An open draw will harm the weaker counties and help the stronger. Kerry v Sligo, Dublin v Leitrim. Massacres that'll put lads off playing ball. Restructuring the league to get weaker counties accustomed to a higher standard of football or trying that someway in a kind of league basis for the early part of the championship might help.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7370 - 27/07/2014 16:50:53    1626597

yes i would want more than just an open draw..would also want the league sorted..bigger counties are always going to be better at end of day no matter what system but still doesnt mean you shouldnt try to make it as competitve, and as exciting as possible

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 27/07/2014 16:54:00    1626602

Money is king in this game. Dublin have more financial backing than the rest of Leinster put together. In 2012 Donegal spent 1 million euro on their senior team. The Mayo footballers have huge support despite Mchale park putting them millions in debt. Kerry have a great sponsorship deal with Kerrygroup. On the other hand Offaly don't have a training pitch. The likes of Kildare and Louth don't have a stadium. When you have huge financial backing the attention to detail in the preparation of teams is far greater. Speed, conditioning, avoiding injury, and tactics.

I think there are top class footballers in all counties. The success is down to money and attention to detail in preparation. For example, if the current squads of Westmeath or Clare or Tipperary had the backing the likes of Dublin have, there is no doubt they would be pushing for provincial honours within a year.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 27/07/2014 19:00:07    1626718

Blaming lack of money for a county's lack of footballing success is burying the head in sand time. Look at the progress in various seasons since the back door like Sligo, Fermanagh and Wexford proves that. Not a lot of money in Tipperary football either. A bit more money doesn't hurt anyone, dead right, but lying down and not tryingcos you've no dough is defeatist. No county has better footballers than Kerry but some years they don't pick their best squad or they're just not hungry enough. Dublin footballers are also quality but more than that even non-footballing Dubs have a swagger and self-confidence that many might call arrogance. We have a bit of both until the last 10 mins of an All Ireland where making the right decisions is vital.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7370 - 27/07/2014 19:27:15    1626753

Don't agree with this thread at all, the weaker counties are getting nothing near the financial support they should be, Dublin hurling and football had soaked ups lot of cash lately and there's an argument for that, the organisation must be strong in the Capitol, but other counties must also get proportionate financial support and aided with sponsorship deals and development, the fact that Offaly haven't a training ground and that Croke Park allowed such a situation occur is a travesty. Dublin are a marketing machine and their operations are more akin to a PLC than a county board, no one can compare with that or even come close, they have a CEO for Christ sake the others have secretary's........

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 27/07/2014 19:40:31    1626764

Greenandred your argument doesn't directly tackle the points I have raised. Sligo and Fermanagh haven't been competitive since 2007-2008. Infact I would argue that they are back where they were in the early 90s. It's no coincidence that the top 4 teams in the country are the top 4 biggest spenders.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 27/07/2014 19:58:17    1626779

While there is a small bit of truth in the opening post, you would have thought that a man from one of the 14 counties never to have won a minor All-Ireland would have a bit more empathy with those who are always struggling. There are many people in every county working hard in the GAA, to dismiss their lack of success in the form of silverware as due to sulking is not right.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 27/07/2014 20:04:00    1626787

There is a whole plethora of reasons as to why weaker counties are such. It can be anything from population to input financial or otherwise. It is about good structures, it is about good leadership and vision, it is about tradition and thus mentality within the county (for me perhaps the biggest reason), it is about geographical location,it is about obstacles and how easy they are overcome and it is about many more things over and above.

In my lifetime only two counties have continually been a serious player. There is another batch who have had their periods in the sun. A batch who have had their days in the sun. And then a group who have never came into contention.

So realistically if there is a magic formula only two counties have achieved it though I would say even for these two there are other factors playing apart - in one case population and tradition much to the fore, in the other tradition and geographical location to the fore.

An additional debate going on here is championship restructuring. For me I would like to see it done world cup style i.e. top 8 teams in first pot of seeds, 9-16 in second pot of seeds etc and then draw 8 groups. Winner and runner up into last 16 and from here on it is knock out. If you are in the bottom 8 teams in the country you get to play 3 games against different levels of opposition. In any given year a bottom 8 team should be in with a chance of finishing in the top 2 of such a group e.g if seeding was done on the basis of league places you could have had the following groups this year:

Kildare
Laois
Limerick
Clare

Westmeath
Donegal
Longford
Tipperary

Dublin
Louth
Fermanagh
Antrim

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 27/07/2014 20:37:26    1626817

Kerry don't make excuses in hurling. They just get up and get on with it. Competing well in the league and the Ring championship. There's a few reasons to gripe and make excuses but they have not. The play-off after winning division 2A seemed unfair. Money is going to be poured into Laois, Antrim, Carlow and Westmeath. Kerry did better than two of those counties in the league but aren't getting any money at all!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7884 - 27/07/2014 20:41:10    1626820

Daith, I'm saying a county is capable of going far without huge resources and giving up at the first hurdle cos the big lads have more money is defeatist.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7370 - 27/07/2014 20:48:17    1626826

You read my original post well Naysayer !

