arock there's no loaded comment at all. The discussion started on the Sunday Game regards underage players opting for football. It's a fair enough question as a result to ask, has money been wasted on the investment?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7876 - 28/07/2014 18:13:59    1627505

I think it sort of comes down to what you will get out of players. Donal Óg made the point very well last night, in a county like Dublin there is no point losing a hurler at underage because he cant get on a team to a player who is just going to play football when he can make the panel.
Again, it comes down to the dual player issue. For me, I still believe it can be done, but only where you have a collective will to make it work. If you are fit enough, and trained a night or two with each, with a game each weekend, would you really not be able to play both?

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 28/07/2014 19:00:26    1627551

Good post Carlowman and thank you for not stooping like others in giving the proverbial boot in when your down ,
As for this god damn myth re money , coaches developing squads etc there are many on here spouting off without a clue ,
The current Dublin hurling development squads meet approx every Four weeks for training in the year there will be a total of 8 to 10 training sessions , they will attend the same blitzs as Wexford , Offaly Kilkenny etc etc NO different to any other county .
In a recent Blitz Kilkenny arrived in their Team bus ( hired ) we arrived in our team bus ( hired ) same as Waterford .
They all wore county colours , they all gave jerseys back same as ! ,! !! See a pattern emerging ????? All we are doing is the same as anyone else ,
My club has no dedicated hurling coach all adult teams are trained by ex players or fathers of players , but don't let the myth in the way of a good story , I like hundreds up and down the country spend a small fortune following my son around the country helping him chase his dream , you'd swear we were all arriving in limousines and playing with gold plated hurls the crap that goes on , notice a complete lack of stats and invoices for good measure no lets just discuss Dublin Funding Vague and Boring .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 28/07/2014 19:52:05    1627602

There's no boot in at all.

Regards dual players, with all the demands at inter county level, it's got to be one or the other for the season.

Back to those claiming a boot is being stuck, none of ye are discussing the issue of underage players opting for football. It seems the wrong approach and the wrong players are being brought along at underage when they've no long term commitment to the sport.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7876 - 28/07/2014 20:00:40    1627618

28/07/2014 20:00:40
legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3485

1627618
There's no boot in at all.

Regards dual players, with all the demands at inter county level, it's got to be one or the other for the season.

Back to those claiming a boot is being stuck, none of ye are discussing the issue of underage players opting for football. It seems the wrong approach and the wrong players are being brought along at underage when they've no long term commitment to the sport.

Ok your correct in that some high profile players have opted to play the big ball , how can you know who will or wont when they start out at 13 years of age ,this subject IS being seriously discussed on the Dublin page with people who have a vested interest in whats best for Dublin hurling , and Yes there are some who believe a change in dual players playing both codes is the way forward , however no one if interested in seeing Dublin successful could possibly think less money would make it better !

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 28/07/2014 20:16:13    1627639

There is no such county as "Dublin Region" legend so not going to take you seriously. You are clearly just trying to get a rise our of us after being bate out the fkn gate. We were one of I think four counties, maybe even including your own, that defied the attempt to destroy the GAA after the Parnell split in 1890 so fk you :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 28/07/2014 20:41:24    1627670

legendzxix

There are two parts to the question - young hurlers opting for football and then the investment/money bit. They are not related s most Dublin clubs self finance and been a part of one of the biggest in the country we don't get handouts from anyone. We have a GPO who promotes the games in local schools - Girls schools tend to favour camogie, boys schools a 50/50 mix but they promote all five GAA affliated codes. The GPO is part paid by the GAA and part by the club thats the only "investment" we receive - they are promoting games not a single game. Money has nothing to do with the problem at all. It could be said with the numbers coming through club gates it is increasingly difficult to turn these numbers into competitive teams and elite players

The issue of young players opting for Football - centres around duel players, so the issue is not exclusively a Dublin one - Cork has the same problem in reverse.

Minor is especially difficult for young duel players, leaving cert, pursuit of points for college and the serious demands on talented duel players is forcing them to choose.
A second problem is so-called duel code clubs tolerating senior football coaches who select only single code players forcing these young men to choose, or taking the choice away. I believe if clubs are found guilty of this the GPO service from the GAA/DCB should be removed from club.

