Maybe it is the fact that we are in Ulster but I thought the Ulster Final was absorbing and miles better than any of the other provinicial finals.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 28/07/2014 13:11:52    1627234

Muck Id love to try and enlighten you but I fear you are lost to the eternal darkness of the blanket defence. It is our exposure to such art displays that allows us to recognise rubbish when we see it, you will just have to be more trusting of opinions from outside the county boundary.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 28/07/2014 13:11:56    1627235

Teams and tactics evolve lads. People seem to think that blanket defence/counter attack is some sort of tactical Apocalypse.
Someone or something else will come along sooner or later and we'll get to give out about that aswell. It's great being Irish and having an auld whinge.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 28/07/2014 13:53:08    1627267

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 507

1627235
Muck Id love to try and enlighten you but I fear you are lost to the eternal darkness of the blanket defence. It is our exposure to such art displays that allows us to recognise rubbish when we see it, you will just have to be more trusting of opinions from outside the county boundary.

Soma,

You are not trying to tell me that a blood stained bed is an art display surely!!

Come home quick soma, it can't be good to be living in such a place. Here in Donegal landscapes & pictures of sheep in snow constitute art. Abstracts are looked upon with deep suspicion & what Jim would make of a blood stained bed, I shudder to think.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 28/07/2014 14:20:04    1627296

Yes Byanthon, the rest were terrible and effectively over at half time. Intensity can be absorbing!!

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 28/07/2014 14:39:34    1627322

having watched that non event of a Leinster final I was glad to watch a contest of sorts in Clones. It was no classic but at least it wasn't a rout. On another point, WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO THE BLACK CARD?! we were lead to believe the high scoring league campaign was a sign of things to come because of the new policing of the black card yet it has been MIA in recent weeks. On Saturday evening the Tipp centre forward grabbed his Galway counterpart by the neck and rugby tackled him to the ground out of noticeable frustration and got away with a YELLOW card!

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2386 - 28/07/2014 14:40:54    1627327

Muck it is worse than that, it was sold earlier this year for £2.2 million. To traditional art lovers who consider art to be beautiful paintings of landscapes, sculptures etc like you describe it is a bit of a farce, much like watching a ball kicked into 1 forward against 7 defenders might be a bit of a farce for a traditional football lover. But then just as it is with the lovers of negative, defensive football, who are we to tell anyone that a bloodstained bed isn't every bit as beautiful as the ceiling of the Sistine chapel - I suppose it is just that art has moved on and we are unable to keep up!

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 28/07/2014 15:42:50    1627384

Watched the first half of the Dublin Derry National League final this year and you can talk all you want about nice open attacking football but it was dire stuff. First time i have ever left a game at half time (wanted to go after 15-20 mins)! Nice open football is one thing but for any sport to thrive and entertain it must first of all have a competitive edge. The only provincial final or indeed provincial championship to have it this year was in Ulster - and for some reason it gets all the flack. It's not perfect (it never was) but at least the outcome is not a foregone conclusion

supporter (Donegal) - Posts: 205 - 28/07/2014 16:18:43    1627404

supporter
County: Donegal
Posts: 142

1627404
Watched the first half of the Dublin Derry National League final this year and you can talk all you want about nice open attacking football but it was dire stuff. First time i have ever left a game at half time (wanted to go after 15-20 mins)! Nice open football is one thing but for any sport to thrive and entertain it must first of all have a competitive edge. The only provincial final or indeed provincial championship to have it this year was in Ulster - and for some reason it gets all the flack.

------
This is a serious question, did you watch the first half of the Ulster Final? Some Ulster people seem to forget that the primary objective of spectatorship is entertainment. Forget 'competitiveness''. A chess game can be 'competitive' it doesn't mean that many people want to sit there for an hour watching it. Personally I get entertainment from watching the skills of the game executed well, great foot passing, excellent point taking, high fielding, pace, athleticism, aggressive but fair tackling. I saw all of these things in the Leinster final. I can't say the same about the Donegal Monaghan game. To put things into perspective there were 30 attempted shots from play in the Ulster final (less than one every two mins) there were 60 in the Leinster final.

I've nothing against people who get their kicks from a tight game with a high percentage of hand passing, low shot rates and high free rates but it's not for me and it's hard to believe that almost all Ulster posters think that they prefer this type of game to the fast paced higher scoring games involving free flowing footballing teams. This is clearly a case of the Ulster Gaels uniting against what they see as an attack on their style of play. Anyway, each to their own.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/07/2014 18:54:37    1627545

This is a serious question, did you watch the first half of the Ulster Final? Some Ulster people seem to forget that the primary objective of spectatorship is entertainment.

Not for me Joxer. For 19 years I was "entertained" by Donegal losing In Ulster and in Croke Park.

Over the last 4 years we have been competitive in every match bar 1. Some matches have been dour (Dublin 2011) others have been end to end (Cork 2012).

But each one enthralling for me at least. So you are welcome to your definition of entertainment but I don't share it.

Cleatus (Donegal) - Posts: 125 - 28/07/2014 19:42:10    1627593

Joxer
County: Dublin
Posts: 1660

This is a serious question, did you watch the first half of the Ulster Final? Some Ulster people seem to forget that the primary objective of spectatorship is entertainment. Forget 'competitiveness''.

Joxer, there were 32,000 people at the Ulster final, none of whom went to be "entertained". We went to see our team win & in the process were mightily entertained by two teams who gave everything & left nothing behind.
The primary objective of any sportsman or woman is to win, entertainment is a bonus. You say "Forget competitiveness" Without competitiveness there is no sport, no drama, no excitement, no thrills which is exactly what the Leinster final served up for the neutral.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 28/07/2014 19:51:55    1627601

Cleatus
County: Donegal
Posts: 73

1627593
This is a serious question, did you watch the first half of the Ulster Final? Some Ulster people seem to forget that the primary objective of spectatorship is entertainment.

