18/04/2014 11:34:36
hill16no1man
ormond its not a court of law I dont need proof
I gave you two glaring examples one only got call up in his thirtys when moved to england
the other the very next day after he signed a contract in england.
the lack of irish managers attending league of ireland matches would also show this You do if making claims like you are(I do at times as well)
Irish managers don't have to attend games in League of Ireland to know/watch players etc. Better off attending games in England if going to physically watch games and then just watch dvds of games played here in LOI
18/04/2014 11:40:09 hill16no1man
first off I stated it was poor the same as the airtricity league!
they dont fund the domestic games though thats the point
what stadium outside of the aviva which they ownly part own is capable of holding any match of a high level?
they had a perfect ground in dalymount park and let it go to ruin.
they have to take over running of it its our national soccer league
what message do you send out if the national soccer body dont publically want anything to do with the national soccer league
you dont need to be a genius to figure out they dont care about the airtricty league
lack of promotion,lack of funding and no serious development strategy for the league are glaring examples Pro12 isn't poor. Not the same as airtricity league in the slightest. Best players play in Pro12. Its a top ranking league in overall scheme unlike LOI.
The FAI does fund domestic league. They back it and if they didn't run it/back it it wouldn't be surviving.
Bricks and morter don't have to be the goals of all sporting organisations.
The FAI took over the national league in 2007 if they supposedly didn't care for the league why would they have done such a thing.


18/04/2014 11:53:53
Westfester
question for ormondbannerman and hill16man
Are you both teachers?what do you think. Look back at our post history do you think we are teachers if we spend a lot of time during the day And post all through the day.
Im a student back in third level and may get into teaching. I haven't a clue what hill is but am fairly confident he isn't a teacher

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/04/2014 12:17:01    1576683

Hill.....

I actually think you are well clued in on most things, but I'm afraid you won't get me on board with your line of thinking here. Having played GAA and Soccer and been involved in coaching etc. in both sports, I can't agree giving the FAI money to develop soccer is a bad thing. The GAA is a well run organisation, and they rely on fantastic volunteers. But does underage soccer not rely on the same thing!?

Like I've worked in coaching capacities for both organisations for free. The issue is not at the elite end, it's at grassroots level. Development grants are given to help build coaching structures underage. I agree that your example of Wes Hoolahan, and yeah it's terrible the national manager doesn't look at the domestic league. But the monies provided from the sports council aren't for the international set up. So saying they shouldn't get money until they get their house in order is like saying no GAA projects should go ahead in counties where county boards are bankrupt!?

Pumping money to develop underage sports is fruitful in so many ways, the GAA have got their fair share of public money over the years as have every other sporting organisation, development grants are awarded on application worthiness, the FAI made a good case for the money I am imagining.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 18/04/2014 13:02:57    1576697

I have no problem with the idea of supporting all sport as the longer we keep kids involved in sport the better for all the community, not just the kids. I think the issue here is one of transparency and accountability. Just look at the FAI's past record, the CEO gets paid more than the head in Spain and somewhere about three times as much as the GAA president. Where did all the money from the highs of the Charlton years go to, the FAI had to be bailed out for their portion of the Aviva. As a professional organisation the FAI has not measured up to anything close to the GAA and trails the IRFU by quite a bit also. Therein lies the problem that the optics of a professional sport with the very amateur grassroots level. We forget how unique the GAA is and that all the money created by the elite players and games go back to the grassroots. Wouldn't it be ideal if more of the money generated at the top level of football went back the the grassroots - if that happened then yes, no government would need to fund the grassroots. Unfortunately thats not what happens and if governments did not step in we would have a lot more kids on the streets.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1805 - 18/04/2014 14:35:59    1576738

Sports Council money is provided under lots of criteria. It's not provided on the basis of how rich or well run organisation is. It's given to promote the development of underage structures in organisations. Note: I've not seen one scent of concert money or revenues from Bumper Championship revenues put into my GAA club. The club fundraises and runs itself without the GAA giving us any money.

The GAA are cash rich, therefore do not need sports council grants!? They apply and receive grants despite having cash based on their application. The FAI done the same. I see no difference between money going to an organisation to develop structures to keep kids involved in sport, no matter what organisation.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 18/04/2014 14:52:45    1576749

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
The provincial rugby deals were deals made for Britain and Ireland as a whole and different examples to GAA with Sky and government got involved with Sky and rugby in the past

I'm not sure I understand. You're saying the rugby situation was different, but the IRFU were called in front of an Oireachteas committee to defend the deal as well?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 18/04/2014 16:02:10    1576774

18/04/2014 14:52:45
JayP
Sports Council money is provided under lots of criteria. It's not provided on the basis of how rich or well run organisation is. It's given to promote the development of underage structures in organisations. Note: I've not seen one scent of concert money or revenues from Bumper Championship revenues put into my GAA club. The club fundraises and runs itself without the GAA giving us any money.

