fainleog
County: Limerick
Posts: 109

1639776
Joxer - Maths is not your strong area. If Mayo had gone for a goal at the end and scored a goal instead of scoring a point, Mayo would have won by a point and not by two as you suggest. In any event it would have been most unlikely that Mayo would have scored a goal in the circumstances.

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Incredible as it may seem I actually did very well in maths in college so I'm blushing here. Anyway the point stands, Mayo had a chance to win the game and bizarrely didn't take it. Truth is they kicked the game away in the first 30 and the lost heart as the Dublin juggernaut kicked into gear. However we still only one by a point in the end.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 21/08/2014 14:08:53    1639942

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 6502

1639773
I share your deep pessimism joxer. Hurlers encourage that!

However, this is remarkable football team and is going to take a remarkable performance to take them down, as they will be at some stage this year or next. In the meantime, we can look forward and talk nonsense on the interweb :-)

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I love that hurlers comment. Thanks for the counselling HD, I feel better already. You've convinced me, we're going to hockey them!!

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 21/08/2014 14:12:04    1639946

waynoI
County: Dublin
Posts: 9844

1639550
We got the donegal question answered in 2011 gary
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Ah yea but like all teams in any team sport, You can beat anyone thats decent once on a given day, you have to do it twice on the big stage to prove the first time wasnt a one time wonder...

Great so, that explains why na Conallaigh have never made a big deal out of beating us in 2012. It didn't really count. And I thought they were just being gracious.

The real question to be answered on Sunday week is, even if the Jacks win, will they beat the system?!?

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 21/08/2014 15:53:45    1640042

an tseabhac
County: Kerry
Posts: 403


The real question to be answered on Sunday week is, even if the Jacks win, will they beat the system?!?
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OMG!!!! some people need help. "Even if the Jacks win, will they beat the system" Who gives a crap I will take a 1 pt win and couldn't give a F$%K about any system after that...

jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 21/08/2014 16:11:37    1640057

1639744
benjyyy
County: Donegal
Posts: 1058

1639615
Gary I'm having a good laugh at your posts now. After the quarters your posts were saying that you couldn't see how Donegal would win and now you are saying they "can and will" win! I wish I shared your optimism but nothing has happened in the last couple of weeks to change opinions. We certainly can win but the bookies odds say it all - it will take a lot of things to fall into place nicely.

I don't follow your arguments on why we "will" win. Our system may have evolved but is it more effective? We haven't performed at the top of our game in 2 years now and theres nothing apart from the cliched "they will be up for this" argument to suggest that will change on the 31st. Any other argument like 'JMG has been planning for the Dubs all year' etc is just spurious. The fact of the matter is that we will need to play a whole lot better than we have to date this year and probably rely on the Dubs missing a few goal chances and a bit of luck thrown in for good measure.

I pray that it happens but I can't see any argument based on current logic to suggest we "will" win.

Your right, I wasn't too optimistic about Donegal's chances Immediately after the Quarter finals. However I started to analyse the game and potential match ups, and something struck me about some tactics Donegal had tried out in earlier games which changed my thinking.

Under Jim McGuinness, Donegal since 2011 have been fairly predictable in how they lineout and especially in 2012 when their starting 15 didnt change game to game.

This year despite being at full strength all season, they have actually been very unpredictable in a lot of positions. On May 25th in Celtic Park, I remember Donegal fans being confused when the team was announced prior to throw in. Everybody had their Match Programmes out trying to pencil in the changes, and they weren't sure what was going on. The Ulster SF against Antrim was another strange affair, as Karl Lacey was warming up on the pitch, but didn't even make the bench despite him fully taking part in the warm up.

Last week I spoke with a Tyrone Gael, who Is not what you might call a JMG era Donegal fan. I spoke with him about the upcoming AI SF's, and said how unpredictable Donegal have been so far this year. He said he had kopped this too, and he was of the opinion that Donegal had one eye on Dublin since the long before the Ulster final.
I didn't agree, as I reckoned it was unlikely that Jim McGuinness would have looked beyond the Derry or Monaghan games. The Tyrone Gael's exact words where "Donegal knew they had the measure of Derry and Monaghan, and Donegal knew they would beat Armagh, and when Armagh got a goal to give them a shock lead, Donegal upped the tempo enough to retake the lead". He was right, Donegal found those high gears very easily when they needed them, then once calm was restored they wound down their game.

I thought back to the Derry game, and Donegal opened up enough to blast Derry out of the water and then slowed all down. Likewise against Antrim, and they really kept Monaghan at arms length during the Ulster final. Even when Monaghan got a very lucky goal, Donegal just kept ticking over and didn't panic.

A full strength Donegal are a very dangerous team, and I suspect they haven't shown their full hand just yet. The Tyrone Gael I spoke to believed Donegal will shock everybody and beat Dublin, and I also think they just might.