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7370 - 27/07/2014 21:31:40    1626889

GreenandRed I agreed with most of it - just preferred top two in each to go through to a last 16. I think if it were top 1 going through to quarter finals a couple of teams in a few groups would be beaten before they start whereas if it were a top 2 most teams in most groups would fancy they at least had a chance. We are pretty much at the round before the quarter finals at the minute this summer yet we would be at the last 16 stage every bit as quickly with groups.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 27/07/2014 21:44:56    1626916

The thing that I've found when a county enjoys success is that people from the other, less successful counties will latch onto whatever reason they think gives the successful county an advantage, and start whinging and moaning that the GAA should do this or that to try and curtail said advantage.

We had it in Kilkenny, some people were calling for us to be booted out of the hurling championship until such time as we fielded a "competitive" football team, whatever "competitive" meant. We saw it with Tyrone when Kerry started whinging about how the GAA had to clamp down on "puke football". We are getting it with Dublin now with people whinging about money, resources, matches in Croke Park, splitting Dublin up etc.

If Cork or Tipp started becoming really dominant in hurling, personally I'd be embarrassed if Kilkenny folk started whinging about how Cork and Tipp should be split up to give other counties a chance. My view would be that if we weren't good enough to beat the full Cork or Tipp team then the All Ireland is not worth winning. Yet there are people on here who seem to want Dublin to be split up in order to give his own county a better chance. As Ciaran Fitzgerald once famously asked in another code, "where's your f***in' pride?"

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 28/07/2014 08:53:44    1626951

Great post ballydalane!!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 28/07/2014 08:57:03    1626956

Anyone would think that Donegal have been winning lots of all irelands recently. They have won one and are not likely to win another.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 28/07/2014 09:15:35    1626963

I'm sick of listening to this nonsense about Dublin getting loads of money. Daith, Kildare had vast amounts of money from the "aristocrats of the turf" when Micko was there. What did you do with it? Well?

Dublin gets per capita what everyone else gets. We just used it better. It doesn't end up in someone's fkn bank account Daith.

And by the way Richie, Cork got the most money this year. And rightly so as they have biggest playing numbers and clubs.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 28/07/2014 09:21:18    1626967

Daith - I am sure the Kildare CB should be well able to get more funding for Kildare...sure Kildare is well known as the "richest" county in Ireland. Plemty of millionaires around yer parts ;)

Look you will always have the top dogs in sport and those who will never do much....thats life. You have nig counties and small ones. Why can't Bournemouth compete with Man Utd? You can however max the potential and resources available to you to ensure you get the most out of what you have.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11238 - 28/07/2014 09:42:54    1626979

s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 2991

1626963
Anyone would think that Donegal have been winning lots of all irelands recently. They have won one and are not likely to win another.

While I agree it's a bit of a misnomer to label us as some sort of traditional footballing superpower I have been wondering recently where Cavan's resentment of our recent success has stemmed from. Some posters on the Ulster final thread were almost gleefully predicting our demise should we end up meeting Dublin in the semi finals. Strange.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 28/07/2014 10:54:30    1627064

Lockjaw
County: Donegal
Posts: 3486

1627064
s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 2991

1626963
Anyone would think that Donegal have been winning lots of all irelands recently. They have won one and are not likely to win another.

While I agree it's a bit of a misnomer to label us as some sort of traditional footballing superpower I have been wondering recently where Cavan's resentment of our recent success has stemmed from. Some posters on the Ulster final thread were almost gleefully predicting our demise should we end up meeting Dublin in the semi finals. Strange.

Lockjaw, it's nothing about being fronm cavan that I made that remark, It was in connection with the initial post , as if Donegal now see themselves as some established great team alongside the likes of Kerry,Dublin,Cork and are now looking down on the so-called weaker counties and telling them it's their own fault for being where they are. Donegal developed a system a few years ago that was new at the time and it has worked (pretty well in 2011, really well in 2012, in 2013 as with the so-called "weaker counties" because of the lack of a large pool of players and due to fatigue and injuries YOu wre well beaten by Mayo). You have got past Antrim and Monaghan this year, but how would you cope if you lost 3 or 4 top players... would you cope as well as Dublin or Cork or Kerry.

All I'm saying is that it helps to have a large GAA-Playing pool of players to pick from . Have you ever been involved in underage tournaments against other counties , The likes of clubs in Galway,Cork Dublin etc have massive playing numbers at underage level, they can choose the very best from these , these are usually the biggest,strongest,fastest , smaller counties just do not have the numbers to compete.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 28/07/2014 11:14:28    1627096