legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3427

1624870 dstuction - your post is another example of people going on the defensive when comments are passed regards negative football. I prefer attacking football myself but I do enjoy the Ulster battles as well. If someone makes an innocuous comment they'd like to see an attacking style win it out over a negative style, they are met with fury and thunder. People are entitled to have a preference to how they see the game played.

But these comments aren't innocuous. They are either specifically or sub-consciously pointed. Right there in bold you have stated Ulster is negative. Some teams in Ulster play "negative" some teams play "attacking". Some teams outside of Ulster play "attacking" while others play "negative".

I agree people are entitled to have a preference to how they see the game played but they are not entitled to generalise and not be corrected on it. You're either trolling or you simply don't understand the point being made.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 23/07/2014 16:42:56    1624884

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3427

This thread started out wanting to know what style do people think will win the All-Ireland? Very few have been able to give an answer!

I think Dublin will win the All-Ireland. I'll let yourself or Soma decide whether that's attacking, negative or defensive as you seem to have appointed yourselves the arbiters of football styles.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 23/07/2014 16:45:46    1624888

benjyyy
23/07/2014 12:42:26 http://bigsportingblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/game-theory-and-gaelic-football.html

Great piece benjyyy. Really interesting analogy

HandballRef (Donegal) - Posts: 520 - 23/07/2014 16:50:11    1624890

dstuction
County: Donegal
Posts: 734

1624826
This talk of some negative football turning people way from football is utter crap

My brother represented Roscommon many moons ago although gifted his commitment was a lot less so, in fact he went to the Roscommon game with me on Saturday his first to attend since the 90s I had convinced him that it would be a good game that Roscommon were improving and had a good chance.
Having pints with him afterwards he told me he would never go watch that crap again with 8 defenders and 1 up front taking turns running at each other like basketballers no kick passing no chance for forwards to show there skills, he said he would refuse to play up front in such a system.
Thank God he didnt come to the Cavan game cause I thought Antrim played some nice football against us in fairness.
But it does show how the diehards of each county want to win at all costs where as the neutrals are bein turned off by it.

OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 23/07/2014 17:00:38    1624894

dstuction
County: Donegal
Posts: 734

1624826
This talk of some negative football turning people way from football is utter crap

My brother represented Roscommon many moons ago although gifted his commitment was a lot less so, in fact he went to the Roscommon game with me on Saturday his first to attend since the 90s I had convinced him that it would be a good game that Roscommon were improving and had a good chance.
Having pints with him afterwards he told me he would never go watch that crap again with 8 defenders and 1 up front taking turns running at each other like basketballers no kick passing no chance for forwards to show there skills, he said he would refuse to play up front in such a system.
Thank God he didnt come to the Cavan game cause I thought Armagh played some nice football against us in fairness.
But it does show how the diehards of each county want to win at all costs where as the neutrals are bein turned off by it.

OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1764 - 23/07/2014 17:01:44    1624896

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3427

1624870
dstuction - your post is another example of people going on the defensive when comments are passed regards negative football. I prefer attacking football myself but I do enjoy the Ulster battles as well. If someone makes an innocuous comment they'd like to see an attacking style win it out over a negative style, they are met with fury and thunder. People are entitled to have a preference to how they see the game played.

This thread started out wanting to know what style do people think will win the All-Ireland? Very few have been able to give an answer!

I want to see the defensive style win an All Ireland this year.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 23/07/2014 17:07:52    1624900

To simply use terms like "attacking", "negative" & "defensive" doesn't really serve us well here. There is a lot more to Dublin than just all out attack & a lot more to Donegal than being defensive.

There is an excellent article in today's Irish Times, written by Darragh O Sé which explains things far better than I ever could.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/donegal-back-to-2012-form-and-can-beat-dublin-1.1874815

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/07/2014 17:10:10    1624906

lol Breffni39, lol!

If we're broadening the discussion, which will naturally happen in any debate, even like this, there is more to both teams play alright MuckrossHead. At the same time though, a lot of teams with a purpose have an ethos. Donegal's is more defensive. The other 3 provincial winners is more attack minded.

Sounds as if O'Sé was watching the replays back a few times there when writing that article. RTE player can be useful!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7856 - 23/07/2014 17:25:21    1624914

Listen there is nothing better than watching a fair hard tackle or an intelligent piece of defending where a defender can read a situation and think 3 moves ahead in order to get into the correct position or intercept a ball

That type of play is marvelous

But don't marvel great defending when it's just putting 13 men behind the ball

There is a balance between the two...

When it's done right.. that's football at it's best.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 23/07/2014 17:31:28    1624916

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 476

1624671
It's just a team believing they are less talented than the opposition that baffles me benjyy. I bet if I asked you to compare Donegals 6 defenders to Dublins 6 you would probably say Donegals 6 are better. The same probably applies to the midfielders and full forward line. Why then believe Dublins 15 are still better than Donegals? And a word of warning, try not to use the term 'defensive' in any post about Donegal, it unleashes the dogs of war!

It's not a question of better or worse but of different attributes.

