blacknamber
County: Kerry
Posts: 83

1592398
this redevelopment is badly needed if only from a health and safety point of view. Hope the surrounding area around the marina is also redeveloped as part of this plan. Cost does seem a bit excessive but I think that cant be properly judged until the finished project is there to be seen.
Think the argument that its not needed is pure rubbish - outside of the current games played there this it will serve as a great venue to attract top music acts. Also with both Kerry and Cork regularly involved in the AI Football QFs surely 2 quarter finals could be played in Cork on the Aug weekend - cutting down on travel for long suffering supporters.Also an argument that some hurling/football semis could be played in cork which would represent a huge boost to the local economy. Think people need to realise that every big event/game does not need to be staged in Dublin.

Very good points, and a good place to get perspective.

Cost seeming a bit excessive is a relevant point. What is a bit excessive? I think 70million in 2014 in a second world economy is madness. Judging it after its completion is too late, the thing is built, and will attract the same amount of people as the old stadium did.

Attracting musical acts is not a problem. Bruce Springsteen was there last year, did it not attract a good crowd? Like i said, do up the toilet facilities, and you are good to go.

I couldnt agree more about back door games, or quarter or semi finals being played in cork, but Thurles is a better venue because it is easier for other counties to get to. However, if Cork v Dublin were to be played in cork, or cork v kerry likewise, (or Killarney for that mater), no-one would have issue with it, except for people in HQ who wonder why 120 million was spent in developing croke park in the first place, absolutely the reason why I would be opposed to this project in the first place as a spectacular waste of money. it would attract exactly the same numbers as the current stadium attracts, except that the state and the gaa would be 70million better off..

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2014 15:08:08    1592411

total waste of money.i have attended many games there over the years.usta go over on the boat from the silver springs years ago(a hair raising experience!).the stadium is simply in the wrong place geographically.it was built on a swamp and theres only limited access from the city..one road down to it from the city.the seats are cramped.suitable for 12 yr olds.many a time i seen heavy people having to stand up due to not being able to fit in their seat.munster have two stadiums fit to take 40 plus.killarney and limerick.that should be enough.cork already have a stadium fit to take 15/18k?..its a criminal waste of money.from a commercial point of view most people get out of cork fairly quickly due to frustrations with lack of parking traffic jams etc..

kavvie (Clare) - Posts: 505 - 23/05/2014 15:27:25    1592429

A few new toilets says the Donegal man, sure they're easily pleased in the northwest.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 23/05/2014 15:31:24    1592439

Absolute madness and a total waste of money. This is politics and power at its worst. Thurles Limerick and Kilarney are all superior locations and there are not enough games and events to keep them busy for the year. Why are the government giving money to this project?by all means let the Government give money to the GAA and other Sports but use it better then this. There is absolutely no justification for this renovation except that Cork want to have a big stadium as well.

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 879 - 23/05/2014 15:33:56    1592441

brendtheredhand
County: Tyrone
Posts: 9372

1592439
A few new toilets says the Donegal man, sure they're easily pleased in the northwest.


Yes. To be honest, if there was a big push by the gaa on redevelopment it would be a nationwide development of toilet facilities around the country.

In the last 12 months I was at a few different venues for both the u21 and senior championship competitions, and there were a few places that stood out as being a throwback to the early 80s. Going to the toilet up against a concrete wall is where the money needs to be targeted at.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2014 15:39:20    1592443

left out thurles in the 40k plus stadiums.sorry all tipp people!!

kavvie (Clare) - Posts: 505 - 23/05/2014 15:39:37    1592445

Cork is the largest and most populated county in Munster (and the most populated outside Dublin) and clubgaa from Limerick thinks it shouldn't have a stadium of its own? No doubt some Limerick people would love to do away with the hurling home/away agreement with Cork and force Cork to go to either Limerick or Thurles for their meetings. Politics much? Cork have never had any problem playing any county in their own backyard, but they have to consider their own supporters, too,. and not be expecting them to always travel away.

Donegalman, you obviously didn't sit in the covered stand and felt comfortable during that Cork/Kerry game you mention, unless you were a child at the time.

Give up the begrudgery lads, and stop pretending that your concern for the development of clubs is what is motivating you. You're not fooling anyone.

