I accept absolutely what you are saying about the band being in the vicinity of the incident Master. You are correct. It was awful. However players are charged with specific misdemeanours. Due process is followed and suspensions if the charges are proven are administered. My point is that there are grounds for this to happen in relation to what happened on Sunday.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 24/07/2014 12:41:55    1625257

Unfortunately Master in relation to what happened in Omagh I am going to have to plead the Wenger defence. "I did not see it".

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 24/07/2014 12:43:53    1625261

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 484

1625251 Breffni Im very disappointed to find out I condoned the brawl in Croke Park - can you show me where I done that and I will ask the admins to remove my post. Thanks.

Well if you don't condone it then you must agree that a number of suspensions should arise from it, so I don't understand your gripe here, unles...unless you're being inconsistent?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 24/07/2014 12:58:52    1625270

That may be the case greengrass, but that isnt a double standard - which is what the thread is about - but rather an issue with how the gaa bring charges, across the board for everyone...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/07/2014 13:09:42    1625273

what happened last sunday
generally happens in most championship hurling matches
and they generally all recieve yellow cards for being involved
nobody looks for suspensions after a hurling match
so why does the media and certain posters jump on the suspension trail for football
now on the dublin meath incident there was no way you could conivct either o gara of a bite
nor could you convict burke of a fishook on phtotgraphic evidence
its not in the rule book and the video was in no way clear what happened
but in fairness the video clearly showed at least one punch landing particularly the one philly mcmahon took
that was as clear as day, so the wording of the reason why there was no further action was strange.
as for posters saying this is dublins thrid time
thats wrong as only one dublin player has been convicted
and the gaa didnt even call it biting they said inflicting a reckless injury offence so he got 8 weeks suspension
where as they had no video evidence no ref or official on the day seen the incident yet they reccomended kevin o brien
get 3 game suspension, how did they have sufficent evidence that day? all they had was one players accusation
and that player then failed to turn up to give evidence,
so to recap you had two accusations not two players convicted
sure i could accuse anybody of that without it being true

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/07/2014 13:19:00    1625285

Breffni I don't condone pushing players in the back when they go down to pick up the ball, throwing it instead of handpassing it, carrying the ball more than the allowed 4 steps etc. However I don't really want players banned for doing any of these things either. Glad you have confirmed that your accusation was a stupid, baseless one, if you could try to debate the point rather than attacking posters I am sure you could be a huge success.
Just for you one more time Breffni, I think Burke is lucky not to be suspended, but trying to compare this incident to the Armagh/Cavan game is crazy and so saying that because they were dealt with differently means there is a lack of consistency just doesn't add up.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 24/07/2014 13:27:52    1625293

Brolly
County: Monaghan
Posts: 3645

1625253
Soma - cop on.

HenryHill - I agree with your comments, I'm sure you apply the same logic to the Armagh vs Cavan handbags?


Armagh vs Cavan handbags happened before the throw in - i reckon they should set up a joint Garda/PSNI taskforce to round the culprits up ;-)
reading that back i reckon i might need to cop on too

HenryHill16 (Dublin) - Posts: 249 - 24/07/2014 13:40:19    1625304

The issue is that charges were brought against some and they were not brought against others. That is inconsistency.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 24/07/2014 14:10:04    1625332

Greengrass
The issue is that charges were brought against some and they were not brought against others. That is inconsistency.