Donal og made a very good point and it relates to numbers and turning these into elite players, lack of quality coaching, poor facillites, and especially a lack of competitive competition is a huge obstacle to hurling.

But then again why would an elite duel code player give up a Dublin Hurling shirt for number 29 shirt on a Football panel? Who knows who gets inside these young lads heads.

But money/investment has nothing to do with it, the bigger clubs don't have the space/pitches to accomodate the players and no amount of money is going to change that.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 28/07/2014 21:25:37    1627708

As most people talking about Dulbin 'hurling' haven't a clue and this thread, the Sunday Gamecomments etc prove it.

In Kilkenny, or Tipp or Kerry you have hurling or football clubs.

In Cork or Galway you have hurling or football regions etc.

In Dulbin you have GAA Clubs! Nearly all clubs are dual, with a stong ladies football section and caomige on the rise as well. You play both codes equally and this is the way it should be!

Harder to have success this way but should never be changed

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 29/07/2014 08:31:55    1627739

A lot of the coaching is too one dimensional. I've had arguments at coaching courses about the rigid application of things like which hand to hold at top of hurl. For me it is whatever way the kid picks it up and is comfortable with. There is also the coaching out of ground hurling and insistence on getting ball into hand. Just look at Sunday. Dublin players bending their back over balls where Tipp lads were flicking the ball out or kicking it. Main thing though is poor standard of club hurling and not sure how that can be addressed. Perhaps by doing away with the group system which means that there are very few really competitive games?

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 29/07/2014 09:06:39    1627752

witnof
County: Dublin
Posts: 687

1627739
As most people talking about Dulbin 'hurling' haven't a clue and this thread, the Sunday Gamecomments etc prove it.

In Kilkenny, or Tipp or Kerry you have hurling or football clubs.

In Cork or Galway you have hurling or football regions etc.

In Dulbin you have GAA Clubs! Nearly all clubs are dual, with a stong ladies football section and caomige on the rise as well. You play both codes equally and this is the way it should be!

Harder to have success this way but should never be changed

''Not having a clue'' doesnt stop Dubs commenting on other counties does it? As for Dublin clubs that comes down to population, something you Dubs try to claim it makes no difference. Not to mention the amount of full time coaches Dublin clubs have but i suppose that makes no difference either.

football_dude (Roscommon) - Posts: 34 - 29/07/2014 12:29:42    1627850

Maybe you should pay coaches rather than buying buse coaches football dude :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 29/07/2014 12:40:23    1627852

witnof
County: Dublin
Posts: 687

You play both codes equally and this is the way it should be!


So you are saying people should be forced to play a sport they may have no interest in?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5017 - 29/07/2014 13:10:43    1627879

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 6316

1627852
Maybe you should pay coaches rather than buying buse coaches football dude :-)

What does that have to do with Dublin hurling? Nothing new i suppose a Dub trying to change the subject...

football_dude (Roscommon) - Posts: 34 - 29/07/2014 13:11:52    1627880

We use the money we get wisely. That is my point football dude. Perhaps you might be better occupied worrying about your own teams :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 29/07/2014 13:28:21    1627902

Croke Park want a strong Dublin competing in both codes as financially it is a big cash cow every year and that's understandable money wise BUT other counties like Antrim, Down, Laois, Carlow, Westmeath etc are suffering in the meantime from any serious investment from HQ. From where they were 5 years ago Dublin have made great strides but they are atill a long way away from the elite. I think Michael Duignam said on a few occasions that Dublin were a yard behind Tipperary in skill, speed of thought, movement and awareness of other players and they were really given a hurling lesson on Sunday. Croke Park want Dublin there or thereabouts but let's not kid ourselves it's really for dollar signs.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 29/07/2014 14:17:11    1627932

A lot of the coaching is too one dimensional.
I agree

I've had arguments at coaching courses about the rigid application of things like which hand to hold at top of hurl. For me it is whatever way the kid picks it up and is comfortable with.

