@GaryMc82: Seeing as Mayo & Kerry are among the top 3/4 sides in the country, I don't think you could argue that they are on the easier side of the draw. Both have consistently contested all Ireland finals and semis in the last 3 years. No team outside of Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo or Kerry will win Sam in my view. Dublin are obviously the strong favourites but I'd put Kerry and Mayo at 2 & 3. Only my opinion and I know it's not shared by everyone.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 17/07/2014 17:25:03    1620757

Funny how the Ulster lads are saying Dublin are on the hard side of the draw, and Dublin lads are saying Dublin are on the easy side of the draw!

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 17/07/2014 17:27:43    1620759

SamT - McBrearty has played 4 championship games in Croke Park and has scored 1 point I think. Himself and McFadden each have scored 1 point from play so far this year in Ulster. Your definition of a start forward is very different to mine, and your definition of what a heavy scorer is seems to be very different to mine. Declan O'Sullivan is one of the best forwards of the last 20 years with an incredible level of skill - I have watched him many times and still don't know which foot is supposed to be his weaker.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 17/07/2014 17:38:52    1620769

I can't believe someone has claimed the safety blanket of the qualifiers is an advantage for Kerry. Sure all counties have use of the qualifiers to get their championship challenge back on the road. We used it ourselves in 2009. We lost out in a Munster semi-final replay, dropped into Q2, got our championship challenge back on the road and thankfully made it all the way.

Other claims of easing into the championship are ridiculous. Dublin Region dominated Leinster from '05 to '09. Using the northern logic, Dublin Region should have been winning All-Ireland's then as well before their '11 breakthrough. In Connaught then, applying northern logic, it's Mayo who should have winning All-Ireland's.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7856 - 17/07/2014 17:41:31    1620770

he was comparing the current declan o sullivan soma.

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 17/07/2014 17:43:06    1620772

pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 712

1620757
@GaryMc82: Seeing as Mayo & Kerry are among the top 3/4 sides in the country, I don't think you could argue that they are on the easier side of the draw. Both have consistently contested all Ireland finals and semis in the last 3 years. No team outside of Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo or Kerry will win Sam in my view. Dublin are obviously the strong favourites but I'd put Kerry and Mayo at 2 & 3. Only my opinion and I know it's not shared by everyone.


But are Kerry a top 3/4 side? I mean really look at Munster, and I have to wonder whether or not they really deserve that mantle. Sure they always make the All Ireland series without much sweat, but have shown constantly in the past 3 or 4 seasons that they are behind Dublin, Donegal and Mayo. I

Mayo this year lack punch, It is evident from both games against Roscommon and Galway. Essentially they are suffering a similar fate that Donegal suffered last season minus the hangover, however they haven't a Monaghan in Connaught to expose those cracks. And they the All Ireland series in a half that is unlikely to expose it in any great fashion.


At full strength and full hunger, I would rank Mayo as maybe 3rd or 4th best team in the country in this current era. But I just don't feel it this year.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 18/07/2014 14:54:07    1621170

pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 712

1620757
@GaryMc82: Seeing as Mayo & Kerry are among the top 3/4 sides in the country, I don't think you could argue that they are on the easier side of the draw. Both have consistently contested all Ireland finals and semis in the last 3 years. No team outside of Monaghan, Dublin, Mayo or Kerry will win Sam in my view. Dublin are obviously the strong favourites but I'd put Kerry and Mayo at 2 & 3. Only my opinion and I know it's not shared by everyone.


But are Kerry a top 3/4 side? I mean really look at Munster, and I have to wonder whether or not they really deserve that mantle. Sure they always make the All Ireland series without much sweat, but have shown constantly in the past 3 or 4 seasons that they are behind Dublin, Donegal and Mayo. I would add Monaghan to the top 4 this year, and I would put Kerry behind them.

Mayo this year lack punch, It is evident from both games against Roscommon and Galway. Essentially they are suffering a similar fate that Donegal suffered last season minus the hangover, however they haven't a Monaghan in Connaught to expose those cracks. And they the All Ireland series in a half that is unlikely to expose it in any great fashion.


At full strength and full hunger, I would rank Mayo as maybe 3rd or 4th best team in the country in this current era. But I just don't feel it this year.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 18/07/2014 14:55:10    1621172

@ GaryMc

"[Kerry] have shown constantly in the past 3 or 4 seasons that they are behind Dublin, Donegal and Mayo."

Fair enough on the Dublin point, but 3 seasons ago Kerry beat Mayo, and haven't played them in championship since. One could argue they could have beaten Dublin just as easily as Mayo could have, but both failed. I know it finished 7 points rather than 1, but I don't think anyone can say Dublin were 7 points better than Kerry in the semi last year. As far as Donegal, fair enough 2012, but 2013?? And this season so far, how can you really put Donegal ahead of Kerry. I'm not saying Kerry are 2nd best team in the country right now, but they are not far off. I really think you have Dublin at the top with the rest chasing, at very similar level. I'd put Mayo slightly ahead for consistency, but then again Kerry and Donegal have beaten them in recent seasons. I just don't think you write off Kerry, and at the same time say that Donegal and Monaghan are realistic contenders.