The GAA are cash rich, therefore do not need sports council grants!? They apply and receive grants despite having cash based on their application. The FAI done the same. I see no difference between money going to an organisation to develop structures to keep kids involved in sport, no matter what organisation. JayP I don't believe you for a second when you say your club runs itself without the GAA giving ye any money, ye get something off them ye wouldn't be members of association without receiving something however small it is
18/04/2014 16:02:10
Marlon_JD
I'm not sure I understand. You're saying the rugby situation was different, but the IRFU were called in front of an Oireachteas committee to defend the deal as well? rugby situation was complicated by 2 pay tv companies and 2 deals signed by different parties for European competitions and no IRFU weren't called in front of an Oireachteas committee but have in past for other deals iirc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/04/2014 16:51:08    1576793

ormondbannerman

why would they be best off attending games in england and watching dvds here?
surely be far better off watching players here seen as the games in england are far more accesible on tv then our league.
best players dont play week in week out in the rabo,mostly you get second strings playing
take your own munster last weekend they got mauled with a micky mouse 15!
there only is 3 leagues in rugby rabo, english and french hardly top ranking among them 3 in all honesty.

its barely surviving, going back to when shelbourne were strong the league was flying
shels progressed to the thrid round of qualifying in champions league and where within half an hour of getting there in deportivo.
they made great strides but then after winning the league had to be demoted to division 1 because financial reasons
bohemians went the same direction and cork city and drogheda similiarly along with derry city,finn harps,athlone town and cobh ramblers.
we also seen clubs fold like sporting fingal,mervue united,salthill devon,monaghan united and kildare county in the last few years.
you can hardly say the FAI have done anything to improve the league since they took it over

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 18/04/2014 17:39:45    1576805

JayP

im not saying its a bad thing im questioning the reason they recieve that amount compared to the gaa and the fact that horse racing ireland for example recieve nothing from them.
take the 2.4 million the gaa recieved
that is for gaelic football,hurling,camogie and womens football thats four seperate sporting organisations
so realisticaly per sport 0.6 million each where as rugby gets 2.4 million shared between mens and wmens rugby making it 1.2 million each and soccer gets 2.7 million shared between mens and womens soccer getting 1.35 million each.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 18/04/2014 17:45:23    1576806

Oh I give up on some people.
Regardless of what sport a kid plays it is a great idea to give them grants, now OK it's only 3 organization and all 3 of them are pretty much self sufficient, I'd personally like to see sports like karate etc get a few quid. Minority sports play a important part in kids fitness too.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 18/04/2014 19:23:27    1576830

18/04/2014 17:39:45 hill16no1man
ormondbannerman why would they be best off attending games in england and watching dvds here?
surely be far better off watching players here seen as the games in england are far more accesible on tv then our league.
best players dont play week in week out in the rabo,mostly you get second strings playing
take your own munster last weekend they got mauled with a micky mouse 15!
there only is 3 leagues in rugby rabo, english and french hardly top ranking among them 3 in all honesty.
its barely surviving, going back to when shelbourne were strong the league was flying
shels progressed to the thrid round of qualifying in champions league and where within half an hour of getting there in deportivo.
they made great strides but then after winning the league had to be demoted to division 1 because financial reasons
bohemians went the same direction and cork city and drogheda similiarly along with derry city,finn harps,athlone town and cobh ramblers.
we also seen clubs fold like sporting fingal,mervue united,salthill devon,monaghan united and kildare county in the last few years.
you can hardly say the FAI have done anything to improve the league since they took it over Presume he(such experienced coach etc) see's it much better for his time to be spent watching games in England and he can get FAI staff/scouts/whoever to watch games here
Best players play often enough in pro12 and doesn't seem to affect the irish sides too much. Munster were poor last week but they clearly looked to have taken eye off ball after big games in weeks before.
League isn't barely surviving. Its not as strong as it could but the FAI have kept funds in that otherwise would have left the sport
18/04/2014 17:45:23
hill16no1man
JayP im not saying its a bad thing im questioning the reason they recieve that amount compared to the gaa and the fact that horse racing ireland for example recieve nothing from them.
take the 2.4 million the gaa recieved
that is for gaelic football,hurling,camogie and womens football thats four seperate sporting organisations
so realisticaly per sport 0.6 million each where as rugby gets 2.4 million shared between mens and wmens rugby making it 1.2 million each and soccer gets 2.7 million shared between mens and womens soccer getting 1.35 million each. Horse racing gets huge amount of funding from the betting industry that surrounds the races so why should they get money from government..
18/04/2014 19:23:27
royaldunne
Oh I give up on some people.
Regardless of what sport a kid plays it is a great idea to give them grants, now OK it's only 3 organization and all 3 of them are pretty much self sufficient, I'd personally like to see sports like karate etc get a few quid. Minority sports play a important part in kids fitness too. They do. The minority sports funding was a while back and all sports got their funding then

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/04/2014 20:06:38    1576839

ormond

horse racing ireland does not get huge amount of money from the bookmaker industry at all
the fact is a jockey pays a 4% levy on all their earnings which goes back into racing
while the punter contributes nothing on what they win towards horse racing ireland
a bookmaker can sponsor a race the same as they sponsor any other sport but money made from betting does not go towards
horse racing ireland