Not for me Joxer. For 19 years I was "entertained" by Donegal losing In Ulster and in Croke Park.

Over the last 4 years we have been competitive in every match bar 1. Some matches have been dour (Dublin 2011) others have been end to end (Cork 2012).

But each one enthralling for me at least. So you are welcome to your definition of entertainment but I don't share it.
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That's fair enough Cleatus. That's just my opinion and obviously I was at the 2011 1/4 final which I think scarred me for life. That was NOT entertainment but in fairness Donegal have been more open since those dark days of rugby league.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/07/2014 19:56:12    1627610

Cleatus
County: Donegal
Posts: 73

1627593
This is a serious question, did you watch the first half of the Ulster Final? Some Ulster people seem to forget that the primary objective of spectatorship is entertainment.

Not for me Joxer. For 19 years I was "entertained" by Donegal losing In Ulster and in Croke Park.

Over the last 4 years we have been competitive in every match bar 1. Some matches have been dour (Dublin 2011) others have been end to end (Cork 2012).

But each one enthralling for me at least. So you are welcome to your definition of entertainment but I don't share it.
------
That's fair enough Cleatus. That's just my opinion and obviously I was at the 2011 1/4 final which I think scarred me for life. That was NOT entertainment but in fairness Donegal have been more open since those dark days of rugby league.
--------------

Dublin have also been more open since...some people seem to forget TWO teams were involved in that match and Dublin were very defensive also.

DwnSouthSh8 (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 28/07/2014 20:07:09    1627627

DwnSouthSh8
County: Donegal
Posts: 5

1627627
Cleatus
County: Donegal
Posts: 73

1627593
This is a serious question, did you watch the first half of the Ulster Final? Some Ulster people seem to forget that the primary objective of spectatorship is entertainment.

Not for me Joxer. For 19 years I was "entertained" by Donegal losing In Ulster and in Croke Park.

Over the last 4 years we have been competitive in every match bar 1. Some matches have been dour (Dublin 2011) others have been end to end (Cork 2012).

But each one enthralling for me at least. So you are welcome to your definition of entertainment but I don't share it.
------
That's fair enough Cleatus. That's just my opinion and obviously I was at the 2011 1/4 final which I think scarred me for life. That was NOT entertainment but in fairness Donegal have been more open since those dark days of rugby league.
--------------

Dublin have also been more open since...some people seem to forget TWO teams were involved in that match and Dublin were very defensive also.

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Yes although reactively so. Gilroy most certainly got his tactics right that day.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 28/07/2014 21:12:13    1627697

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 2980

1627601
Joxer
County: Dublin
Posts: 1660

This is a serious question, did you watch the first half of the Ulster Final? Some Ulster people seem to forget that the primary objective of spectatorship is entertainment. Forget 'competitiveness''.

Joxer, there were 32,000 people at the Ulster final, none of whom went to be "entertained". We went to see our team win & in the process were mightily entertained by two teams who gave everything & left nothing behind.
The primary objective of any sportsman or woman is to win, entertainment is a bonus. You say "Forget competitiveness" Without competitiveness there is no sport, no drama, no excitement, no thrills which is exactly what the Leinster final served up for the neutral.

----
Muck I said the primary objective of the spectator is to be entertained. They pay to watch this stuff. The objective of the players is obvious but if football is not entertaining it will die, simple as that. Look to the League of Ireland for evidence. Poor entertainment equals poor attendance. That's what the fuss is about.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 29/07/2014 11:08:48    1627808

Listen I like watching Donegal and have always said it but why are some posters obsessed with everyone saying how great Donegal are and unable to fathom how some people might not like watching Donegal?

People are entitled to their opinions and if they do not like to watch defensive football then that's their business. Why the obsession with getting a pat on the head from everyone?

Is 3 Ulster and 1 All-Ireland title not good enough without the pats on the head from everyone telling yous hwo great yous are?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 29/07/2014 13:25:52    1627899

the defensive football looks very bad on TV because they only usually focus on area where the ball is. At the actual matches themselves it is much more interesting because you get the bigger picture, you can see what is going on around the pitch and the tactics being used etc.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 29/07/2014 13:41:03    1627910

in fairness mesamis that contrasts greatly with some strong anti-donegal stuff being made so people probably feel obligated to defend their position seeing as it is being attacked consistently and prominently on a national stage via the sunday game and newspapers and so on....whatever your viewpoint on donegal either way..i think that may be the reason why people feel the need for 'recognition' or whatever

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 29/07/2014 14:11:40    1627930

Defensive football is aborbing to watch at times and I would rather watch that than the superbore,snorefest Dublin/Meath farce last week. It was naive, after you Claude defending from Meath who just seemed to be afraid of Dublin and I never thought I would say that about a Meath team. You can't let a fast side like Dublin just waltz through you, a plan has to be thought out to stop them just running through the middle of your defence and if that doesn't suit the Croke Park/Dublin media Dublin fanatasy football style too bad. Some people just want teams and managers to roll over and get their bellies tickled by Dublin while getting hammered out the door by them. Well give me a low scoring, defensive game rath than that compliant nonsense any time.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 29/07/2014 14:31:32    1627941

What managers need to do if they don't like playing against a 'defensive' system is to beat it. Find a way that will make other teams reluctant to play this system against you - blow them out of the water and they will never play that way against you again.

Same in EPL when Wimbledon were relatively successful with long ball and physical players all the big clubs whinged about it rather than find a way to beat the system. Had they found a way to beat it Wimbledon would have been relegated and that would have been the end of it.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 503 - 29/07/2014 14:37:14    1627943