Could it be that over the past number of years that the standard within Munster has been fairly even across the counties and on any given day one or another could beat each other? Do you not think if Limerick played Cork two weeks after the Muster final they wouldn't have perhaps beaten them? likewise for Tip beating Limerick if they played again after the first day. Championship hurling is about turning up on the day - Cork didn't this year, Limerick didn't last year two weeks , three weeks, five weeks, I cannot see how that impacted them on the day. Dublin was mentioned - they did show up on the day and almost got over the line (sending off perhaps robbed them of the opportunity) and you didn't hear any complaints from them about it.
Anyway all of this talk distracts from the real issues in the format of the Hurling Championship - the provincial system. Two groups of six - top four into the semis and the bottom two play for relegation. It would allow the championship to be spaced out correctly and every county know when they are playing their games.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 19/08/2014 15:02:20    1638892

Munster Championship is very indifferent year on year. At the moment any team there could win the Munster championship probably with the exception of Waterford who are rebuilding but I would not count them out given that they should have beat Cork in the QF this year.

However there was years when the playing field was not so level and Munster teams were still not winning the AI.

In 2001 it was an even championship but Tipp scraped over Clare & Limerick. Limerick had beaten a good Cork and Waterford team.

2002 - Waterford rose to the fore and played a new type of intensity which Cork would later raise the bar.

2003 , 2004 , 2005 & 2006 Cork & Waterford bought Munster hurling to new heights.

2007 - Again a very even playing field apart from Clare with Waterford prevailing in a dour final.

2008 & 2009 Tipp rose the intensity levels again.

2010 - Hard what to make of this as Limerick were on strike plus there was dour enough games between Clare/Waterford & Tipp/Cork. Cork v Limerick was a gimme for Cork. Apart from the replayed final I didn't see much excitement.

2011 & 2012 Tipp used their new system to good effect and in 2011 demolished all other teams but in 2012 all games were tighter affairs.

2013 - Limerick came to the fore with not playing their best 15 and when the team were in with a shout bringing on some match winners proved crucial to kill off opponents.

2014 - I would say a level playing field any one of the teams could have won it.

However when the Munster Champions stepped into Croke Park only Tipp team in 2001 & Cork team in 2005 have won AIs.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 19/08/2014 16:16:42    1638920

Yeah it's way too long. There should be a maximum gap of 4 weeks and ideally a 3 week gap.

However in the hurling I don't think it was a bad thing when it was brought in. Kilkenny were so dominant so anything to bring their semi final winning margins down was needed.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 19/08/2014 17:01:22    1638959

The hurling Championship will never be fair while the Provincial Championship is part of it.

A team like Cork may have learned allot from being beaten early on this year, say against Waterford. Tipp have certainly learned allot as Clare did last year from early defeats. Throw in the 5 week lay-off and the teams coming like trains with a load of wins behind them

Teams should be playing against each other in a league basis to determine the top 4, there's your semi-final and final sorted.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 19/08/2014 17:12:49    1638966

Since the current system started in 2008,

28% of Munster champions have reached AI final compared with
14% of beaten finalists
14% of beaten semi finalists
28% of beaten 1/4 finalists.

While champions have not taken full advantage of the bye, there is no evidence that getting beaten earlier is any help.

Nevertheless, I would prefer a shorter break

tommy58 (Dublin) - Posts: 169 - 19/08/2014 20:13:19    1639058

Wildpundit
Tipp were not Munster Champs in 2010, 2008 09 11 and 12 yes but Waterford won Munster in 2010.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4333 - 19/08/2014 20:23:19    1639061

Ban
Coming from Westmeath a county unlikely to ever win a Leinster Hurling Championship you might not appreciate what a win in a Provincial Championship means to a hurling county. Just look at Dublin and Limerick supporters reaction to their wins last year. It would be a pity and no good to the overall development of Hurling if these competitions were discontinued. Can you remember what it meant to Westmeath when they won the Leinster Football Championship in 2004?

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4333 - 19/08/2014 20:30:14    1639066

Oldtourman
I never said get rid of the Provincial Championship. I'm suggesting that its association with the All-Ireland is not doing it any favours, and probably never has!

Like in England soccer, you run the cups in parallel with the League/Championship i.e. The Provincial Championship runs during the same months that the league/championship is run. Other benefits to this approach, your season is then defined from start to finish. Clubs know where they stand regarding their County Championship. They may even get slots during the summer to play rounds of games. County league runs regardless of national fixtures.

The game needs to evolve, probably more so in football than hurling. The biggest reason for the need for change is the professional approach of Counties. We have the raw material for one of the greatest sporting products that any Country could wish for but what's out there in the form of the current Championship structure not good enough.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 19/08/2014 21:52:00    1639117

Oldtourman ,

Where did I mention Tipp won the Munster Championship in 2010 ????

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 20/08/2014 09:10:40    1639142

WP
Sorry
Misread 2001 for 2010

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4333 - 20/08/2014 09:26:54    1639147

As already stated the provincial championships give the AI and the backdoor system a skewered look to them and that will not change any time soon.

Whilst we have one semi-final one week and then another the following week to ensure as much television coverage, we elongate the provincial championships to an extent that the qualifiers are then squeezed in week after week as we saw with Galway and then Wexford playing week after week due to draws etc, etc.
Play the semis on the same weekend, Saturday evening and then the Sunday, so that the qualifiers can get up and running quicker, hence we know the quarter finalists quicker so that at best the provincial champions are only waiting 3 weeks at best, and freeing up more weekends for the club hurlers into the bargain.

just my tuppence worth..

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 20/08/2014 11:04:01    1639201

You could nearly run Hurling Championship off in 3 months giving an extra 3 to 4 weeks back to the clubs.

Tipp had to wait from June 1st to July 5th to play a Championship match.In that same period of time Kilkenny had actually played 4 Championship matches if you include the Leinster final on July 6th.Albiet again taking into account a drawn game. By the time Galway were playing Tipp they were in the 4th Championship game and was only Tipp's second.

Limerick mean while had been idle from June 1st to July 13th & Cork had been idle from June 15th to July 13th. That Munster final could have been played on the June 29th freeing up time then for an earlier AI Quater Final & Semi Final.I know Cork had drawn with Waterford but should games be decided on the day and avoid replays altogether ?

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 20/08/2014 12:02:14    1639248

A valid effort bricktop but as long as the fundamentals of the current Championship format exist, problems will be identified, solutions will be rolled out, and problems will be found again and so on.

The structure of the GAA will not allow a change to the championship because councils number one priority is their patch and not the game. The fact that the 5 week lay-off may have hampered Cork, it might spur the GAA into immediate change if Frank believes it will help the Rebels win an All-Ireland. But no matter what the change is, cracks will appear before long.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 20/08/2014 12:11:54    1639260