What Dubin have in spades, from the half back line up, is blinding speed. Donegal don't have that & so can't hope to compete on Dublin's terms. Donegal compensate by setting themselves up in such a way as to negate their lack of pace & allows multiple points of attack including full backs.
The reason they retreat when they lose possession is that the opposing team is not gong to score from their own half or from midfield. So Donegal set up in numbers at the danger zone & try to effect a turnover where they can counter attack.
Dublin won't do this because it doesn't suit their players, instead they press high up the pitch. To each their own.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/07/2014 18:03:31    1624935

jimbodub
County: Dublin
Posts: 12853

1624916
Listen there is nothing better than watching a fair hard tackle or an intelligent piece of defending where a defender can read a situation and think 3 moves ahead in order to get into the correct position or intercept a ball

That type of play is marvelous

But don't marvel great defending when it's just putting 13 men behind the ball

There is a balance between the two...

When it's done right.. that's football at it's best.

I don't disagree with you jimbo but if you read O Sé's article you will see that it is far from "just putting 13 men behind the ball"

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/07/2014 18:06:08    1624937

Muck

Put 13 men in a space where there's another 8 0r 9

Doesn't leave a whole amount of space

Dublin learned how to do this from getting beaten by 10+ point against Meath in 2010

In the space of one game - Dublin had a packed defense and had it well drilled and practiced

So much so they were 1 point shy of an AI final

It didn't take Dublin long how to play ultra defensively

One game in fact...

I don't buy into the genius of putting 13 men behind the ball and converting forwards into defenders

It took Dublin one game to adjust and play a completely alien type of football compared to previous traditions.

So... well... it's nothing amazing... or maybe Dublin were just hugely gifted individuals that could pull it off so quickly??

I wouldn't be so sure of the last bit...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 23/07/2014 18:16:34    1624940

do you not factor in dublin playing a different style during the league that year and practicing that system?..the meath result was a complete freak..and dublin have the players to be superior to most teams no matter what style they play...you seem to have no appreciation for tactics..if it was so basic then how come dublin didnt win the all ireland with it and donegal did?....if it was so basic then lots of other teams would easily be able to do it and be successful..most teams dream of what donegal have achieved under jim mcguiness...donegal v cork in 2009 good example..techinically playing a blanket defence but in essence it was a bunch of lads standing around marking space and not particularly doing anything

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 23/07/2014 18:25:39    1624949

jimbo

Turning forwards into defenders is the easy part, turning defenders into forwards at the same time , now there's the trick.

Indeed talking about defenders & forwards is to a degree redundant. Murphy at half back, McGee in the opposition penalty area, McGlynn, Thompson, Lacey taking their scores, McHugh named at corner back, Young O'Connor, all 5' 5'' of him, named at midfield.
What we are moving to is players being interchangeable, fulfilling roles & keeping the opposition guessing, I think it's great.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/07/2014 18:37:40    1624961

Good article from Darragh O'Se. I think I enjoy reading about tactics more than actually watching tactical battles.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 23/07/2014 18:40:57    1624964

agree muckross...fluid interchangable football..tyrone and kerry were exellent at it..donegal seem to have taken it to a new level though as at least those sides generally played with a relatively orthodox inside forward line

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 23/07/2014 18:41:19    1624965

I think that is the crux of the thing in that people seem to think it is just a matter of putting as many men behind the ball as possible and off you go and try and win an All Ireland - I think there is a real lack of understanding of the teams that are being classified as negative.

To answer the question 'This thread started out wanting to know what style do people think will win the All-Ireland? Very few have been able to give an answer! '

I honestly do not care as long as the team that wins it in the end are made to earn it.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 23/07/2014 19:13:34    1624987

To answer the question 'This thread started out wanting to know what style do people think will win the All-Ireland? Very few have been able to give an answer! '

I think it would have been better if the thread had asked "All out Attack V Counter Attack" as opposed to "Attacking football V Negative football". Use of the term "negative" started things off on the wrong foot & it has just been a bunfight since.

I enjoy both approaches & really want to see the flagbearers of both styles meet face to face.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/07/2014 19:56:50    1625007

OhtobeaRossie there was a great interview in a national paper a few weeks ago with the Galway goalie from the 3-in-a-row team. He said he only watches the occasional game now because he believes most modern teams play a style of football that is terrible to watch, and that he tends to watch hurling games instead where the man-to-man battles continue. It is definitely true that in many parts of the country people are turning their backs on the game of gaelic football, which is why I am hoping that attacking football wins out this year. For defensive football to work everything needs to go right in my view. For attacking football to work it only needs to find one chink in the opponents armour. That is why I think defensive football teams will win All-Irelands occasionally, but teams who play attacking football can put All-Irelands back-to-back.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 23/07/2014 20:04:09    1625014

lol Soma - that old chestnut.

Up and down the land we have guys reminiscing about the good old days, teams of yesterday and how the players and games of today would compare or more often not. I hear it all the time in my local area, in my work and out and about. I hear former players regularly say they cannot watch games because of the standard. It is called megalomania and I must admit if I had money for every time I said the current first team representing my local club would not beat the reserve team of 15yrs ago I would be a very rich man. We all like to think that we were part of some golden generation the like of which could never be topped. Being part of a 3 in a row team obviously gives that individual a platform to publicly feed his ego.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 23/07/2014 20:42:14    1625036