Damothedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1819

1594199 I don't give a hoot about them being two different codes: if you drag a man down in football your game is over, if you do it in hurling it's not. That cannot be right.

If you drag a man down in table tennis is your game over ? If you drag a man down in Rugby oh no hold on that cant be right ? The one sport divided by two minds thats the GAA .


If you puck the ball over the bar in hurling its a point, same in football. It it goes into the net its three points in hurling, same in football. Same size playing area and goals in both. Both under the umbrella of the GAA. Same president for both.

My argument sounds ridicilous yea? Thats because it is. No different to your one above.

If the black card was introduced for both hurling and football and was implemented correctly, then both sports would be the better for it. Cynicism is part and parcel of both our main GAA games. Lets not penalise one of them and ignore it in the other.

batterburger (Cork) - Posts: 161 - 27/05/2014 15:05:06    1594215

Damothedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1820

1594208 IMO the black card or lack of it is a chance for people to have a go at others they dont like , its a vehicle , they feel theres an opportunity and there not going to let it go , there are some very anti hurling people on here , there are many who see the hurling fraternity as some sort of Etonian All boys club and they never miss a chance to get a dig in .
Hilarious really that you can have two threads running side by side one called " abolish the black card " the other on hurling and those making a case for the introduction of the black to the hurling code , so Oirish is laughable .


I don't know if you are referring to me but I'll take it you're calling me out on being anti-hurling.

For the record I am not anti-hurling. In fact I coach hurling in my local club. I prefer football but that doesn't mean I'm anti-hurling. I've had this same arguement with my mates in the local. We just happen to have a difference of opinion. I don't think of them any less for having that stance. I don't do it to 'have a go' as you suggest. Just because other posters happen to disagree on the introduction of the black card to hurling does not mean they don't like the game nor does it mean they are having a go.

I have seen both sides at close quarters. Most hurling person in my club would burst every football in the parish. However every football person happens to enjoy hurling and reckon there is room for both. You tell me why that is?

I find your post extremely condescending to be honest. You're practically labelling every pro black card in hurling people as clueless country bumpkins.

batterburger (Cork) - Posts: 161 - 27/05/2014 15:38:14    1594240

Most hurling person in my club would burst every football in the parish. However every football person happens to enjoy hurling and reckon there is room for both.

Your true colours are starting to show now. Fair play for disguising your agenda for at least a few posts with that whole black card for hurling thing. You had me fooled at least, I actually thought you were serious. It's nice to know you were just using it to have a pop of hurling.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 27/05/2014 15:47:11    1594250

27/05/2014 15:38:14
batterburger
County: Cork
Posts: 102

1594240
Damothedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1820

1594208 IMO the black card or lack of it is a chance for people to have a go at others they dont like , its a vehicle , they feel theres an opportunity and there not going to let it go , there are some very anti hurling people on here , there are many who see the hurling fraternity as some sort of Etonian All boys club and they never miss a chance to get a dig in .
Hilarious really that you can have two threads running side by side one called " abolish the black card " the other on hurling and those making a case for the introduction of the black to the hurling code , so Oirish is laughable .


I don't know if you are referring to me but I'll take it you're calling me out on being anti-hurling.

For the record I am not anti-hurling. In fact I coach hurling in my local club. I prefer football but that doesn't mean I'm anti-hurling. I've had this same arguement with my mates in the local. We just happen to have a difference of opinion. I don't think of them any less for having that stance. I don't do it to 'have a go' as you suggest. Just because other posters happen to disagree on the introduction of the black card to hurling does not mean they don't like the game nor does it mean they are having a go.

I have seen both sides at close quarters. Most hurling person in my club would burst every football in the parish. However every football person happens to enjoy hurling and reckon there is room for both. You tell me why that is?

I find your post extremely condescending to be honest. You're practically labelling every pro black card in hurling people as clueless country bumpkins.

