Mc Guinness has done very well with Donegal,but his players are wilting under his demands and Dublin will come through by about 6 points in the semi final. Comparing Dublin to Chelsea is completely over the top and Mc Guinness knows it. The success of the Northern counties from Down 91 right through to Donegal 2013 has been good for the game. However this success has brought with it a lot of mixed coaching jargon from the world of professional rugby and soccer. The Northern coaches have successfully complicated a simple game. The jargon goes on and on "breaking lines","phase after phase","blanket defence","second ball" "full court press","defence and offense" etc ,etc.etc ad nauseaum

Jim Mc Guinness successfully redefined and organised the game.Ditto---Eamon Coleman,Pete Mc Grath,Art Mc Crory,Mickey Harte,John Morrison,Mickey Moran,Joe Kiernan, . The Armagh template[Kiernan,Mc Nultys and Grimley]spread its net far and wide. All have run their course based on trophies won[ the serious varieties] for example provincial titles,All Irelands, and National Leagues in the last calendar year. All the templates have been further redefined by Jim Gavin and his thirty talented players.

Jims Chelsea analogy is having a pop at Dublin because his own players are raging against the inevitable fading light.A light which will be extinguished without mercy in the semi.

Dublin had millions in sponsorship money from various commercial entities between 1995 and 2011.There wsasnt a word of complaint from anybody outside of Dublin during those barren years when Sam Maguire was absent.

Brinsley Swartz (Mayo) - Posts: 2225 - 22/08/2014 13:06:25    1640443

TheRightStuff - fair play for owning up. Wasn't having a go at you but in the midst of all the dub bashing felt the need to point out last year's fixture list.

Richieq - I lived in Meath for 5-6 years in the 90s and was involved in the local club, along with a handful of other dubs whose kids played there I hasten to add. I did fundraising and I even donned the jersey for a while. Your bitter attempt to slur the dubs again with your 'fundraiser for local clubs being told to f£^k off by fellas in Dubs jersies' really speaks volumes about you. Like I said I lived there for several years and never had any issues with fellow dubs or indeed from Meath locals who accepted that they had dubs in their midst and didn't mind seeing the blue flags hanging out the windows.

Meath CB expenditure in 2012 1.35m approx. Population 180000 approx. clubs about 50 I think

Dublin expenditure in 2012 3.1m approx. Population 1300000 approx. clubs 210 approx.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 22/08/2014 14:24:05    1640474

Really getting tired and bored of this thread. Posting are becoming irrelevant and an excuse for certain individuals to have a pop at one another. The simple fact of the matter is that Dublin have two all-irelands in the last three years, 2 in the previous 28 years and yet they are now being torn apart for their recent success by attributing it to sponsorship, resources, professional players who have sponsored cars etc. etc. etc. Look they are one of the top teams and as long as other counties and their county boards sit on their backsides moaning and whining rather than get on with things then these counties will never improve. Never a word about kilkenny winning the 8 out of the last 10 hurling all-irelands. Is this down to money, professional players, conditioning etc etc. Never a word when kerry win 4-5 all-irelands in every decade, obviously this is down to resources and money etc. etc. Then you have Banty coming out with the verbal crap that he did. Sure he was well looked after in meath, known fact and what did he bring to the table. Great way to spend money!!!!! Invest in the underage and don't use the excuse of lack of resources. What resources did meath have in the 80's and 90's, they got on with things and that is why they were successful. Too many counties looking for excuses to why they are not competing, emigration, no resources, no coaches, no facilties. Just drive around ireland and you will see club grounds with the most brilliant facilties etc. etc. Really tired of this anti-dublin theme that seems to have grown legs in the last couple of months.

Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 22/08/2014 14:52:39    1640494

Richieq - I lived in Meath for 5-6 years in the 90s and was involved in the local club, along with a handful of other dubs whose kids played there I hasten to add. I did fundraising and I even donned the jersey for a while. Your bitter attempt to slur the dubs again with your 'fundraiser for local clubs being told to f£^k off by fellas in Dubs jersies' really speaks volumes about you. Like I said I lived there for several years and never had any issues with fellow dubs or indeed from Meath locals who accepted that they had dubs in their midst and didn't mind seeing the blue flags hanging out the windows.