But we agreed that the circumstances were not the same, therefore it isn't inconsistency, it is differing circumstances resulting in a different outcome. I already offered you an example where the circumstances were the same and so was the outcome... Therefore, no inconsistency and no double standard.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/07/2014 14:25:59    1625343

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 8196

1625285 what happened last sunday
generally happens in most championship hurling matches
and they generally all recieve yellow cards for being involved
nobody looks for suspensions after a hurling match
so why does the media and certain posters jump on the suspension trail for football
now on the dublin meath incident there was no way you could conivct either o gara of a bite
nor could you convict burke of a fishook on phtotgraphic evidence
its not in the rule book and the video was in no way clear what happened
but in fairness the video clearly showed at least one punch landing particularly the one philly mcmahon took
that was as clear as day, so the wording of the reason why there was no further action was strange.


as for posters saying this is dublins thrid time
thats wrong as only one dublin player has been convicted
and the gaa didnt even call it biting they said inflicting a reckless injury offence so he got 8 weeks suspension
where as they had no video evidence no ref or official on the day seen the incident yet they reccomended kevin o brien
get 3 game suspension, how did they have sufficent evidence that day? all they had was one players accusation
and that player then failed to turn up to give evidence,so to recap you had two accusations not two players convicted

Wrong. You are engaging in semantics. The evidence against O Gara whilst not entirely conclusive certainly indicates that Mickey Burke was bitten. The case involving Paddy McBrearty and Kevin O Brien hinged on Paddy McBrearty not attending The CCCC hearing. Evidence both from the point of view of testimony from McBrearty and photographic evidence was furnished and was deemed conclusive enough to warrant a three game suspension being recommended by The CCCC contingent on Paddy McBrearty confirming his testimony at a hearing of The CCCC. He perhaps understandably given he was only just 19 declined to attend the hearing. The CCCC do not recommend suspensions lightly. They recommend suspensions when they are confident those suspensions will stand up to appeal. To say they had nothing other than an unsubstantiated allegation is rubbish.
sure i could accuse anybody of that without it being true

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 24/07/2014 14:27:31    1625344

So there is no double standard simply because there was a band within 5 metres of what happened? This is some highly curious logic lads.

Punches are punches. A brawl is a brawl. Consistency is Consistency.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 24/07/2014 14:32:02    1625352

I think this "brawling in the vicinity of the band" rule needs to be brought up at the next congress.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 24/07/2014 14:34:46    1625356

Just as an fyi. Like greengrass I didn't see the Tyrone Armagh brawl but if it was similar to the Dublin Meath one as posters have suggested here then that is indeed an inconsistency with how the Armagh Cavan brawl was dealt with.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 24/07/2014 14:36:49    1625358

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 486

1625293 Breffni I don't condone pushing players in the back when they go down to pick up the ball, throwing it instead of handpassing it, carrying the ball more than the allowed 4 steps etc. However I don't really want players banned for doing any of these things either. Glad you have confirmed that your accusation was a stupid, baseless one, if you could try to debate the point rather than attacking posters I am sure you could be a huge success.

I've not attacked any poster thanks. I've "attacked" the points you are making.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 24/07/2014 14:38:46    1625360

What happened in the Dublin/Meath game happened inside the 70mins of play and was included in the referees report with his disciplinary action that he deemed adequate. In my opinion maybe one punch landed in that match by a Meath man, also there was some off the ball stuff by Connolly. But if the ref has taken appropriate action then leave it there.

The refs report can be reviewed by the powers that be in exceptional circumstances i.e biting and a conclusion is made after a hearing.
As hill has said before this happens quite often in both hurling and football. the referees do a quick yellows all round and it is forgotten about. All because it happens during the game.

On the point of Armagh and Cavan, this happened before the game started.
In my opinion it was pre-meditated, Armagh purposely stood behind the Cavan flag to provoke their opposition and I don't think it is a coincidence that Dunne came out the worst off, maybe that is just me being negative.
At the end of the day it worked. Just like it did all those years ago when Mayo warmed up in front of the hill.

It was a tactic that worked for Armagh on the day but I believe they were rightly punished.
Should this have happened inside the 70mins I don't think there would have been any disciplinary action taken after the game. Leave the hitting, grabbing and pushing and shoving for the match, shake hands after and forget about it until you meet again on the pitch. That's the way it should be, none of this malarky before the match.

