In fairness the resources at Dublin's disposal do matter, it's idiotic to suggest otherwise. That's not belittling their achievements at all, as they fully deserve all they get, but it's good to be honest and try to differentiate and explain what's happening here.

Dublin undoubtedly have good coaches, and a large volume of top quality players within the current senior crop - players who as we've discussed get out of bed at all hours of the morning to train, making serious sacrifices in their social lives, diet etc...
Now obviously Jim McGuinness doesn't realise this, and is being disrespectful to Dublin by saying this.
All other counties don't engage this type of commitment \ preparation at all, meaning they now lag behind, right? :-) Well that's sarcasm folks, as other counties do invest the same amount of time and effort (top 6 anyway), what Jim was trying to say is the sheer level of resources at their (Dublin's) disposal have been massively influential in seeing them forge ahead of the chasing pack significantly.

Personally i think (and hope) similar resources and methods will improve in other counties in the near future, along with Dublin reaching a plateau.
Let's not kid ourselves, other counties have players that are just as naturally gifted as Dublin at the minute, in the case of Kerry and Mayo, probably more naturally gifted footballers.
I said this in an earlier thread, but lets wait for a while, until the end of the next championship season at least before we resign ourselves to impending defeat for the next 2 decades.

fire_in_belly (Donegal) - Posts: 59 - 19/08/2014 17:29:34    1638978

I don't see anyone making themselves out as victims. The Dublin set-up and backroom team is very well run and maximises the resources available but without the quality on the pitch and in the dug-out it counts for little as we have seen in previous years.

Really? I see a sizeable group of Dublin fans saying people are envious/moaning/playing mind games/you name it when someone only states what is a well made and genuine point. Basically everyone is out to get them, despite the point being totally reasonable. That is playing the victim all day long.

As regards making the most of those resources, it strikes me how many times I have to make this point - 31 other counties would crawl over hot coals to get the chance to make the most of those resources. It reminds me of the billionaire's son who pats himself on the back for creating a successful business.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 19/08/2014 17:37:24    1638984

Good post by the Hermit.


I would argue that because the GAA is an amateur organisation is should impose a cap on expenditure (for senior teams only) to level the playing field. An amateur sporting contest should not be influenced by who has the deepest pockets, the system should be designed to correct the imbalance in sponsorship/playing numbers.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 19/08/2014 17:40:18    1638987

Didn't Mayo spend 700k last year TheMaster!?

When are they gonna throw Leitrim a few quid!?

Don't Mayo have a massive advantage over most Connaught teams!?

Any chance of addressing this before talking about Dublin!?

The truth is Mayo actually spent MORE than Dublin last year if you take the Dublin hurlers budget seperate to the footballers.

So now the emperor has no clothes....... Dress up that Mayo "advantage".

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 19/08/2014 18:11:40    1638997

In fairness the resources at Dublin's disposal do matter, it's idiotic to suggest otherwise. That's not belittling their achievements at all, as they fully deserve all they get, but it's good to be honest and try to differentiate and explain what's happening here.

Dublin undoubtedly have good coaches, and a large volume of top quality players within the current senior crop - players who as we've discussed get out of bed at all hours of the morning to train, making serious sacrifices in their social lives, diet etc...
Now obviously Jim McGuinness doesn't realise this, and is being disrespectful to Dublin by saying this.
All other counties don't engage this type of commitment \ preparation at all, meaning they now lag behind, right? :-) Well that's sarcasm folks, as other counties do invest the same amount of time and effort (top 6 anyway), what Jim was trying to say is the sheer level of resources at their (Dublin's) disposal have been massively influential in seeing them forge ahead of the chasing pack significantly.

Personally i think (and hope) similar resources and methods will improve in other counties in the near future, along with Dublin reaching a plateau.
Let's not kid ourselves, other counties have players that are just as naturally gifted as Dublin at the minute, in the case of Kerry and Mayo, probably more naturally gifted footballers.
I said this in an earlier thread, but lets wait for a while, until the end of the next championship season at least before we resign ourselves to impending defeat for the next 2 decades.

@fire in the belly. Kerry and mayo have more naturally gifted players. Please expand on that point... Because I'd love to know. Naturally gifted. Ffs.

bluedubstar (Dublin) - Posts: 835 - 19/08/2014 18:12:22    1638999

tirawleybaron that would make sense given the GAA's stated ethos but how come its not happening and there are no indications the GAA is willing to go down this route? Plus we all know about the under the table payments going on at every level, so how could GAA enforce this maximum expenditure on senior teams?

I personally think that if the GAA does not want to go the route of total professionalism it needs to impose these sort of constraints on counties as well as imposing on each individual CB the structure models I highlighted in my earlier post.