Gary, I'm with you here, when I left Croke park having watched both Dublin and Donegal win the QF games, I gotta be honest I could not see a donegal victory, but now on reflection and closer inspection of all of Donegals games not too mention the tactical brilliance of JMG, I am now not only confident of putting it up to Dublin but actually pulling this off as I'm convined there has been a plan devised that will catch the Dublin team....... Here's hoping anyway

ben1977 (Donegal) - Posts: 364 - 21/08/2014 16:16:12    1640063

I have been doing a good bit of reading up about this game surprised enough with the stats...O'Conner is Mayo's top scorer in the championship to date 2-23 of which only 0-7 is from play, 2-5 of which was against New York. Mayo rely a lot from free's for there scores. Mayo top scorer from play is mcloughlin with 0-8, A Moran has scored only 0-7. There lack of real top forward who will get 7/8 pts a game from play will cost them again. You could have the same argument against Kerry take O'Donaghue out and Kerry could struggle for scores. I think this is a real 50/50 game. IF Kerry keep there discipline and not give mayo handy scores from Free's they have classier forwards and a stronger bench I would give them the nod by 3 to 4pts.

If it turns into a physical battle then Mayo would have the edge.

I think at the end of the day Kerry have a couple of top Forwards that Mayo don't and score might come a bit easier to them.

Kerry to win by 4pts

jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 21/08/2014 16:24:46    1640069

Lockjaw
County: Donegal
Posts: 3542
To illustrate:

Derry - 10 to 12 minutes at the beginning of the second half.
Antrim - 10 to 20 minutes blitz in the second half.
Monaghan - after the goal, had the wherewithal to calmly restore the 3 or 4 point cushion.
Armagh - similar to the Ulster final, the team didn't panic, raised the tempo and got the scores needed to secure the win.

I would agree with most of this - I thought the Monaghan game was comfortable for Donegal. One thing I would say is that Monaghan had nowhere near the intensity of 2013 Ulster Final and I think this had much to do with the black card - ironic really when the Brolly outburst was for a tackle on a Monaghan player. I was at the Ulster Final in both years right in front of Dessie Moan in the first half and watched as he bullied Marty O'Reilly out of the game in 2013, pushing him over the sideline before the game started. Even though the Donegal crowd roared at the linesman he took no action. As a result Moan was able to intimidate O'Reilly throughout the game. This year he shook hands with Ryan McHugh and attempted no intimidation with the result of McHugh ripping him apart.

The one game I wasn't so comfortable with was the Armagh game. I think the incident with Findon/Forker really shook Lacey and some of the other incidents reduced Donegal's comfort - a stronger referee was needed. Donegal really needed to dig deep.

The underrated player in the Donegal team I've felt so far has been Neil McGee. What he has done both against McManus and Clarke was to go on surging runs up the field, scoring a point in both games. This seemed to drag both out the field where they don't want to be and drain their energy. If you look at McManus he was much more of a threat against Dublin than Donegal.

However, I think this Dublin team is a step too far. I think Donegal will give them a game but Dublin will have just too much.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 503 - 21/08/2014 17:59:12    1640130

Great so, that explains why na Conallaigh have never made a big deal out of beating us in 2012. It didn't really count. And I thought they were just being gracious.

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I didnt say that chief!!

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 21/08/2014 19:35:42    1640178

Dear jacktheDub and waynol,

that post of mine was entirely tongue-in-cheek, especially the 'system' part...

Actually, thinking about that, it means that "Gooch is a two trick pony" is only the second silliest thing a certain pundit has uttered...

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 22/08/2014 09:36:06    1640290

opa01
County: Cavan
Posts: 293

1640130 I would agree with most of this - I thought the Monaghan game was comfortable for Donegal. One thing I would say is that Monaghan had nowhere near the intensity of 2013 Ulster Final and I think this had much to do with the black card - ironic really when the Brolly outburst was for a tackle on a Monaghan player. I was at the Ulster Final in both years right in front of Dessie Moan in the first half and watched as he bullied Marty O'Reilly out of the game in 2013, pushing him over the sideline before the game started. Even though the Donegal crowd roared at the linesman he took no action. As a result Moan was able to intimidate O'Reilly throughout the game. This year he shook hands with Ryan McHugh and attempted no intimidation with the result of McHugh ripping him apart.

The one game I wasn't so comfortable with was the Armagh game. I think the incident with Findon/Forker really shook Lacey and some of the other incidents reduced Donegal's comfort - a stronger referee was needed. Donegal really needed to dig deep.

The underrated player in the Donegal team I've felt so far has been Neil McGee. What he has done both against McManus and Clarke was to go on surging runs up the field, scoring a point in both games. This seemed to drag both out the field where they don't want to be and drain their energy. If you look at McManus he was much more of a threat against Dublin than Donegal.

However, I think this Dublin team is a step too far. I think Donegal will give them a game but Dublin will have just too much.