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 18/07/2014 15:50:37    1621205

I don't think anyone can say Dublin were 7 points better than Kerry in the semi last year

____________

Definitely not! Agree with you completely JMK

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 18/07/2014 16:43:21    1621227

What I would like everybody to do is watch The Ulster final Sunday that's if you are not at the game.
Now we have already seen 2 finals so far and the third will be over before the Ulster final starts
I would like people to watch how the Mon/Done defences operate , how difficult it is to score,to get a bit of space Watch the tackling and watch how physical the game is ( well that's what I expect)
Then think back to the Munster final , all the space Kerry got to operate and how easy it was to get a shot in. Similar things happened last Sunday in Castlebar. Same happened in Kildare v Meath.
Make up your minds where the toughest football is, the most competitive.
Though I expect Donegal to win , it's going to take one massive performance.

Now Soma if you watched Donegal in 2012 you know what CMcFadden was capable of , he ended up leading scorer that year. Still fresh in my mind that point against Cork after half time.
Same day I thought P McBrearty contributed big time as if memory serves me right he spent a lot of time out field M Murphy/CMcF were our main score getters that year and our defenders raked up quite an impressive score on the way to Sam Pmc Brearty is 21 in August with 2Ulster(possible3) and a CELTIC cross Not bad going for a young lad and I suggest you back him to be Man of the match Sunday

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 18/07/2014 22:04:01    1621387

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1223


But are Kerry a top 3/4 side? I mean really look at Munster, and I have to wonder whether or not they really deserve that mantle. Sure they always make the All Ireland series without much sweat, but have shown constantly in the past 3 or 4 seasons that they are behind Dublin, Donegal and Mayo. I would add Monaghan to the top 4 this year, and I would put Kerry behind them.


.........................................................................................................

Is munster really that bad? How come the same sentiments dont go towards leinster sides? The last 3 years we (tipp) have played Offaly, Wexford, Longford and Laois in the championship. Limerick have a decent record in the qualifiers also and i will be looking forward to see how clare get on today

tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 19/07/2014 08:25:10    1621392

Well I think it's pretty clear the worst province is Leinster. Ulster is still probably slightly ahead. I think strength is judged on a few things not just all Ireland wins but how strong are the weaker teams as that tells you about overall strength. League position to. Only one ulster team resides in division4 while Leinster will have 4. Munster will have only one from 6 too. Div one next year will only have one Leinster team two Munster one Connaught and the other 4 ulster. There have been 3 different winners from ulster so far this century which is more than any other province. Tht would also indicate strength in depth.

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1595 - 19/07/2014 09:55:50    1621407

The division two final between these two was an awful game. Just because it's tough does not mean its top quality. Fit fast hard tackling negative does not mean they would beat an equally fit team such as Kerry or Mayo. Monaghan went down last year to a poor Tyrone performance and Tyrone were easily beaten by Mayo how is that. One of these teams will win ulster in a tough provincial championship but putting Monaghan ahead of Kerry or Mayo is baseless and after Sunday it will still be that.

jonno (Kildare) - Posts: 260 - 19/07/2014 10:29:24    1621413

Sam of course McFadden is a fine footballer, there is no question of that as he has proven it over many years. However to say he is a star forward in 2014 but neither Declan or Darren O'Sullivan are is what I was objecting to. McFadden is older than both O'Sullivans and never had their pace either. I remember against Cork in a Munster final the O'Sullivans kicking 1-8 from play, they were and remain excellent footballers. And while McBrearty is promising, no matter what way you look at it 1 point in 4 championship appearances in Croke Park is a poor return. As Kerry will tell you Croke Park is where it counts, and when Michael Murphy gets there he generally does make it count. McBrearty might turn it on there later this year, but his form in Ulster so far with 1 point in 2 fairly high scoring games suggests he may be struggling.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 19/07/2014 11:27:22    1621423

18/07/2014 16:43:21
waynoI
County: Dublin
Posts: 9597

1621227
I don't think anyone can say Dublin were 7 points better than Kerry in the semi last year

____________

Definitely not! Agree with you completely JMK

Exactly JMK and waynoI. It's gas how people sometimes focus on the result more than the game itself. Kerry played Mayo years ago and were streets ahead of them. Kerry made a few changes and Mayo closed the large gap to just 3 points at the finish. The following year Mayo looked upon a league win and the loss by only 3 points the year before, totally dismissing the gap that was there before Kerry eased up. The result was a comfortable win for Kerry.
As JMK, and waynoI sensibly and knowledgeably agrees with, last years semi-final was a close game. Kerry wasted a crucial point scoring opportunity late on and Dublin Region like any great side punished them from the next kick out and added another goal on top of it.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7856 - 19/07/2014 13:16:11    1621461

Yeah sure we'll reassess it, 3 teams in the last 8 of this years championship and 4 out of 8 in division 1 next year. It's not even debatable. Close down this thread!!

crnm (Donegal) - Posts: 100 - 03/08/2014 12:50:16    1630463

crnm, we are the province they all love to hate and we revel in it. Ulster was the seat of Irish rebellion, language, music and culture for centuries while the rest of them rolled over for the colonialists; they are just jealous of us. We have fire and fight in our bellies which they don't.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9703 - 03/08/2014 13:36:53    1630521

Hahahahaha

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 03/08/2014 14:54:30    1630592

Let's be honest here...everyone knew Monaghan and Donegal would be in the quarter finals lads. Armagh have pleasantly surprised. I'm actually surprised Monaghan struggled to put away an average Kildare side. After next weekend, Ulster will have one team left, and they won't beat Dublin. Ulster isn't weak, I never said it was. It's not as strong currently as it's made out to be. That certainly hasn't changed.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 03/08/2014 14:59:06    1630598

Between this year and last year 5 Ulster counties will have played in a All-Ireland quarter final. That is impressive.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 03/08/2014 15:06:57    1630606