The GAA is now faced with a situation (developing over last few years) where the amount of preparation and work going into preparing elite county teams in terms of money spent, and backroom staff employed has surpassed anything they ever envisaged. I personally see the professionalisation of rugby in Ireland and its huge uptake in popularity as a massive influence on this.

IMO the GAA has two choices: They can either do nothing and let the present situation continue resulting in the financial gap between elite counties and minnows (which Jimmy talked about in the interview) grow ever wider or else, if they are serious about keeping onto their ethos, they need to step in and ensure that each county has the same max budget and same structures put in place to maximise the potential of their playing pool talent. Its then up to each individual county board to do so.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 19/08/2014 18:15:16    1639001

Maybe he was talking about the supporters.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 19/08/2014 18:29:00    1639005

I do not know what all the fuss is about.

Everyone knows Dublin have superior resources to every other county in Ireland both financially and probably more importantly in numbers.

But having more resources is no guarantee of success - Dublin themselves have proven this over most of the last 30 years.

Right now Dublin are managing those resources properly and seeing success as a result.

If they continue to manage these resources properly they will be hard to live with but as they have shown in the past there are no guarantees so everyone should relax, give the their dues now and strive to succeed them in the time ahead.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 19/08/2014 18:37:45    1639010

That is just the reality of it. Dublin seem to want to be seen as a great gaa county, up there with Kerry, but that will never happen in their current guise. That is just the reality of it.


Master, you're surely not suggesting that our recent and possible future achievements were and will be tainted, are you???

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 19/08/2014 18:57:08    1639020

Well said JayP. The truth. I'd say Mayo hurlers were lucky to be given a set of jersies. We have 30 adult leagues, a multiple of that underage, and county teams in ALL CLG sports at every age. We bring in vastly more money than anyone else so not going to apologise for our pro rata share.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 19/08/2014 18:58:03    1639021

I agree.Whats all the fuss about?I never thought us Dubs were overly sensitive but a few obviously are.A nbothing comment from McGuinness.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 19/08/2014 19:00:00    1639022

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11727

1638972
Donegalman
A very fair point

No its not. Splitting 1 team up to match the lowest populated team, while ignoring all others, is very different to splitting up one team that has 10 times the population of the average county and is a mile out in front of everyone. The first example solves no problem at all, and actually removes a high quality side from a competition that is short on high quality sides, while the other removes one team that are far too strong and replaces them with 2 teams that have 5 times the average population n their own right - or in other words 2 very capable sides.

But if you want to go down that facetious route, will Dublin be getting split up to match Longford?

To answer this, no I dont want or expect Dublin to be ever split up, it just doesnt make sense. And furthermore, no one ever called for Tyrone or Kerry to be split up in the last decade despite the way they railroaded the opposition, apart from when they met each other that is.

We have got to be honest here. Either you accept that things are at a certain level and aspire to reach it, or you are not at the races. You cant play favorites about who gets what, and what is fair and unfair when you are a smaller fish in a big pool, while you are a really big fish in a small pool on the other hand. It simply doesnt add up.

Mayo has a population of about 150000 at least. Leitrim has a population 6 times less. There is a huge disadvantage there, but there is no solution either to handicaping the bigger team to allow the smaller team a chance. The only way around this is if the teams go fully pro, and have a similar system to that in the American Football League, where the teams who finish weakest get the most money at the end of the year, to make the compeition more level.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 19/08/2014 19:30:43    1639036

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11727



Really? I see a sizeable group of Dublin fans saying people are envious/moaning/playing mind games/you name it when someone only states what is a well made and genuine point. Basically everyone is out to get them, despite the point being totally reasonable. That is playing the victim all day long.
- Bit of a stretch to say Dublin fans see themselves as victims, we are actually very happy with life right now but thanks for your concern. Some said Jim's comments were mind games, others said there was nothing in it....it's called having an opinion.

As regards making the most of those resources, it strikes me how many times I have to make this point - 31 other counties would crawl over hot coals to get the chance to make the most of those resources. It reminds me of the billionaire's son who pats himself on the back for creating a successful business - Yes of course they would, did anyone argue otherwise? My point that you have avoided all along is that Dublin finally have a winning team primarily because of the quality of the players and management. We have always had larger resources than most and probably always will but history tell us that success will not always follow.

By the way I wouldn't have an issue with a spending cap being introduced for county teams, I wouldn't hold out much faith in it being policed fairly but agree with it in principle.

bubba83 (Dublin) - Posts: 333 - 19/08/2014 19:30:49    1639037

Liam and Henryhill.

Clearly neither of you have read the article. If you have read the article the you have not understood it.

To be honest judging by your respective reactions that's no surprise.

I've read some tripe on here but this is a new low.