Not trying to slur at all, and if you read what I said properly you would understand that, I speak the truth from experience and if that doesn't suit your reality well then that's fine. There are a lot of fine, very fine, Dublin people who break their backs for the local GAA in Meath and I know a lot of them as friends, but sadly not all of them do that and those that don't tend to be the summer supporters who forget that they are Dubs in the winter but have an epiphany every June when championship starts, yet these are the first in line to give out about the local club and the crap football that their kids have to play in Meath. I have no issue with any man from any county flying his flag in Meath so you can stop that notion straight away. Try addressing some of the points raised instead regarding differences in funding instead of berating me for disagreeing with your notions. I am far from bitter about Dublin or anyone but I make my point as I see fit and I agree with the sentiment of what McGuinness, and today Banty, say about Dublin in that they now have a financial juggernaut on the tracks. And in relation to someone saying Dublin always had good financial backing back in the 90's well yes they had but nothing compared to now, they didn't have official partners for food and water back then or Toyota cars back then or a merchandising manager or an ex boxing champion on the backroom team or a huge multinational as a sponsor, the Dublin of the 90's and 00's is not comparible with the Dublin of today and to disagree with Jim McGuinness the Kerry of 10 years ago is not comparable with Dublin as Kerry had no where near the resources or financial clout of Dublin today, they just had talented exceptional footballers and a proven system of producing winners.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 22/08/2014 15:00:33    1640495

Brinsley Swartz
County: Mayo
Posts: 1850

1640443
Mc Guinness has done very well with Donegal,but his players are wilting under his demands and Dublin will come through by about 6 points in the semi final. Comparing Dublin to Chelsea is completely over the top and Mc Guinness knows it. The success of the Northern counties from Down 91 right through to Donegal 2013 has been good for the game. However this success has brought with it a lot of mixed coaching jargon from the world of professional rugby and soccer. The Northern coaches have successfully complicated a simple game. The jargon goes on and on "breaking lines","phase after phase","blanket defence","second ball" "full court press","defence and offense" etc ,etc.etc ad nauseaum


Jargon brought in by whom? Pundits in an rte studio, or coaches and managers on a sideline?

Successfully complicated a simple game is a very open ended statement. If it were still a simple game, what would it be like? Good old fashioned shoulder charging, drop kicks into the full forwards from anywhere even not in range I could make a very amusing list here. Thinking that the game of gaelic football was once a glorious spectacle is a bit naive. Go onto youtube and have a look thru the archives of some of the matches from the 1980s. It is horrific to watch.

Maybe, just maybe Mayo will add themselves to the list of all ireland winners, but will they win it the old fashioned way? or by modern ways? or by jumping on players backs to try and run the last 5 minutes down if they need to?

Not trying to be smart, but we all bring some baggage to the table, and I would not for a second be critical of any team who has won the title over the last while. They have all been won the hard way, bar Kerry in 2009!

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/08/2014 15:01:59    1640496

Never a word about kilkenny winning the 8 out of the last 10 hurling all-irelands. Is this down to money, professional players, conditioning etc etc.

Kilkenny are basically a hurling only county, that's the choice of most players they want to play hurling and will die for it, yes they have good sponsorship but they have pure brilliant hurlers and that's the main reason for success. Dublin hurling has improved immeasurably and that is great to see but despite the money put into Dublin hurling they still only got to surmount the Cats on two occasions at senior level.

Never a word when kerry win 4-5 all-irelands in every decade, obviously this is down to resources and money etc. etc.

Every team that wins an All Ireland needs financial backing but like Kilkenny above Kerry are an extraordinary county where football is a religion and the continuing production of top class players is remarkable, now like the Cats they have had barren periods of 10-11 years but they are a constant and always come back for periods of serious dominance and don't need oodles of cash to do it.