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 18/04/2014 20:45:59    1576851

ormond

the debate is not around what effects irish national team in rugby the debate was that the rabo does not feature first 15
leinster played munster recently and neither side resembled their first 15 sides and this was in preparation for the heineken cup!
the league of ireland is barely surviving and clubs have folded since fai took over running it was in a far healthier state in the mid 00tys and yes I know the economy was also a major factor since then but what has the FAI done to improve the league
since it took over. clubs struggle every year to pass the uefa stadium licences

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 18/04/2014 20:54:57    1576859

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
rugby situation was complicated by 2 pay tv companies and 2 deals signed by different parties for European competitions and no IRFU weren't called in front of an Oireachteas committee but have in past for other deals iirc

Not that it matters that much, but I don't believe they were. There was a general hoo-haa with everyone in 2010 about the Green Party's free-to-air plans, but thats a different thing.

As for the funding, any money spent getting kids active and healthy is worthwhile, the need to counter-acts the sedentary nature of modern living for kids has never been more necessary. I just hope the money is spent well, by all organizations, and the funding is used for the benefit of those in disadvantaged areas in particular. My faith in how taxpayer funding is used is at an all time low (we just don't learn...)

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 18/04/2014 21:51:55    1576880

JayP
You are correct in relation to GAA clubs not receiving money from the GAA, the problem here is you are dealing with people who have never being involved with GAA. The only indirect support the GAA give local clubs is part payment towards the wages of GPOs, and its part-payment. The GAA does not give money towards the running or upkeep of any club. Na Fianna one of the biggest gets zilch.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4898 - 19/04/2014 10:24:33    1576908

18/04/2014 20:45:59
hill16no1man
ormond horse racing ireland does not get huge amount of money from the bookmaker industry at all
the fact is a jockey pays a 4% levy on all their earnings which goes back into racing
while the punter contributes nothing on what they win towards horse racing ireland
a bookmaker can sponsor a race the same as they sponsor any other sport but money made from betting does not go towards
horse racing ireland The horse racing industry gets huge income from the tote and funding from on course and off course bookmakers... it says all that on the goracing website.

18/04/2014 20:54:57
hill16no1man
ormond, the debate is not around what effects irish national team in rugby the debate was that the rabo does not feature first 15
leinster played munster recently and neither side resembled their first 15 sides and this was in preparation for the heineken cup!
the league of ireland is barely surviving and clubs have folded since fai took over running it was in a far healthier state in the mid 00tys and yes I know the economy was also a major factor since then but what has the FAI done to improve the league
since it took over. clubs struggle every year to pass the uefa stadium licences When Leinster played Munster the sides totally resembled their first 15. How did they not? Who was missing for each side?
Munster had 2 changes from the team that started the Leinster game to the starting team in Toulouse game and bench had 2 changes. So as good as first strength and full strength
Leinster made 4 changes to starting team and 2 to bench but considering they had so many more to reintergrate etc from 6 nations they were always going to ave more. But that's all proof that the teams that lined out in Leinster v Munster totally resembled their first 15.
Much more clubs had folded in years before the FAI took over and the league has stabilised in many areas since the FAI takeover.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/04/2014 13:45:21    1576947

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 7105

Much more clubs had folded in years before the FAI took over and the league has stabilised in many areas since the FAI takeover.

Talking out your hat there ormo.

Stick to the egg chasing methinks. 4 clubs went under FAI watch within their first 7 years over the league! Hardly stabilising at all man!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 19/04/2014 14:47:16    1576964

ormond

the tote yes which in turn takes in only a small percentage of income out of the overall amount placed on any given race
considering the small crowds that do be attending race meetings and the fact they have to compete with on course bookies for people actualy there,then consider the much bigger percentage of people who are not at the course,they dont place money with the tote they do so through bookies and exchanges. for the amount of money made on a raceonly a tiny percentage goes towards racing.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 19/04/2014 14:54:55    1576968

ormond

the league has gone down hill since they took it over
they continue to get big grants but do nothing to improve the grounds who year in year out struggle to get a licence from uefa.
attendances , promotion of the games are no better at all and like mesmais said in 7 years they have seen these clubs fold hardly
fills you with confidence for the future. the FAI continue to only concentrate on the national team which is the real shame

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 19/04/2014 14:59:09    1576969

19/04/2014 14:47:16
MesAmis
Talking out your hat there ormo.
Stick to the egg chasing methinks. 4 clubs went under FAI watch within their first 7 years over the league! Hardly stabilising at all man! thought you were better than that level of trolling mes.
Who the fuck is ormo?
No sport as egg chasing. thought you better than that you don't ever see me calling gaelic bogball etc

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 19/04/2014 15:13:40    1576981

It's mad Hill.

Ormo thinks that having four clubs fold (well Mons didn't quite fold but got out before they did) in seven years equals stability!

You can only laugh really. All his supposed education and yet can think something stupid like that!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 19/04/2014 15:53:50    1576994