team has them.

Bar 2006/7, ever All Ireland winner since 1990 has been knocked out the following year. Again Fabio this is an example of lazy stereotyping, randomly latching on to one result to justify something that has no basis in fact.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 06/09/2014 17:12:28    1648799

Armagh must be given credit for following up their '02 title by making the final in '03. '03 was the first all-Ulster final. There were two all-Munster finals in '07 and '09. If that stat was the other way around we would be hearing a lot of how there was more all-Ulster finals than any other province. We simply look at the opponent rather than their province. Before the '06 quarter-final, there was all talk of Kerry and a northern hex. When Kerry beat the Ulster champions Armagh in that '06 quarter-final, people had to look elsewhere! It's also must be noted, in all of Kerry's last 6 All-Irelands, they've always had to beat an Ulster team along the way. For that reason, once we beat Mayo last Saturday, it was written in the stars than an Ulster team would make the final. Donegal are going to be a tough opponent no doubt. To the victors on the day will go the spoils.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7868 - 06/09/2014 17:24:52    1648802