But not with this, the grip and swing are the most important basic aspects of hurling, the split seconds are the difference between a Henry Shefflin and Conal Keaney, who caught the ball in the wrong hand after the penalty and failed to get it on target, Shefflin would have bulged the net 99 times out of 100 as his grip and swing are perfect and like lightening. These split seconds to raise and strike a ball off both sides make the difference, hence why big Walter Walsh is being found out this year and if he hasn't started and been taken off, he's come on late on. His big shove off isn't working as effectively any more..

There is also the coaching out of ground hurling and insistence on getting ball into hand. Just look at Sunday. Dublin players bending their back over balls where Tipp lads were flicking the ball out or kicking it.

This also gets on my neds (borrowed from a scottish co worker), the hoking and poking is an eyesore on the game and as you say, the ball should be flicked out or booted out and have lads on the periphery to pick it up, ever see Brian Lohan flick the ball out and chase after it once its away from the danger zone, didn't do Brian any harm, did it?

I hate too much drill orientated training, its all well and good but needs supplimented with full contact hurling to really hone your touch and striking..

Main thing though is poor standard of club hurling and not sure how that can be addressed. Perhaps by doing away with the group system which means that there are very few really competitive games?

This is the main advantage Kilkenny have, they've a very competitive club structure so lads are playing at a very high level week in, week out, Cody doesn't keep his county players all to himself, he lets the go play club hurling which means his county panel are getting competitive hurling and also the clubs are playing away all summer, when hurling should be played.

What comes first for Dublin, release the county hurlers back to their clubs to bring up the standard of club hurling which in turn will raise the standard of all the other hurlers at the clubs, might pick up a few injuries, but that hasn't stopped Cody and Kilkenny!!

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 29/07/2014 15:17:17    1627972

Bricktop and Arock two excellent pieces written ,
We have briefly touched both here and the Dublin main page on development squads , on that note the larger lad seems to still be in vogue , the small nippy lad stuck into the corners , the key word used is intensity and rarely touch .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 29/07/2014 16:01:20    1628015

Damo, I think Clare showed there is very much a place for the small, nippy hurler with a good touch, but like everything else it needs a bit of balance and Limerick use the likes of Graham Mulcahy along with Shane Dowling who can feed off the scraps and the open spaces afforded in the two man fullforward lines favoured by some, Alan Cadogan is another, so there's very much a need for speedsters of all sizes BUT, the only thing better than a small good'un is a big good'un!!

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 30/07/2014 11:16:53    1628356

i dont agree with the whole anti football elemant on the duel player here.
if a guy wants to play both up to under 21 i think it should be encouraged.
the demands at senior are a huge differance therefore you will struggle as chances are
you will be working full time too.
if somebdoy chooses football over hurling thats their choice im sick of people whinging over it
they rather football it seems people are quite fine with people choosing hurling over football but god forbid
you do the opposite for some reason.
also this talk of loosing duel players such as kilkenny,costello,lowndes,mchugh and o conghaile
first off NONE OF THESE guys played senior inter county hurling for dublin.
therefore you cannot lose somebody you never had!
they are five guys out of two or three years
each year has a panel of 26 players
are you telling me that there wasnt another 10 players out of those panels that choose hurling
and wanted to play for dublin hurlers at senior level.
the question is why are they not been giving their chance?
daly has again come out after the tipp loss and said kilkenny and co are a big loss
again he never had them, its an easy deflection away from the fact the team played poor and were set up poor against kilkenny.
he needs to take a look at himself and ask why he didnt bring more young players into the team.
jack doughan,cian o callaghan and colm cronin seemed to take their oppurtunitys in the league the couple of times they played
yet when it came to championship only one of them really featured.
clabbey,whelan,mcclelland,crummy and winters have all been playing smashing hurling yet havent featured at senior level
thats eight players he should have been blooding and using to push the guys who already had jerseys
i dont agree we are not producing players and that guys choosing football is the problem
the problem is not bringing through the younger players who want to play hurling for dublin and stop whinging about guys who would rather play football as thats their choice.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 30/07/2014 11:34:30    1628362

Is money wasted on Cork hurling?

(This is aimed at peole like legend not Cork hurling people.)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 17/08/2014 16:57:43    1637919