Firstly not aimed at you a specific but as your only a hundred odd posts in we will let that slide , were you on the site a little longer you'd have the evidence yourself , there have been numerous threads were posters have barely disguised their distain for the small ball , equally that works both ways I never said otherwise , but if you have the time read back on previous threads and you will know what I say carries some weight , you haven't addressed the folly of two threads running concurrently on the black card one looking to abolish the other looking to implement in hurling , if you can not see the irony in it well bumkin it is , but your remark re clueless country bumpkins where did I mention location or geography in my Post ? I didnt fact ? So I can only assume youve seen my county of origin and put two and two together and as Im a dub Well the rest was easy , time to climb down from your pulpit and relax we all express views on here some agreed upon many not so , your entitled to your view as I am mine, Im also entitled to call a crusade every now and then when I see one .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 27/05/2014 15:59:25    1594261

RebelCork
County: Cork
Posts: 685

1594250 Most hurling person in my club would burst every football in the parish. However every football person happens to enjoy hurling and reckon there is room for both.

Your true colours are starting to show now. Fair play for disguising your agenda for at least a few posts with that whole black card for hurling thing. You had me fooled at least, I actually thought you were serious. It's nice to know you were just using it to have a pop of hurling.

You on a wind up or what? What are you talking about?

Hand on my heart that was not my intention. I can do nothing if you choose not to believe that. However I'm happy in the knowledge that in no way was I having a pop at hurling even if you think otherwise.

batterburger (Cork) - Posts: 161 - 27/05/2014 16:06:11    1594268

Most hurling person in my club would burst every football in the parish. However every football person happens to enjoy hurling and reckon there is room for both.

These football people who enjoy hurling mustn't sit on too many county boards around the country who stifle hurling at every opportunity.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 27/05/2014 16:26:15    1594284

26/05/2014 21:18:55
westisthebest
County: Galway
Posts: 144

1593895
Agree entirely. Diving has crept into hurling in a big way in recent years...Kilkenny were accused of various misdeamors during their reign at the top but they could never be accused of diving...

One CC forward has, I believe, a PhD in trapping the tackler's camán when in possession and going to ground whilst pulling the defender down on top of him. If that is not a form of diving, I don't know what is. Was Tipp's last extra time score in the league final directly awarded from a man going to ground, expecting a free out and not playing the ball?

I'm particularly surprised to see a man from your county saying that, because the aforementioned Cill Chainnigh forward (who shares a surname with a prominent 1913 Lockout figure...) got penalized by the ref at the 2012 draw when he tried the trick on one of your own. I was sitting low down in Ardán Uí Chíosóg and got a view superior to the camera's- it was unequivocal simulation.

Not saying the Cats are worse, but it's endemic to all!

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 27/05/2014 16:40:55    1594300

27/05/2014 11:11:40
bricktop
County: Down
Posts: 900
...Enforce the 4 step rule...

This x infinity

an tseabhac (Kerry) - Posts: 441 - 27/05/2014 16:41:51    1594303

bricktop
County: Down
Posts: 900

1594284 Most hurling person in my club would burst every football in the parish. However every football person happens to enjoy hurling and reckon there is room for both.

These football people who enjoy hurling mustn't sit on too many county boards around the country who stifle hurling at every opportunity.


Again I'd like to stress that I'm not that type of person. As I said above I coach hurling. I've gone to training courses in order to coach hurling.

batterburger (Cork) - Posts: 161 - 27/05/2014 16:52:32    1594317

The problem with a lot of our games is the referees. Last weekend was very poor with basic errors. If you can't get sequence of cards right what hope with the likes of diving? Diving, pull downs, drag downs, elbow taps, shirt pulling, the choke tackle these are illegal, these seem to be allowed by certain refs. I could not believe the amount of time steps were called on a player illegal flung to the ground or trapped by 3 guys playing "ring a ring a rosie". Start the clean up with the refs.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 27/05/2014 17:06:04    1594331

I defend referees when then go out and try and referee games by the book however I cannot stand the way Hurling is refereed. Also the attitude of the boys in the studio with the old saying "the ref is doing great he is letting the game flow". In other words he is ignoring the rulebook and making it up as he goes along. Players are responsible for letting the game flow not referees, referees are responsible for implementing the rules, which alas in Hurling is happening less and less.

