Ulsterman: Respect should be kept for after the game, awards ceremonies and dinner dances NOT before it

Absolutely, if only the Irish rugby team could take that on board when they play NZ! Despite all that bravado though we both know that Tyrone team were the only ones that didn't have a mental block against Kerry, plenty of other teams up North fear us just as much as anyone and if the current Tyrone team had sense they would too!



SamT2012

Tyrone, Armagh and Donegal is hardly 'a mass' of Ulster teams. And let's be clear all very narrow victories and in the case of 2002, 2008 and 2012 I feel each were games Kerry left behind them...

On another point, did you actually say that both the Monaghan and Donegal have a forward line which is better than a unit consisting of Declan O'Sullivan, James O'Donoghue, Darran O'Sullivan, Bryan Sheehan, Donnacha Walsh. I know Gooch is a genius but surely you are long enough watching football to know Kerry were never a one man show??

Just wait till the Kingdom come home to Croke Park, they'll show you what a Kerry forward line can do, in case you have forgotten!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 17/07/2014 12:49:01    1620579

pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 710

1620576 Stats don't lie:

In the last 10 years the following is the provincial breakdown of All Ireland Final Appearances:

Munster: 10
Leinster: 6
Connacht: 4
Ulster: 4

Last 5 years:
Munster: 4
Ulster: 2
Connacht: 2
Leinster 2

How were there 24 All Ireland Finalists in the last 10 years?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 17/07/2014 12:54:52    1620582

Stats don't lie:

In the last 10 years the following is the provincial breakdown of All Ireland Final Appearances:

Munster: 10
Leinster: 6
Connacht: 4
Ulster: 4

Last 5 years:
Munster: 4
Ulster: 2
Connacht: 2
Leinster 2

This shows you that Kerry has been the strongest county, not that Munster is the strongest province.

Breakdown of number of counties fro each province in All-Ireland Finals in last 10 years.

Ulster:3
Munster:2
Leinster:1
Connaught:1

Ulster has a greater strength in depth if not necessarily the top counties. Just for your own benefit. Number of All-Ireland won by Connaught teams in the last 10 years.... 0 :)

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 17/07/2014 12:56:31    1620584

pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 710

1620576 Stats don't lie:

In the last 10 years the following is the provincial breakdown of All Ireland Final Appearances:

Munster: 10
Leinster: 6
Connacht: 4
Ulster: 4

Last 5 years:
Munster: 4
Ulster: 2
Connacht: 2
Leinster 2

What's the stats for winners?

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 17/07/2014 12:57:44    1620586

Stats don't lie:

In the last 10 years the following is the provincial breakdown of All Ireland Final Appearances:

Munster: 10
Leinster: 6
Connacht: 4
Ulster: 4

Last 5 years:
Munster: 4
Ulster: 2
Connacht: 2
Leinster 2

Also why not show the last 13 years (since qualifiers came in) rather than the last 10 years or would that skew the message you want to put out?

In addition you say stats do not lie. Well unfortunately stats only tell part of the story. Good robust analysis involves both quantitative and qualitative analysis. As such dangerous to look at the figures in isolation without trying to put some meat on the bones as to the reasons the figures are arrived at.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 17/07/2014 13:00:12    1620588

pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 710

1620576 Stats don't lie:

In the last 10 years the following is the provincial breakdown of All Ireland Final Appearances:

Munster: 10
Leinster: 6
Connacht: 4
Ulster: 4

Last 5 years:
Munster: 4
Ulster: 2
Connacht: 2
Leinster 2

I think without Dublin Leinster would get a walloping from the other provinces. But saying that I think if you throw 3 or 4 player into the Dublin team from other counties they would probably be better than the other provinces. In fact Dublin on their own would probably beat most of the provinces.

Nick (Wexford) - Posts: 1100 - 17/07/2014 13:00:58    1620589

The irony Liam is, that any time a thread about Dublin appears nearly to a man (or woman) ye all circle the wagons taking offence at any comment yet you throw out a statement like yours above. If the cap fits my friend.

Bang on Off_side - lot of similarities in Dublin and Ulster when it come to the threads - folk like to put the boot into each while inhabitants of each are quick to defend (or take offense as some would say)

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 17/07/2014 13:10:59    1620599

There can't be 24 counties appearing in the last 10 years in All-Ireland Finals.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2990 - 17/07/2014 14:08:31    1620637

2004: Kerry V Mayo
2005: Kerry V Tyrone
2006: Kerry V Mayo
2007: Kerry V Cork
2008: Kerry V Tyrone
2009: Kerry V Cork
2010: Cork V Down
2011: Kerry V Dublin
2012: Donegal V Mayo
2013: Dublin V Mayo

Munster:10
Ulster:4
Connaught: 4
Leinster: 2

In fairness that was some achievement by Kerry reaching 6 All Ireland finals in a row.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 17/07/2014 14:36:33    1620653

legendzxix - I am aware that Down didnt win in 2010, I'm not sure why you pointed that out maybe you read my post wrong.

the hermit - Mass might be a strong word, four ulster counties have beaten kerry, Donegal, Down, Armagh and Tyrone with three of these capturing the title. I dont see the point of ulster teams beating kerry as a measurement of how good a province is though. To measure the strength of a province you have to look at the standard of every county not just the top 2 or 3 in that province. Regarding kerrys forward line i think james o donoghue is the only star forward the rest in my opinion are ball winners and work horses, we will see how they fair against better defences. Monaghan have Hughes and McManus aswell as good ball winners and long range point scorers, Donegal have Murphy, McFadden and McBrearty. However you would know more about the potential of the current kerry forward line than me.

