snipingfredo
County: Armagh
Posts: 37

1623912 Attacking football is far better! Tyrone and Donegal ruined football.With cynical and negative football.

LOL

That post is the funniest on here, everyone blames Tyrone for the blanket and crowd defending, sure didnt we copy Armagh who started the whole thing, the idea of stopping your oppositon from playing lies solely with Armagh...... care to take a look at the history reel,,

Game2Halves (Tyrone) - Posts: 265 - 22/07/2014 15:19:25    1624122

If attacking football (Dublin) met defensive football (Donegal) on a tighter provincial ground, like Navan, Portlaois, Breffni, then defence wins every time. But I think space is too hard to block in Croke Park. The Dubs would win that every time comfortably.

Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 22/07/2014 16:55:54    1624247

Offside_Rule how wide ranging are your stats? Could you do one for the number of times a ball was kicked into a 1 man forward line with 7 opposition defenders around him for each province please when you get a minute? Or the number of times the opposition forward line turn their back to the ball after being dispossessed so they can run back and congregate on their own 45, rather than putting pressure on the opposition to try and steal the ball back immediately?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 22/07/2014 17:56:46    1624315

put it this way you can defend for 70 minutes but still need to score haha
so if you score more than the other team you will win regardless of how much you concede

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 22/07/2014 18:09:06    1624330

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 458

1624315
Offside_Rule how wide ranging are your stats? Could you do one for the number of times a ball was kicked into a 1 man forward line with 7 opposition defenders around him for each province please when you get a minute? Or the number of times the opposition forward line turn their back to the ball after being dispossessed so they can run back and congregate on their own 45, rather than putting pressure on the opposition to try and steal the ball back immediately?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Surely these things would mean that teams would score less...which directly contradicts the stats that Offside_Rule has shown?

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 22/07/2014 18:11:28    1624332

Are you saying these things didn't happen on Sunday benjyy? Because they most certainly did. That is why stats should be used as an aid, rather than taken as the final word.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 22/07/2014 18:26:04    1624342

No bother Soma. Sure tell you what, when I've that done I'll drop them to you and could make your supper if you like. Could even wear a dress if you want?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/07/2014 18:44:50    1624358

On the stats I put up - all they show is the Ulster teams are as every bit attacking as the other Provinces. And also that this makes their style defending or attacking. Or football as we call it up here.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/07/2014 18:47:51    1624361

Offside-Rule because you love them here are some more stats. Number of football All-Irelands won by Tipperary: 4, Mayo: 3, Donegal: 2. Are we in agreement that Tipperary is twice as strong a football county as Donegal, and stronger than Mayo as well? Or should stats use a bit of context before we jump to conclusions?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 22/07/2014 19:16:03    1624383

fire_in_belly - the title of the thread is appropriate. Last Sunday's final was absorbing in some respects. I'm not attacking defensive football at all! You've proved my point that supporters of defensive football tend to get very defensive when people suggest they'll like to see attacking football win out. Anyways the question was straight forward, which approach is likely to win out this year?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7847 - 22/07/2014 19:29:38    1624400

the title of the thread is not appropriate in my opinion....attacking football v defensive football/counter-attacking football is more apt...the term 'negative' i find to be something of a pot shot at somebody...the best implementers of this defensive/counter-attacking football were kerry and tyrone and also donegal in 2012...kerry 2009 final second half especially great example of defensive counter attacking football

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 22/07/2014 19:33:28    1624405

Well your stats are using a spread of 130 odd years while mine are present and relevant to the context of the topic and I believe they dispel the idea the football in Ulster isn't as attacking. There are plenty of arguments for and against the stats you've just used and if you start a post on that you'll probably get good arguments against your research.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/07/2014 19:36:00    1624408

Offside-Rule because you love them here are some more stats. Number of football All-Irelands won by Tipperary: 4, Mayo: 3, Donegal: 2. Are we in agreement that Tipperary is twice as strong a football county as Donegal, and stronger than Mayo as well? Or should stats use a bit of context before we jump to conclusions?

Bang on - context is very important when presenting figures. Offside presented figures from this years provincial championships and gave average scores per game so was comparing like with like and was using the figures to demonstrate that Ulster was pretty much as high scoring as the rest - good use of figures in the context.