Then you have Banty coming out with the verbal crap that he did. Sure he was well looked after in meath, known fact and what did he bring to the table. Great way to spend money!!!!! Invest in the underage and don't use the excuse of lack of resources. What resources did meath have in the 80's and 90's, they got on with things and that is why they were successful.

I'm no fan of Banty and yes he was looked after but at least we were transparent about it like other counties, in the 80's and 90's we had Kepak and they were, for the time, very good sponsors who even leant their helicopter to transport players who lived down to country to training and matches. We also had a magical man called Sean Boylan who convinced many to help the teams out and it was no coincidence that when Sean left so did Kepak. We are trying to invest in underage development and all our underage squads train and play in the soon to be finished Dunganny, a facility I believe is important as players need to see that the County Board believes in providing proper facilities in which to train, develop and be treated in case of injury.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 22/08/2014 15:19:59    1640506

Richieq- weren't kepak meath's official steak partner in the 80s and 90s. Maybe if the had them back it might see them win more than 2 games in the championship. That is it steak was the reason meath were once good, kerry were good because of the co-op and dublin are good because of toyota and water. Get down of your high horse.

Adamski (Dublin) - Posts: 339 - 22/08/2014 15:22:46    1640510

Adamski
County: Dublin
Posts: 73

1640510
Richieq- weren't kepak meath's official steak partner in the 80s and 90s. Maybe if the had them back it might see them win more than 2 games in the championship. That is it steak was the reason meath were once good, kerry were good because of the co-op and dublin are good because of toyota and water. Get down of your high horse.

I'll have a large glass of whatever your having because it's obviously good stuff.........if you wish to engage in the conversation please try and make some semblance of sense in your comments.

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 22/08/2014 15:43:15    1640524

On Jimmy McG himself, i think he's easily the best manager on the Football scene at the moment and one AI title away from being one of the best ever. He's certainly one of the most talked about ever already. Whether he does win the second AI or not depends on whether he goes after this year to concentrate on his job with Celtic. It might be a game too far this season to defeat Dublin. It's hard to believe where we were 4 years ago. I remember dreaming about what it would be like to win an Ulster, now we're at the top of the pile and show no signs of wilting, with some great young talent coming through to join the lads who have an AI medal.
An AI was in the bag after 2 years of his reign and now we're back again mixing it with the best team in the country at the moment for a place in the final. All in a county with a relatively poor tradition and history in terms of the GAA, now changed for good.
It should give hope to the smaller less traditional counties.
Well done Jimmy for all you've done, take a bow!

fire_in_belly (Donegal) - Posts: 59 - 22/08/2014 15:51:26    1640534

Fire in belly
I wouldnt agree
i wouldnt swap Jim Gavin for Jimmy in a fit

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 22/08/2014 15:54:21    1640536

Liamwalkinstown
County: Dublin
Posts: 5798

1640536
Fire in belly
I wouldnt agree
i wouldnt swap Jim Gavin for Jimmy in a fit

We wouldn't swap either but truth be told neither manager would suit the other's job. Gavin wouldn't last 10 minutes in Donegal because his style of play is completely alien to us & the same with JMcG in Dublin.

We are both fortunate to have managers that suit us so well.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/08/2014 16:13:44    1640550

Muck at this rate i am gonna have to start calling you Kofi!!
Or Ban Ki !

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 22/08/2014 16:23:23    1640554

Either way

Donegal will soon have to swap McGuinness

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/08/2014 16:40:54    1640569

I see that you conveniently ignored the financial expenditure figures Richieq. That was right on topic of course.

Incidentally ask Simonstown who contributed to their funds when their new clubhouse opened a few years ago. None other than the Dublin senior football team.