SamT2012 (Donegal) - Posts: 66 - 17/07/2014 15:00:29    1620664

Liamwalkinstown
County: Dublin
Posts: 5710

1620521
tis an awful state of affairs when a lad has to spend 10 pages apologizing for stating his opinions. Some people just LOVE to be offended!
Take no notice Exile! For what its worth, I agree with you.

That's the first time I've taken any comment on this thread to heart! I didn't apologise once Liam, and I won't :P

I must say though, it's funny looking at all these numbers and lists being thrown out by both sides of the argument. You need an A1 in Honours Maths just to take part in these debates nowadays :(

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 17/07/2014 15:29:38    1620679

In a thread that has had many bizarre statements, surely the craziest of all is the suggestion that Declan and Darren O'Sullivan are not star forwards but instead work horses and ball winners. Clearly there is a very different view of what a star forward is in the north of the country compared to the south of the country. McBrearty and McFadden star forwards but not the O'Sullivans - what can you say to something like that?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 17/07/2014 15:56:39    1620699

It really stands out when you look at it like that JP91. When you consider they were in the semi all other years also, it is actually quite astounding. Although in fairness, it is nicely set up for them to progress. They get a few easy games to ease in, then a good test against cork while the safety blanket of the qualifiers is still there. It sets them up nicely for the quarter finals. But still, it is some going.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 17/07/2014 15:59:45    1620701

@SamT2012 - you said this decade's AI winners were Leinster and Ulster only.

@JP91 - fair play for recognising a notable achievement. Many of us knew we were spoilt in that period to have a team making so many finals and winning 5 in all in the last decade. Since 2010 we've been in transition.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7856 - 17/07/2014 16:04:16    1620703

Jasus looking at those stats there is not pretty reading for us Mayo fans..IF we get to the final this year we will have been in HALF of all senior finals in the past 10 years....we won't mind if we do manage the breakthrough mind you this year.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11232 - 17/07/2014 16:15:13    1620707

pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 710

1620576
Stats don't lie:

In the last 10 years the following is the provincial breakdown of All Ireland Final Appearances:

Munster: 10
Leinster: 6
Connacht: 4
Ulster: 4

Last 5 years:
Munster: 4
Ulster: 2
Connacht: 2
Leinster 2

Yes but final appearances don't always tell the full story, for while the winner may be the strongest side, the runner up could well be the 4th, 5th or 6th strongest side. Like this year, where Kerry and Mayo are in the softer side of the draw, which means easy passage to the final regardless of where they actually stand in official rankings.

To review the true strength of a Province, you must use all statistics from All Ireland QF, SF and Final over a 5-15 year period. National League positions year on year, who consistantly has the most teams placed in the top 8-16.
Remember it is a Province you are reviewing, not any Individual team. So All Ireland final's alone will not suffice, as generally only one side can be guaranteed to be the absolute best.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 17/07/2014 16:28:06    1620715

lengendzxix - I was taking it that there was 10 years in a decade 1-10 apologies

Soma - Declan O Sullivan has a lot of miles now and is being used as a breaking ball winner around the middle third and scoring long range points, with a good defence and midfield i cant see him having as much influence as he used to....bear in mind we are talking in the present not when Declan was in his pomp.

Darren has great pace and again can look very good given space but when you are up against a good defence he struggles to have an impact, in fairness he isnt a massive score getter.

The lads i listed from donegal and monaghan are all good ball winners, have pace, usually score heavily no matter who marks them

I think when you break it down Soma its not that ridiculous maybe you have different opinions.

SamT2012 (Donegal) - Posts: 66 - 17/07/2014 16:44:57    1620726

I don't see why this stuff matters. It's nice to see Ulster teams do well but I don't think it should be turned into an Ulster v the rest thing. Not a remarkable year for the province so far but I'm a billion times more concerned with Tyrone.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 17/07/2014 16:54:59    1620732

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 433

1620699 In a thread that has had many bizarre statements, surely the craziest of all is the suggestion that Declan and Darren O'Sullivan are not star forwards but instead work horses and ball winners. Clearly there is a very different view of what a star forward is in the north of the country compared to the south of the country. McBrearty and McFadden star forwards but not the O'Sullivans - what can you say to something like that?

Oh clearly. If one person says something then it is undeniably a view shared by an arbitrary grouping of hundreds of thousands of people on a geographical basis.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 17/07/2014 16:58:17    1620733

SamT - Thanks for taking the time to reply but I am afraid my view is still very different to yours. In his last 5 championship games Paddy McBrearty isn't even averaging 1 point per game - Donegal scored 3-16 against Antrim and together McFadden and McBrearty contributed 1 point from play. Declan O'Sullivan is one of the most naturally gifted footballers I have ever seen, kicking scores from both feet so well it is hard to know which is his strong foot. To describe him as a work horse or ball winner just seems very strange. Darren has had a bad run with injuries but is still one of the games most exciting attackers when in full flow. To say McFadden has pace is probably stretching things also. Paul Geaney has kicked 0-9 in his first 2 championship games as well remember, I don't think McBrearty has scored that in his last 10 championship games. I do think McBrearty is decent, but he is not in the same league as the O'Sullivans at all.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 17/07/2014 17:09:29    1620739