Donegal were never thinking they had it tough playing Antrim - they knew it was a no win situation, win easy and people say it was just Antrim, struggle and they would have got criticism - any who thought the game might be close were saying so on the basis that Donegal dont really do big wins and on the basis of not showing their hand.

Anyway back to the draws - yes there is a lot of luck involved and this year the luck has gone with Mayo and Kerry in terms of quarter final opponents - next year it might be Dublin or the Ulster champions who have the favourable quarter final opponents. Same goes for the A and B sections - lopsided Provincial draw will impact on qualifier pot strength but again all down to the luck of the draw.

Finally if we want a look at relative strength of provinces we really need to see the top 4 teams of each province hitting each other to make a better assessment as the teams on the bottom run are not a good measure.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 07/07/2014 09:05:26    1614888

Connaught A
QF: London-Galway, SF: Sligo-Galway, FNL: Mayo-Galway
Connaught B
QF: Leitrim-Roscommon, SF: Roscommon-Mayo

Leinster A
PR: Offaly-Longford Wicklow-Laois, QF: Laois-Dublin Longford-Wexford, SF: Wexford-Dublin
Leinster B
PR: Westmeath-Louth, QF: Carlow-Meath Louth-Kildare, SF: Kildare-Meath, FNL: Meath-Dublin

Munster A
QF: Limerick-Tipperary, SF: Tipperary-Cork, FNL: Cork-Kerry
Munster B
QF: Waterford-Clare, SF: Clare-Kerry

Ulster A
QF: Derry-Donegal Fermanagh-Antrim, SF: Antrim-Donegal
Ulster B
PR: Down-Tyrone, QF: Cavan-Armagh Tyrone-Monaghan, SF: Armagh-Monaghan, FNL: Monaghan-Donegal

There's been a bit of discussion on the A and B groups so I've broken down the provinces into their A and B sections.

Ulster has 1 preliminary round so this side of their draw was paired up on the B side with the Leinster side of the draw with only 1 preliminary round. The Munster and Connaught championships are symmetrical so it was just a matter of selecting an A and B side.

The source of the problem of the B side being loaded with higher league teams is the Ulster championship. Tyrone, Down, Monaghan and Armagh were all in the same section of the Ulster draw. On the other side then there was Donegal and Derry. Ulster's preliminary round of Tyrone v Down was far tougher than the two Leinster preliminaries on the A side of Offaly v Longford and Wicklow v Laois.

Notably - Kerry and Mayo also started on the B side of the draw but by making their finals are now on the A side. Donegal and Dublin on the other-hand started on the A side of the draw but having made their respective provincial finals are now on the B side of the draw.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7926 - 13/07/2014 09:14:08    1618081

Laois, Tipperary, Limerick, Sligo. Three division 3 teams and one division 2 team.
Clare, Armagh, Kildare, Roscommon. Two division 2 teams and two division 3 teams.
To me there seems to be little difference between the last 4 in each section. What was all the whinging about? Some serious hammerings in 1A games this weekend as well, at least the ties in 1B were generally quite close.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 13/07/2014 19:39:24    1618504

legendzxix
County: Kerry
Posts: 3328

1618081
Ulster A
QF: Derry-Donegal Fermanagh-Antrim, SF: Antrim-Donegal
Ulster B
PR: Down-Tyrone, QF: Cavan-Armagh Tyrone-Monaghan, SF: Armagh-Monaghan, FNL: Monaghan-Donegal

First off, an apology if this is a duplicate post - Laptop fell over at the crucial time.
My point here is to thank legend for setting out a degree of detail that clarifies one of the concerns many in Ulster have.
Three provinces have as near to a 50:50 split between A & B as is possible. Ulster does not. Eight championship matches have been apportioned 3 into A, and 5 into B.
Is it not beyond the wit of the GAA to have alternated the 3:2 splits in Connaught & Munster ? Thus allowing a 5:5 split in Leinster to be mirrored by a 4:4 split in Ulster ?
C'mon fellas, it is fixtures not rocket science.
Or is it me ?

Knoxboyo (Monaghan) - Posts: 170 - 13/07/2014 20:59:24    1618551

Ulster with 1 preliminary and Leinster with 3 preliminaries are ways going to both have one extra non-finalist on the other side. The finalists will depend on the year. Munster is always the first final, which is a disadvantage to the winner due to a long gap to quarter-final, thus the Munster finalists will always be side A. The other finalists from side A will be determined by the province paired with Munster for the semi-finals. Unless there's a change, the Ulster final will be on the same day as the Munster hurling final next year, with the Ulster finalists being on the A side.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7926 - 13/07/2014 21:16:28    1618574

Legend

I am not sure if your latest post is meant to address my point - unless you imply that Ulster & Leinster ought to alter their calendars.
Surely the counter to that (if that is the reference you infer) is that a longer timetable is required due to the number of counties in the respective provinces.

Still finding it hard to see how a 3:5 Ulster qualifier split can be justified.

Knoxboyo (Monaghan) - Posts: 170 - 13/07/2014 21:36:29    1618600

It was a reply to you Knoxboyo.