Midleton (Cork) - Posts: 643 - 23/05/2014 16:50:01    1592501

If it's the 2010 Semi final replay you are on about, it had an attendance of 26,486. And if I'm thinking of the right game that I was at, it was a day that threatened to pour down the whole game. An exposed and underdeveloped stadium like PuC is of course going to draw less of a crowd on a bad day. The year before that the replay had an attendance of 30,270. Maybe being a world cup year, 2010, had an affect. I know personally that a lot of Kerry fans don't travel to PuC, because of the state of the place. 2nd biggest city in the republic deserves a state of the art of stadium. Sure 70million seems a tad excessive but is anyone here qualified to say that that value isn't justified??

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 23/05/2014 16:57:50    1592507

The money could be used much more effectively. its nothing to do with cork or anywhere else for that mater. If the gaa said they were going to redevelop ballybofey to the tune of 20 million, because of safety and parking I would react the exact same way. Likewise clones. The country is full of stadia that are only filled every other year or once a year at the most. I just dont get the continuous and needless waste of money around the country. Yes one side of pairc ui caoimh doesnt have a roof, but neither does most other grounds around the country. The great thing about the stadium is that it is very big, about 45000 capacity and everyone can get a ticket for the big games. Thats the bottom line, that and using toilet facilities that should reflect 2014, rather than building corporate boxes etc for a stadium that is rarely filled up.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2014 17:03:05    1592511

JMK
County: Kerry
Posts: 234

1592507
If it's the 2010 Semi final replay you are on about, it had an attendance of 26,486. And if I'm thinking of the right game that I was at, it was a day that threatened to pour down the whole game. An exposed and underdeveloped stadium like PuC is of course going to draw less of a crowd on a bad day. The year before that the replay had an attendance of 30,270. Maybe being a world cup year, 2010, had an affect. I know personally that a lot of Kerry fans don't travel to PuC, because of the state of the place. 2nd biggest city in the republic deserves a state of the art of stadium. Sure 70million seems a tad excessive but is anyone here qualified to say that that value isn't justified??

So Donegalman's 8,000 was actually 26,000!

Only just a little over 3 times more than he claimed!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/05/2014 17:04:19    1592513

Good man Mes Amis. Keep up the good work the reality is that it was the munster final in 2009, and yes there were about 20000 people at it, just didnt look like it on the day as the stadium was less than half full. It was the day one of the Oseas got sent off, but I will hold my hands up on that one.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2014 17:16:25    1592519

JMK
County: Kerry
Posts: 234

1592507
If it's the 2010 Semi final replay you are on about, it had an attendance of 26,486. And if I'm thinking of the right game that I was at, it was a day that threatened to pour down the whole game. An exposed and underdeveloped stadium like PuC is of course going to draw less of a crowd on a bad day. The year before that the replay had an attendance of 30,270. Maybe being a world cup year, 2010, had an affect. I know personally that a lot of Kerry fans don't travel to PuC, because of the state of the place. 2nd biggest city in the republic deserves a state of the art of stadium. Sure 70million seems a tad excessive but is anyone here qualified to say that that value isn't justified??

Thats exactly the sort of attitude that lead to the collapse of our economy.... you lads dont know what your talking about leave the figures to us and get on with your wee lives. Personally if my county were playing in a provincial final, I would turn up regardless of the venue. Still doesnt mean that the stadia around the country shouldnt have the basics. Now that Sky are on board, we really need to have a look at this rather than create another black hole for money that could be much much better used.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2014 17:24:37    1592521

Donegalman
County: All
Posts: 1262

1592519
Good man Mes Amis. Keep up the good work the reality is that it was the munster final in 2009, and yes there were about 20000 people at it, just didnt look like it on the day as the stadium was less than half full. It was the day one of the Oseas got sent off, but I will hold my hands up on that one.

Cork played Limerick in the Munster Final in 2009 as far as I know.

Cork beat Kerry after a replay in the semi-final in front of about 30,000 according to this:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/football/2009/0613/250456-cork_kerry1/

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 23/05/2014 17:27:37    1592523

They were both semi final games too in an era where Kerry and Cork met in Croke Park later in the year anyways. O'Se sent off?? You thinking of an All Ireland semi final there? Can't think of any O'Se getting sent off against Cork in Munster in recent years. What's the hurling attendance like though you've concentrated on football?