While Armagh did put the brakes on Donegal, I still felt Donegal were not playing full tilt. Had they converted a few of those easy wides, the win would have been much more comprehensive. I felt Donegal were far more comfortable in possession, and to be honest they probably suffered with McFadden not playing at his normal best. Other than that, Armagh would have been well beaten. Armagh tried to be physical, but I don't think that works against the likes of Donegal, Mayo or Dublin.

No doubt about it, Dublin are the best team in the country as past 18-24 months. However Donegal are not too shabby themselves when they decide to shake and bake. Those two defeats in 2013 took the shine off this Donegal team, and in way they are building confidence this year again.

I think alot will depend on how quickly Donegal settle into the game, If they manage to settle and find their rhythym quickly, then I have no doubt they can and will beat Dublin.

Donegal rarely break rank, they are systematic and sustain a focus on their game plan like robots for large periods. When they concede a goal, the don't panic, they Instead shut the game down and regroup. And they now have 6 men on the bench who can come on and steady the ship for the last 20mins.

When Donegal are motivated and have ample time to prepare, they are possibly the most dangerous team in Ireland to face. I think the ending to this story may yet have a twist, unlike so many of our Journalists, pundits and bookies who have the ending already written, and are just waiting for the final score.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 22/08/2014 10:09:18    1640303

Gary you honestly believe that Donegal will beat Dublin? Give me a break are people blind or what? Dublin will win this game cause we have the best team and bench and Donegal will not be able for what we are going to throw at them. Seriously Gary Donegal are not the team of '12 and will never reach that level again and this is a complete mismatch.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 22/08/2014 10:34:20    1640316

opa01
County: Cavan
Posts: 293

The underrated player in the Donegal team I've felt so far has been Neil McGee. What he has done both against McManus and Clarke was to go on surging runs up the field, scoring a point in both games. This seemed to drag both out the field where they don't want to be and drain their energy. If you look at McManus he was much more of a threat against Dublin than Donegal.

Yes McGee is playing his best football ever this year. Its great to see, as is his brother Eamonn. I think that if one or 2 of the rest of the team seriously click on sunday week, we might, just might get a run of scores. Then it would be interesting.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/08/2014 11:21:57    1640356

Is brea liom an caint seo clondalkin. Keep her lit!

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9151 - 22/08/2014 11:24:37    1640357

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 5308

1640316
Gary you honestly believe that Donegal will beat Dublin? Give me a break are people blind or what? Dublin will win this game cause we have the best team and bench and Donegal will not be able for what we are going to throw at them. Seriously Gary Donegal are not the team of '12 and will never reach that level again and this is a complete mismatch.

Clondalkin my old friend, the writing is on the wall & yet you can't see it.

JMcG has done a magnificent job of lulling ye all into a false sense of security & it has worked a dream. Donegal have done just enough in each game to get over the line while leaving plenty in the tank, while Dublin have shot the lights out in their outings. If the level of complacency in the Dublin camp is a small fraction of what it is on this forum then ye are in trouble.

As for Donegal being nowhere near 2012, JMcG declared the Ulster final win as the best Donegal performance he had ever seen, granted things went down a notch against Armagh & that is worrying, but take it from me Donegal, are in this with a shout.

The big yellow bus is gleaming & ready to hit the road!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/08/2014 16:28:18    1640559

If the level of complacency in the Dublin camp is a small fraction of what it is on this forum then ye are in trouble.


Thankfully there is no chance of that whatsoever, but I hear ya Muck!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 22/08/2014 16:41:00    1640570

hardly agree that dublin have shot the lights out
we have left more goal chances behind us in every match so far than we have put in the net
one of these days we will take 5 or 6 of them

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 22/08/2014 16:44:49    1640578

JMcG declared the Ulster final win as the best Donegal performance he had ever seen


Purely said to boost the players moral, let's be honest, it didn't compare with Donegal's brilliant showing from the QF on in 2012!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 22/08/2014 16:45:19    1640579

Real dub
I'd say the Ulster final really put us back on track and JMcG did say :::a lot of people were writing off this Donegal team and their response in the Ulster final was the reason he said it.
How many people on here forecast Monaghan to beat Donegal ?? Where did you stand on that match.
Also a lot of people comparing the Donegal of today with the 2012 team and how they played. Fair enough they might not have reached 2012 levels just yet but they could well do. IMO it would be better for Dublin if they don't.

Now at this moment of time I'd imagine BATTLE PLANS will be drawn up down at Johnstown house , the last bit of work will be done and hopefully we will have a fully fit , mentally alert and fully focused Donegal team in Croke Park on 31/08/14

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 23/08/2014 10:22:56    1640756

I believed at the time that Donegal would scrape by a very decent Monaghan, but since then we've seen that they were really a poor side!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8596 - 23/08/2014 12:17:06    1640795

realdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 3836

1640579
JMcG declared the Ulster final win as the best Donegal performance he had ever seen

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What did he say about the QF? You're only as good as your last game afterall!

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 23/08/2014 12:30:43    1640802