GAAHattrick (Dublin) - Posts: 278 - 24/07/2014 14:43:02    1625367

Breffni39
So there is no double standard simply because there was a band within 5 metres of what happened? This is some highly curious logic lads.
Punches are punches. A brawl is a brawl. Consistency is Consistency

Why say 5 metres? There was band members actually caught in the furore, if you can knock someone over from 5 metres away you should be in the circus. Trying to insinuate that the band were no closer than 5 metres away, and thereby make the action seem less of an issue is actually a bit shameful. When people show disregard for bystanders, including children, and carry out an attack on another team, it is not the same as 2 teams pushing and shoving among themselves in the middle of a match. You know it and so do I. Therefore the Cavan Armagh game is not the same as either the Dublin-Meath game or the Tyrone-Armagh game. They in turn are comparable to eachother, and as you would expect, had the same result as regards penalties enforced. Therefore, and I repeat, no double standard. Just different cases with different parameters. This facile point that what they were charged with, other guys were guilty of in the other games also, is a non-starter. They used common sense to bring what charges they could against guys who stepped totally and utterly out of line, and fair play to them, if we had more of it the game would be far better off.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/07/2014 15:25:08    1625408

Themaster

Good post.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 24/07/2014 15:36:37    1625414

Themaster, it is a fact that the band was with in 5 metres away. It may have been 1, it may have been 3. If you want to squabble exact distances then fire away but I'm not interested. We could be here a long time arguing about it cos I dont remember anyone having a measuring tape at the time.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 24/07/2014 15:42:57    1625419

GAAHatrick. As an Armagh person i want to point out a couple of things. I am sure even Cavan people will admit that Martin Dunne was not targeted by Armagh. He got suspended for his part in the brawl. It is likely he suffered his injury in the incident he got suspended for. It is also assumed by many that Armagh had a premeditated plan to start a brawl. That is most definitely not the case. They did line up behind the wrong flag as they wanted the line nearer the crowd. McKeever asked the flag bearer to move - she acknowledged this herself. The row started when Cavan ran into the Armagh parade line. Both teams got players suspended - 2 for Cavan and 3 for Armagh. As an Armagh man i feel that this was unfair to Armagh. I was at the match and have seen many videos of the incident.

Also for anyone to compare the Tyrone disagreement with the Dublin v Meath one is way off. In Omagh neither team had a player who threw the punches that I saw Reilly or Burke throw.

Armaghball (Armagh) - Posts: 96 - 24/07/2014 15:44:35    1625420

greengrass

Wrong. You are engaging in semantics. The evidence against O Gara whilst not entirely conclusive certainly indicates that Mickey Burke was bitten. The case involving Paddy McBrearty and Kevin O Brien hinged on Paddy McBrearty not attending The CCCC hearing. Evidence both from the point of view of testimony from McBrearty and photographic evidence was furnished and was deemed conclusive enough to warrant a three game suspension being recommended by The CCCC contingent on Paddy McBrearty confirming his testimony at a hearing of The CCCC. He perhaps understandably given he was only just 19 declined to attend the hearing. The CCCC do not recommend suspensions lightly. They recommend suspensions when they are confident those suspensions will stand up to appeal. To say they had nothing other than an unsubstantiated allegation is rubbish.
sure i could accuse anybody of that without it being true


photographic evidence cannot be used in a gaa disciplinary system so your wrong there.
one persons testimony is hardly evidence something took place considering it was the supposed victim.
dont agree with suggesting becuase he was 19 its ok he didnt attend
o brien is only a young guy too and his name was dragged through the mud yet when push came to shove they wouldnt go through with their supposed allegations,why drag his name through the mud to then back out and leave his name tarnished without any conviction?
if your going to accuse somebody of this you surely should have the decency to then go through with it
if not it only makes out you were making it up in the first place.
as now every time there has been any kind of biting incident o briens name comes up unfairly as he was never convicted.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 24/07/2014 15:47:29    1625421