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 23/05/2014 17:28:17    1592524

To be fair, PUC does need redevelopement in a bad way. That said, it seems to be only one stand that's being redeveloped, the currently roofed stand being torn down and rebuilt. Apart from that, I believe the only other changes to the other stand/terraces is that the roof currently over the stand to be redeveloped is being dragged across and put over the other stand, which seems kind of shoddy. The real problem in the uncovered stand is that the seats are way too close together, the redevelopement doesn't seem to be changing that. Correcting that might reduce the capacity by 5,000, but that wouldn't be the end of the world.
They are upgrading the dressing rooms, which was needed. And, as someone who was involved in some scary crushed under the Blackrock end back in the day, fixing the tunneling under the stands is most welcome.

But should all that cost 70 million, and should the taxpayer be stumping up 30 mill of that? I'm not sure. But as arock rightly pointed out, any questions about any kind of construction cost questions in this country usually get batted away with lazy 'job creation, arguments, we have learned nothing.
So, I hope the plans are a bit more expansive than what I've read, especially for the money being spent. But PUC did need an upgrade.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 23/05/2014 17:29:37    1592525

@ Donegalman

And it's over the top phrases like "Thats exactly the sort of attitude that lead to the collapse of our economy" that politicians use all the time. Do you know that Cork haven't done a feasibility study?? You're assuming that no cost analysis has been undertaken at all. The GAA could have looked at the Bruce Springsteen concert last year and thought it would be great to get in more acts like this. 70 million is a lot of money but a redevelopment of that nature will last for years to come and also earn a higher income. Do you know for certain that the 70 million will not be recuperated over the life span of the stadium? I understand you're concern at spending so much money, but you're attacking the whole idea before even knowing the full facts. I'm not sure if I heard correct but I heard that Croke Park has paid itself off very quickly, and I know Croke Park has more frequent and larger events but it's not as if stadium developments never pay themselves off!

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 23/05/2014 17:40:56    1592530

JMK
County: Kerry
Posts: 235

1592524
They were both semi final games too in an era where Kerry and Cork met in Croke Park later in the year anyways. O'Se sent off?? You thinking of an All Ireland semi final there? Can't think of any O'Se getting sent off against Cork in Munster in recent years. What's the hurling attendance like though you've concentrated on football?

It was for a half shoulder/half elbow as far as I could see.

Good point about the hurling, but really, is there not enough stadia around thurles, waterford, cork, limerick, and killarney (not a hurling stronghold I know), point is once again, we have enough excellent capacity stadia, what is this rush to throw good money at something rather than bring every boat in the country up to minimum standard? I am not talking exclusively provincial grounds, there are very many smaller grounds that need somewhere other than a ditch to do you know what.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 23/05/2014 17:41:19    1592532

And the average attendance in PuC for Hurling finals in the last 20 years is just over 39,000 (although not sure how accurate 90's numbers are)

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 23/05/2014 17:47:46    1592535

Donegalman

It's inter-county hurling matches that will be the bread and butter for the stadium. Cork hasn't been getting that many in recent years, maybe the state of the stadium might be a factor. But in the late 90's/early 2000's, Cork was getting a disproportionate amount of Munster hurling games (well done Frank), and the attendances were rarely below 25,000. Most of the ones I was at would have been close to full, especially the Tipp/Clare matches. Attendances have waned a bit since then, but the Munster SHC still gets good crowds. And its up to the GAA to get those crowds up.

And with regard to official attendances, I remember being at a league game between Tipp and Cork in PUC, I think it was 2003. It was a lovely Spring day, and the place was packed. Covered stand was full, uncovered stand was full, and the Blackrock end was full. Town end was closed, but the stadium looked to be around 3/4's full, 25,000 at the least. When an attendance of 12,500 was, everyone just laughed. So official attendance taking still appears to be more of an art than a science in GAA grounds. Maybe these fancy new turnstiles will help...

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 23/05/2014 17:59:29    1592538

Correct me if I'm wrong but the reason Clare and Tipp played so many times in Cork around the 2000 mark was to do with redevelopment at Limerick? There was huge crowds even at the first round games and I have to say the best atmosphere. But, Cork have a home and away agreement with only limerick and Tipp in hurling. It is likely that these teams may not meet for years meaning the only time that PUC would be near full would be once every 2 years for a Munster Football final.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 23/05/2014 18:46:01    1592558