Ulster will always have one extra non-finalist on one side and Leinster one extra non-finalist on the other side. That can't be avoided. The side the finalists of those provinces are in depends if they are on the same side as the Munster finalists or not.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7926 - 13/07/2014 21:54:03    1618626

Hi Legend,

I think we are come at this from very different perspectives - but to begin with, let me reiterate an earlier point. You have set out the detail of the A&B qualifier structure that allows others to draw their own conclusions. That, in itself, does this message board a service and allows discussion to progress. Thank you.

I suspect that this issue boils down to the decisions that build into when provincial finals take place. Whilst I appreciate that we live in an age of TV, who decided that Munster's football final has to be the week before the Hurling Final? And why? Doesn't the AI hurling championship finish before its footballing counterpart?

Ultimately it's about balancing counties with weekends, but provinces with most of the former, have least of the latter... and this A & B thing, frankly, hasn't solved anything.

Knoxboyo (Monaghan) - Posts: 170 - 14/07/2014 08:05:02    1618634

Can teams who've already met meet again in Round 4?.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 14/07/2014 08:51:56    1618649

Teams can't meet again in rounds 3 and 4. Bizarre it doesn't apply to rounds 1 and 2.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7926 - 14/07/2014 09:12:41    1618657

Former poster

No. Going by the 4a fixtures thismorning then they can't.

Jinxie (Meath) - Posts: 6347 - 14/07/2014 09:15:29    1618660

Looking at the draw now surely Donegal/Monaghan if they get through will have a tougher quarter final than either Kerry/Mayo Plus if Armagh wins on Sat night they could well meet Ulster opposition in the QF. Whatever we won't complain and if we get a chance to meet Dublin in Q or semi final that's the challenge we will face
By the way I'd like to know if both Armagh/Kildare both win could Armagh meet Monaghan or could Kildare meet Meath again. ?? Of course if Mon /Meath win their titles then that won't arise.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 14/07/2014 09:27:35    1618670

Last year the tough side of the Qualifier draw was Side B including the likes of Tyrone Armagh Down and Monaghan. Side B were automatically slated to play Leinster and Ulster Finalists and winners.

This year the tough side of the Qualifier draw is Side B including the likes of Tyrone Armagh Down and Donegal. Side B presumably will play Connacht and Munster. But no, per the GAA website Side B will play Connacht and Ulster again.

How odd.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 18/05/2015 16:49:15    1725123

It is all very easily explained tyroneed but I get the feeling you are desperate for evidence that the GAA treats ulster teams badly and I would hate to disappoint you.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 18/05/2015 17:09:17    1725143

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 983

1725143
It is all very easily explained tyroneed but I get the feeling you are desperate for evidence that the GAA treats ulster teams badly and I would hate to disappoint you.

Please do explain as I for one don't have a clue how this farce works and how it is decided who ends up in each group, can't see what is wrong with a draw and a fair chance for all teams.

benched (Tyrone) - Posts: 534 - 18/05/2015 17:38:09    1725166

Last year it was Ulster/Leinster, this year Ulster/Connacht, next year Ulster/Munster. Whether qualifiers from side B will play Ulster/Munster or Connacht/Leinster next year will depend on when each provincial final is played but all of this is set out long before the draw is made. There is no conspiracy theory, one of the results of this arrangement is that no provincial final pairing can be repeated in the All-Ireland final, and as there have been twice as many all-Munster finals as the rest of the provinces combined it is probably Cork and Kerry who should be complaining most.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 18/05/2015 19:17:10    1725204

That is unfair though why is it Ulster every year and the rest once every 3?

Victorious87 (Wicklow) - Posts: 597 - 18/05/2015 20:09:04    1725224

This year its Leinster / Connaught . and side B will play those teams .
So Leinster has got side B of the qualifiers 2 years in a frow. No need to gt the knickers in a twist their lads.
Ulster isnt being picked on.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 18/05/2015 20:43:51    1725237

I thought the whole idea of an 'open' draw was for the draw to be 'open'?

The fact they divide teams into 'side A/B' makes a farce of the qualifier system. I can't get my head around its logic?

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 18/05/2015 21:34:40    1725263

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3712

1725237 This year its Leinster / Connaught . and side B will play those teams .
So Leinster has got side B of the qualifiers 2 years in a row. No need to get the knickers in a twist their lads.
Ulster isnt being picked on.

Or AthCliath you could say that it is Leinster/ Connaught that is being picked on :)

Personally I do not like the Provincial Championships leading to All Ireland competition due to the uneven nature this creates including the more fixed nature of this approach. With the qualifiers there is an opportunity for things to be mixed up a little but no the GAA in their infinite wisdom decide that it is best to organise these a bit as well.

We saw last year that the argument in favour of this approach in terms of scheduling and rest between games was complete BS when Monaghan had to play an All Ireland Quarter Final 7 days after playing extra time in the final round of qualifiers, while each of Armagh, Cork and Galway also had a 7 day break from their final qualifier victories before playing All Ireland Quarter Final.

As such all this idea about fixing the qualifier draw to ensure balance of some sort is nonsense of the highest order.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 19/05/2015 09:15:12    1725290