On the black card in hurling - I cannot see why its shouldn't be there as the black card offenses are not specific to football. However in Football a lot of the cynical fouls were happening in the opposition half to stop the play moving forward, in hurling if frees were given then the likelihood is its a score anyway. The real cynical stuff in hurling happens inside the 20m line.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 27/05/2014 17:08:12    1594335

bricktop

Its not just "football" counties that stifle hurling - a lot of the blame has to be laid at the foot of the big hurling counties. Football counties tend to stay out of the running of hurling and the big counties have run it for years the way it suits them. I can gurantee you it wasn't football that caused the demise of Wexford in hurling so shortly after they won an All Ireland in 96.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 27/05/2014 17:20:51    1594348

This debate as expected has just turned into another Hurling v football debate. The way I see it is football people are frustrated at the implementation of the black card and have turned their focus on cynical play to hurling instead. As someone else said its amazing to see one thread calling for its omission in football and another by the same posters calling for its introduction in hurling.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 27/05/2014 19:42:49    1594427

On the other hand ... If a player is being tugged back or pulled across and the referee thinks's it's all right (it happened a lot last Sunday), then maybe a forward feels he needs to go down to get the free he's entitled to? I's not a Black and White world, but then it's inhabited by a lot of colour-blind people.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 27/05/2014 20:01:11    1594434

witnof
County: Dublin
Posts: 659

1594055
Its the amount of throwing the ball that annoys me more! Hard for any ref to spot as well!

A simple solution to that would be to change the playing rules to (a) allow the ball to be thrown to pass it, or (b)to ban the ball being played with the hand. Either would help the game, but will the GAA do it? No. they only do Stupid.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 27/05/2014 20:10:11    1594437

Midleton. I cant see how allowing a throw would help. Making the pass more difficult would eliminate any dodgy passes and reduce the amount of hand passes aswell. A handpass could be restricted to a palm of the ball when the ball is played from the hurl or other hand but not the same hand.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 27/05/2014 20:27:51    1594446

Well after all the debate here about diving in hurling the general consensus is that diving has crept into the game. Hopefully it is recognised by refs and addressed by them for the remainder of this championship. There is nothing they can do, for now, regarding the Nash style penalty but they can do something about diving. They must also be alert with a regards to over carrying. It's all very fine watching speedy hurlers but over carrying leads to the opponent having to foul when in fact the real offender is the player taken too many steps.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 27/05/2014 21:32:19    1594483

Can we keep the thread on topic folks, I didnt start the thread intending it to be turned into a hurling v football thread as that is an argument for another day.
All I really wanted to do was open the lid on what I believe to be blatant disregard for even the slightest shred of sportsmanship. I hate to think that GAA would go down the route of soccer, where every tackle we are asking "was there any contact"? And I am sure everyone on here would think the same.
Bennybunny, you hit the nail on the head. Nobody wants to see a game without Alan Cadogan or Kilkenny, what we all want to see is fair play, sportsmanship, and a game refereed to a book rather than "let flow" and a blind eye turned to fouling, cynical play and diving.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 27/05/2014 21:38:19    1594489

It's all very fine watching speedy hurlers but over carrying leads to the opponent having to foul when in fact the real offender is the player taken too many steps.

Absolutely correct, allowing a player to take 6, 7 or in some instances even more steps forces an opponent to revert to a pull and haul at them as the ball isn't there to be flicked away as it should be.

Now I've seen referees allow an advantage of sorts where a played getting tugged, but escapes has been allowed to take an extra step or two over the four, in order to let it flow, but there comes a time when it gets silly. Start penalising the first foul and the secondary fouls won't be an issue.
It is indeed the players who make the game flow, not the referee, but it always takes time for players to realise that things they used to get away with will no longer be tolerated, ala the black card in football.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 28/05/2014 11:07:11    1594611

It's funny, cause I always thought hurling was a game of striking the ball, with stick or hand.
Not a game of soloing and carrying the ball in the hand. It's getting more like football every year!

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 28/05/2014 11:23:37    1594617