Tipperary 4 All Irelands won way back when compared to Donegals 2 to say Tipp are twice as strong as Donegal - poor use of figures in the context.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 22/07/2014 19:37:42    1624410

some people just have certain biases offside and cant let them go no matter what evidence is put in front of them...it is quite sad that people are still listening to what spillane has to say after his infamous 2003 statement

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 22/07/2014 19:41:32    1624417

Soma
You are being a bit ridiculous at this stage, firstly your point has nothing got to do with who would win out between an attacking team and a defensive team, rather trying yet again to push your opinion of how bad it is to see a defensive setup in a game. Snap out of it, over the last couple of days between this and the reputation of ulster forum, you have been given facts by Offside_Rule and Naysayer which reflect CURRENT stats (not irrelevant ones from 19whatever when Tipp won all-irelands) and they contradict your arguments. Instead of accepting this you walk around the facts and preach about a one man forward line that still managed to score 1-09. If you opened your eyes you would see that the swarm defence is the foundation which may look ugly but then you have the counter attack which is fantastic to watch. When you have two very fit and astute defences however its hard to see the counter attacking phase.

SamT2012 (Donegal) - Posts: 66 - 22/07/2014 19:55:47    1624428

Some of these threads really are tiresome and only serve to allow dim witted fools display their bias, prejudice & ignorance.

I will hold my head in the air & move on.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/07/2014 19:56:47    1624431

Ah look it it's debatable fabio. Negative tactics are being employed. It's not a pot shot at all. As I say I was absorbed by the final in a certain context.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7847 - 22/07/2014 20:07:47    1624450

Tis fabio. If people thought for themselves and sat down to watch the games from around the Provinces without this notion that certain games are going to be dull or negative otherwise why bother watching them. Sit down and enjoy the game for its diversity in approach and how the tactics play out.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/07/2014 20:10:06    1624455

agree offside...i dont know how all these people watch soccer and what they make of the tactics because they can be so varied?...did you describe kerrys tactics in 2009 as negative legend?...describing something as 'negative' i find is a clear potshot...its defensive/counter attacking...in soccer if 2 defensive sides play each other the match can often be quite cagey..its when there is a great clash of the styles that the matches can often be brilliant as exemplified by the tyrone kerry clashes in the 00s where 2 sides could play in such varied styles with superb footballers..total football...appreciate the differences..no need to be describing something as negative

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 22/07/2014 20:20:19    1624463

JMK
County: Kerry
Posts: 251

1624098
It really is funny how defensive (excuse the pun) people get over this attacking/defending debate.

Right, being from Kerry perhaps my ideal of watching football is skewed, also the fact I play either as a forward or an attacking half back, but I'll always choose attacking football. Saying that though there is a lot of teams labelled as "negative" that I think is incorrect. Now I'm not a Donegal fan as I'm still sour over paying into croker to see the Semi final in 2011, but they're not that negative of a team. They (arguably) played the best attacking football in 2012. Fair enough 2011 was a pain to watch but in their defense they built on that and played great counter attacking football in 2012. 2013 was a write off, but judging by the Ulster final this week, have they reverted back to 2011, to gain momentum again? I wasn't impressed at all by the Ulster final, I thought if Monaghan had played a bit more intelligently they could have won hands down. Which Donegal team shows up in the QF is the big question for me. I hope it will be the team of 2012, who were extremely entertaining, but if it's the 2011/Ulster final team, then I'll be disappointed. And final note, JMG knew how Monaghan would set out, I doubt Donegal will have same game plan against different opposition.

In terms of other teams, that have been deemed "negative", one person mentioned Tyrone. Really?? Again, the early days they used the blanket defense to gain a platform, but they went on and built on that. If they were that negative, how were Mulligan, O'Neill, Cavanagh et al winning all stars?? There are some teams who use the blanket and thats all we've seen from them, but you can't call a team negative if they start out defensive and build on that and use counter attacking football.

Final note, defensive to the extreme of both teams putting 14 men behind the ball to me has absolutely no entertaining value. All out attack can, but as shown in croker on sunday, it can also lead to a boring game. The difference is that we at least see skill in the all out attack format. But teams who play with a sweeper (or two), defend well and counter attack, like Tyrone, Donegal and even Dublin at their peaks is extremely entertaining. I think the best games are when either two counter attacking teams face each other, or when all out attack meets counter attacking.

Truly excellent post jmk, however I doubt it will gain much traction amongst some of the posters here. Too much thought went into it.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 22/07/2014 20:22:25    1624464