Cleatus (Donegal) - Posts: 125 - 19/08/2014 19:39:16    1639041

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 11727

1638984
I don't see anyone making themselves out as victims. The Dublin set-up and backroom team is very well run and maximises the resources available but without the quality on the pitch and in the dug-out it counts for little as we have seen in previous years.

Really? I see a sizeable group of Dublin fans saying people are envious/moaning/playing mind games/you name it when someone only states what is a well made and genuine point. Basically everyone is out to get them, despite the point being totally reasonable. That is playing the victim all day long.

As regards making the most of those resources, it strikes me how many times I have to make this point - 31 other counties would crawl over hot coals to get the chance to make the most of those resources. It reminds me of the billionaire's son who pats himself on the back for creating a successful business.

-----
Well what are these 'huge resource advantages' that Dublin has and are the envy of every other county?

- Money - well Mayo CB spent almost exactly 50% of what Dublin CB did in 2012 yet Mayo only has 10% of the population. In population terms Mayo spent approx €11 per head of population. Dublin spent less than €3 per head, supporting both codes. So Mayo have a lack of money? No they don't.

- full-time coaches. Well how do you get them? With money of course. But Mayo doesn't have any! Yes it does. They spent €1.75m in 2012 on something. Magic beans maybe! It's not how much money you have it's what you do with it. Anyone listen to Donal Og on Sunday re Cork's investment in a centre of excellence? He was spot on.

- yes but Dublin has a bigger population. Ok but Cork has twice the population of Mayo and Mayo is a better team. Galway has twice the population also and Mayo is a better team. Concluding that bigger population = better team is just lazy analysis and doesn't stack up when you look at the history of Sam and Liam winners.

- what about sponsorship? Well GAA is big money now with Sky deals and global audiences so really if the county board of a reasonably successful county, like Mayo for example, can't strike a decent deal with a big company then they are not doing their job. Big name teams will always attract big name sponsors but you have to have the right people brokering the deals. The DCB cannot be held accountable for shortcomings in the business dept of other county boards.

- what about home advantage? Undoubtedly Dublin would feel more at home in CP than most teams and this would prove fairly advantageous in early championship rounds. However in the latter stages this advantage is severely diluted as the more established counties come up to play the Dubs. Let's look at last year's AI final against Mayo. By the time Mayo reached the final I think it was the fifth time that they played there in the space of 7 months. Would their players be 'unfamiliar' with the ground and the surroundings? No. What about the partisan crowd? What partisan crowd? Mayo fans outnumbered Dublin fans in last year's final.

So all in all I think the only conclusion that one can come to is that yes Dublin are investing a lot of money, proportionately less than other counties, but investing money is no substitute for extremely hard work put in by volunteers at grassroots level and a lot of grind at county board level to put sound structure and organisation around an aggressive plan to develop GAA in the capital. Where there's a will there's a way.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 19/08/2014 19:44:54    1639042

Of course the dubs have an advantage over smaller counties, in the same way that a county like Cork or Galway would have an advantage over a county like Mayo, Donegal or Kerry, but I wouldnt be too bothered over what Jim McGuinness says to be honest.
If any team are like Chelsea ON the pitch its Donegal (although in fairness to the blues Donegal are probably a bit more defensive).

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 19/08/2014 20:44:26    1639079

I was hoping to be compared with Barca during their great run or the all conquering AllBlacks (we even have their jersey in blue) , Bayern Munich would of done.
But f..king Chelski. That's it all gloves are off for the semis now.
How could you Jim ;)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 19/08/2014 20:59:43    1639091

People on HS have reached a new low. I honestly believe that the likes of JMG should just stop doing interviews. The public read into everthing too much. It was a nothing interview. I actaully know he has profound respect for Jim Gavin and Dublin. As he said himself a few weeks back ,he is often misquoted. The journalist on this occasion must be laughing .

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 19/08/2014 21:17:47    1639098

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 432

1639098
People on HS have reached a new low. I honestly believe that the likes of JMG should just stop doing interviews. The public read into everthing too much. It was a nothing interview. I actaully know he has profound respect for Jim Gavin and Dublin. As he said himself a few weeks back ,he is often misquoted. The journalist on this occasion must be laughing .

------
Yeah I haven't read much into it myself to be honest. It's also a win win situation for JMcG in that if he loses he will point to the many 'advantages' that Dublin have, and which he conveniently pointed out ahead of the day of reckoning, and if he wins he will be offered the freedom of Letterkenny. I'm sure while a lot of people won't read too much into it, Jimmy knew that it would cause a bit of a stir and shift some focus onto Dublin's 'professional' setup.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 19/08/2014 21:44:33    1639113

our players are born and bred dubs from irish immigrants not bought from world wide countries with billions,a few washers from aig hardly compares to the russian billions

D5dub (Dublin) - Posts: 283 - 19/08/2014 21:57:00    1639121