Yes Dublin signed with AIG, 4m over 5 years. Fair play to them. No excuse for big name counties not doing likewise. Coverage is now global. Sky are backing the sport. County boards need to get going. No shortage of multi-nationals with a nice marketing budget. But keep the excuses coming and the keep putting the poor mouth on.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 22/08/2014 16:41:15    1640571

Richeq,
I can accept peoples anger at this Dublin team playing in croker for too many league games and all championship games. ( id love something to happen here)
I can accept some people see it as not fair that Dublin have a lot more kids to choose from when underage and minor teams are being picked (which gives them better odds of having a strong panel at senior level) although the past has proven between 1995 and 2011 the volume of kids didnt make a difference. Its proper structures put in place .
Good Sponsorship money I agree will allow for better information to be gained through coaches and nutritionalists on how to get the most from players that have been selected to represent your county. (But unless players are very good anyway this will only make a slight difference)
But heres the thing you accept Banties comments , who says most Dublin players dont work and are semi proffessional (which is a lazy and ridiculous comment).yet you then proclaim Kerry and kilkenny as brilliant players who done things diffently. .I agree these guys were and are brilliant players but they were well looked after by their counties, Meath were no different when sucessful in looking after their players, not many of those guys had to worry about getting time off for training. they were working in Banks, school teachers etc.
But like many giving Dublin credit for having very good players seems to be a hard thing to do for a lot of people. Its a lot easier to shake the head and say "sure with that money what do you expect".
The truth is Dublin realised many year back that they were not doing it right and potential A Brogans or Paul Currans were slippng through their hands. , through a combination of wrong types of trials and not enough information coming back on who was playing well and losing kids to soccer, no continuity in coaches who could pass on information from one age group to the next, to form patterns in what was and wasnt working as regards coaching methods.
They flung the net far and wide and used the money they had generated on 1)proper underage trials 2) finding the best coaching structures 3 )getting explayers coaching underage 5)Starting the process at a much younger age to get good habits starting young) 6) Focusing on diet and nutrition .
At the moment we have a very strong panel with some exceptional players who have benefitted from good coaching through the years, but the bottom line is if this team didnt train their asses off , make huge family sacrifices and most importantly have the ability ,they would win nothing.
Look at Paul Flynn on 70 mins the game well won, sweating still tackling ferociously wanting to get the ball back , James mc Carthy reading the game brilliantly and making runs up and down the pitch for 70 full mins in every game making his half forward marker be substituted more often than not and tell me that this team is just a financial juggernaut.
Its a juggernaut of committed ,skillful and hungry players its a while since a county has had so many gifted players in so many positions and this is what people cant get their head around.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 22/08/2014 16:41:20    1640572

I wonder how much a week in Johntown House costs?

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/08/2014 16:42:57    1640574

Well ain't that the truth!

link

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 22/08/2014 17:21:05    1640601

Jim mcG is quoted as saying in DonegalDemocrat that "over the last four years i have worked with people from UK, America and Dubai and you would be staggered at the amount of money they have brought in" .(now i get why he had Ambramovich in his mind) 30k has been mentioned for this 5 day training camp and dont forget 7 day training camp to portugal earlier in the year.
Personally i say fair play to him he has gone out and got money in for his county so they can access the top nutritional coaches ,hotels and do everything in his power to get his players ready for the AllIreland championship. Mayo and Kerry are no different they will have spent huge, no stone will have been left unturned in their quest for glory.
The thing is after you get your players physically very fit, very strong and eating the right foods .Its the team with the better players in key positions that will win in the end.
Now if the Dubs have found better organic miracles foods and juices from Tibetan streams and mountain ranges that mean we recover better during the games then i agree we have an unfair advantage going into these remaining games.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 22/08/2014 17:29:30    1640611

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 13009

164057
I wonder how much a week in Johntown House costs?

It started off about an hour ago at €10,000, a sum no Dublin player would get out of bed for. It's now up to €30,000 & I have no doubt will reach €100,000 before the evening is out.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/08/2014 17:42:32    1640621

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 13009

1640569
Either way

Donegal will soon have to swap McGuinness

This is something you have alluded to before jimbo.

Do you know something the rest of us don't?

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/08/2014 17:45:28    1640626