If it were an open draw there would be only 1 winner and 32 losers, not 1 big winner, 4 smaller winners and 27-28 losers like now.

Muineachán would look upon last year as a massive let down.

About 29 of the counties could send out any team they liked as effectively they would be playing for nothing.

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 16/07/2014 16:35:08    1620314

TheRightStuff
County: Donegal
Posts: 375

1620261
Treaty - it's posters like you that drives a wedge between counties etc.

That's a big statement buddy.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 16/07/2014 16:36:39    1620317

I totally agree tseanbhac, would hate to see provincial championship disappear.

pj_mcmanus (Limerick) - Posts: 431 - 16/07/2014 16:37:26    1620318

@ Treaty
Look bud, you've made your point. You can see there are some very reasonable football fans from Ulster that can see what you're saying and haven't gone on the defensive straight away. They've made fair and respectful arguments and some have agreed. For the others that have a chip on their shoulder, and who have to stab at Kerry's successes (how did that start exactly in this thread?), there's no point even arguing they can't view football from a neutral stand point. Thankfully it's just a limited number of Ulster fans, I think just these guys have louder voices than others. I get the whole history of how Ulster footballers (especially the Northern counties) had to fight for their identity, but why you can't see things from a neutral standpoint now in this day and age is beyond me. This always reminds me of the song Zombie. Treaty was not attacking Ulster football he was merely posing the question as to whether people agreed with view that Ulster football has taken a small step back in terms of quality, after being so strong for the last 22 years.

Amen, JMK. I'm going to leave this thread to be teased out by whoever thinks it's necessary to do so. I've made my point, and I think a lot of people see it for what I intended it to be: a genuine debate on the current strength of Ulster football, which I PERSONALLY do not believe it is all that strong CURRENTLY (Ulster could be back on top within a few years for all I know), while others have continued to trumpet it as being superior (and yes, it has been going on). The Ulster Championship is a great championship, and its winner this year, like every other year, can be rightly proud that they won what is undeniably a very competitive tournament. But do I think it;s high on quality right now? Not really, no. Do I think it's been high on quality at times in the past? Of course it has, never more so than the 90's. Will it be high on quality again? Of course, I don't know when, but it will. There was no offence intended, but the Ulster Championship is as deserving of being questioned as Refereeing decisions, Kerry football, Kilkenny hurling, GAA in my own county, The Munster Football Championship, the structure of the All-Ireland, nothing in GAA can't be debated, and Ulster Football is not exempt! And questioning Ulster should not always be presumed as a bigoted attack (although at times, YES, it is, and it annoys me as much as anyone to see that happening. 'Puke foootball', and all that nonsense).

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 16/07/2014 17:03:12    1620333

I don't know of anyone in the media or otherwise who are saying Ulster is the strongest talent wise. It all depends what you are basing your opinion on being the strongest...

Competitively there is no doubt that Ulster is the strongest and by a country mile. In my memory of the last ten years, you have Dublin on their own in Leinster, Cork and Kerry in Munster and Mayo with a bit of Galway/Sligo and Roscommon competing an odd time.

Gladly Munster hopefully will become a bit more competitive...but that's by no means a certainty.

In the overall context of things Ulster is by far the strongest Province.

Its like saying if Celtic had all the best players in the world that this made the Scotish league the strongest...it doesn't!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 16/07/2014 17:16:33    1620335

Some fair points made I suppose but how do we know that Ulster could not be top of the lot come September The like of Monaghan did not get a chance yet to play the like of Dublin/Kerry/Mayo etc in a championship game so we can't really judge them yet. Donegal on the other hand won a tough All Ireland easy enough just two years ago. Now I think aLot of people think Donegal are not what they were. Fair enough that May be the case but again it may not.
I think Ulster at present are as strong as the other provinces, bar Leinster( because of Dublin) and by that I mean the two teams, Monaghan/Donegal. I think they are as good as the best in Munster/Connaught. Now how far behind Dublin we are , we will soon find out.
Ulster might not be as strong as 1991/2/3/4 or even 02/03/05/08 but are Munster /Connaught as strong as they were around 1998 up to 2007.
I think Leinster did not have a team in the AI final for around ten years. 2001/2011
So over the years as we know new teams arrive on the scene and they could be from any of the four P 's Other teams fade away and it's the same with the provinces. Times they are strong , times they are not.
I'll finish by saying it's up to Monaghan/Donegal this year to put Ulster football back on top Can they do it ??? We'll soon find out.
I have left out Armagh and no offence but I don't think they are ready to challenge for Sam yet

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 16/07/2014 17:40:33    1620349

Last time the best team in Ireland did not win the All Ireland - I would say possibly 2010.

It may well happen again this summer as it is a massive ask to come back through a tough path to win it twice.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 16/07/2014 21:11:40    1620418

The All-Ireland could well be won by an Ulster county. That doesn't necessarily equate to Ulster being on top, why is some even saying that? It's the respective county itself that will be on top. Mayo have had a good side in recent years as have the Dublin Region. I wouldn't use it as a barometer for their province's.

If some of the provincial thumping enthusiasm could be injected into the Railway Cup it could be re-ignited. Maybe it might gain a St. Patrick's Day slot when the club finals are moved.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7856 - 16/07/2014 21:29:52    1620436

Hermit,

You have read Ulster Gaels so wrong. Growing up in the 70's and 80's Kerry were Gods in the North, most of us who played GAA wanted to be Pat Spillane, Jack O'Shea or the Bomber. We stood back and watched masters at the game as everything else went on around us. Then as things eased a bit and teams in the North got a bit stronger and more confident many of our players realised that the Kerry fellas, while good, were mortal and beatable. The inferiority complex was shrugged aside and Tyrone and Armagh started to take Kerry on where it really mattered, in the mind. These teams went out and showed no fear as teams like Cork and Mayo showed that they were always beat by Kerry in the tunnel before the game; they showed fear and Kerry smelt it out. So don't confuse Ulster people not bowing down to Kerry's reputation as lack of respect, it is anything but. Respect should be kept for after the game, awards ceremonies and dinner dances NOT before it.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9703 - 16/07/2014 21:34:22    1620442

Treaty

For whatever reason Ulster is like the mafia of Gaelic Football, insult one you insult the family, so god help you if you start questioning its reputation. You will more than likely be shot down, turned around and sent back with a handful of arguments that had nothing to do with the original topic. I honestly cant say why i would roar as loud at the tv when watching another ulster team play as i would in the stands watching donegal, its just a tight knit province.

In my opinion Kerry are the best footballing county and have proven this through the years. Recently a mass of Ulster teams have claimed wins over them and won all-irelands but as you say it was in the last 2 decades. I agree that this year and last year has shown that ulster teams are struggling to get results which does indicate a dip in ulsters credentials. However to say that Ulster does not have an all-ireland contender or quality team is incorrect. In our current decade the only two teams to win all-irelands are dublin and donegal. Munster and Connacht have not got one yet and this may change but it does indicate that they are the provinces without quality. I cannot see anyone except Monaghan or Donegal beating Dublin this year because no other teams are setup quality wise or tactically to challenge them. They have the best defenses in Ireland at the minute and in my opinion better forward lines than any of Kerry Cork or Mayo.

these topics always take a turn when we see the results in the later stages of the competition and it will be clearer as to what state ulster is in then. Until that time its very unpredictable and there could well be twists yet - is an all ulster final possible :)

SamT2012 (Donegal) - Posts: 66 - 16/07/2014 22:04:35    1620461

@SamT2012 - Down didn't win the 2010 All-Ireland final. Shame, all in Kerry were wishing them well despite their impeccable record against us. Down funnily enough have always come across as the most sporting of Ulster counties.
There have never been false claims of the Munster Championship despite there having been two all Munster All-Ireland finals.
After the provincial champions wipeout of the 2010 quarter-finals, I think Monaghan are the only provincial champion failing to make the semi-finals. All the championships are providing a decent champion. History shows some Ulster counties have come through an easier side of the draw in the north. Applying the northern logic, those counties should then have breezed through the All-Ireland series.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7856 - 17/07/2014 08:12:07    1620463

Samt2012
No , an all Ulster final won't happen, as a matter of fact the finalists will probably come from some two provinces except Roscommon or Clare can keep winning.
Roscommon are on the opposite side to Mayo/Galway/Sligo while Clare are on the opposite side to Tipp, Kerryand Cork. The Ulster /Leinster sides are grouped together so only one can make the final.
What about Donegal v Cork. ?????

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 17/07/2014 09:30:13    1620483

Down funnily enough have always come across as the most sporting of Ulster counties

Out of curiosity, on what basis do you make this statement? Rule 21?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/07/2014 11:04:10    1620507

tis an awful state of affairs when a lad has to spend 10 pages apologizing for stating his opinions. Some people just LOVE to be offended!
Take no notice Exile! For what its worth, I agree with you.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 17/07/2014 11:22:21    1620521

Liamwalkinstown I find the tone you used in that last message highly offensive!!

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 17/07/2014 11:35:59    1620534

No better man too Naysayer!!!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 17/07/2014 12:15:46    1620550

The irony Liam is, that any time a thread about Dublin appears nearly to a man (or woman) ye all circle the wagons taking offence at any comment yet you throw out a statement like yours above. If the cap fits my friend.

By the way, I am offended too and so is my wife!

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/07/2014 12:21:13    1620557

And - on Naysayers comment. I would have read that as tongue in cheek but maybe he/she is offended.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/07/2014 12:25:52    1620563

I think we haven't seen substancial evidence to back up or confirm that Ulster has taken a step backwards.

2011 signalled a new era in Ulster, with the emergence of Donegal, and the overthrowing of the old guard Tyrone.

2012 we had the All Ireland Winner Donegal, but the overall standard was still weak within the province.

2013 we had 4/8 All Ireland Quarter finalists from Ulster, with 3/8 Division 1 teams being from Ulster. Signs were that Ulster was getting stronger.

2014 will close with 4/8 Division 1 teams being from Ulster, with Championship yet to be Concluded.

The 2012 Thread called "The death of Ulster football", was premature. At that stage it was felt that no team from Ulster was near winning an All Ireland. And to be brutally honest, I didn't see any Ulster team apart from Donegal having any hope of challenging Dublin, Cork, Mayo or Kerry.
But since then I really feel Ulster is getting stronger and stronger again. Monaghan have emerged and thrown their hat in the ring, Tyrone have rebuilt, but need further tweaking. Armagh and Derry have upped their stock, and are in a position to move forward again.
Down seem to be letting life pass them by. They have talented players, but just seem to be constantly falling short.
Cavan, Antrim and Fermanagh are decent teams, but clearly are some way off the rest.

The signs for me are that Ulster teams in general are getting stronger again. But It's a roll of the dice every year, like anything can happen in any given knockout game, especially in qualfiers.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 17/07/2014 12:38:45    1620573

Stats don't lie:

In the last 10 years the following is the provincial breakdown of All Ireland Final Appearances:

Munster: 10
Leinster: 6
Connacht: 4
Ulster: 4

Last 5 years:
Munster: 4
Ulster: 2
Connacht: 2
Leinster 2

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 17/07/2014 12:43:56    1620576