And again we have posters measuring Ulster football on the basis of Cavan. Last week it was on the basis of Antrim. I also noticed on another thread that the predictions for the Kildare v Down game were split geographically with Ulster posters tipping Down, the rest tipping Kildare. It really is Ulster against the rest - at least until the Dubs get involved:)

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 13/07/2014 10:16:19    1618106

royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 6056

1618072
Ulster football is not what some proclaim it to be. Many have_:sneared at the other provinces saying if only this that or the other. It would appear that when it matters in championship ulster is finding it very hard to compete with the teams that play football. Its fair to say that tipp, Roscommon, Kildare etc would have had a fair shout at winning a provincial title if they were in ulster. Blankets, diving, play acting or whatever is a thing of the past. Football_ has thankfully moved on its now about outscoring opponent again. Ulster teams like Cavan need to embrace that or it will be a long time before any ulster county gets near a all ire again.

Rarely have I read so much drivel in one post!!
Nobody "sneered" at other provinces, the only point that was ever made was that the Ulster Championship had more contenders & was more competitive than any other.
The Ulster teams that are now out of the running are, with the exception of Derry, the weakest in the province. I don't think anyone was expecting fireworks from any of them.
You can't equate "blanket" defence with diving & playacting. One is a highly disciplined way of playing the game the other is cheating & by no means confined to Ulster teams.
Football was always about outscoring the other team or have I missed something? Maybe that is part of Meath's problem, not realising that you have to outscore your opponent to win!!
As for embracing open flowing football, that again is rubbish. Each county will take a look at their resources, & adopt the style of play that suits them best. For Dublin it is fast open attacking football with no worries about defending. For Donegal it is tight defence coupled with economy up front. Other counties will have their own style, Cork's take on open football didn't do them much good.
As for your forecasts of doom about the future of Ulster football, they have about as much value as all your forecasts for Meath getting to Div 1, worthless.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 13/07/2014 10:22:11    1618108

Royal Dunn
Now let's face it Cavan were down the pecking order in Ulster and of the other teams from Ulster that are out of the championship only Derry would be considered a shock. I agree. That Cavan need to tweak the system and change a little bit. But it's early days for them and they have a lot of young talent.
As regards to your view of Ulster football and Blankets, diving etckeep a close eye on the rest of the season and you will see plenty of fouling and what not from other counties.
As regards an Ulster county not getting near an All Ireland in the future , you should look back at 2010 (Donegal in Crossmaglen) and look at DGL'sresults over the next few years.

One last thing ::::I want to let you into a secret,,, up here in Ulster we are keeping the best for the last.
And if things work out in the draw with Meath on the same side of the Ulster teams , you might see first hand how good or bad Ulster football is

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 13/07/2014 10:28:21    1618110

Royaldunne , I have just read your post and laughed my head off . Cavan have a rigid system that teams have rumbled. They need to change. Tipperary , Kildare or Meath would have no chance in Ulster . The weakest teams in Ulster both went down fighting away from home . Antrim were very hard done by in Limerick and Fermanagh were beaten by a point by Laois in Portlaoise. Laois are one of the top four in Leinster. Meath have played Monaghan 3 times in the last two seasons and have been slaughtered by a combined total of 27 points. Dublin , Mayo and Kerry are ahead of the rest. Next come Tyrone, Monaghan ,Donegal and Cork. The rest are a fair bit behind that .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/07/2014 11:12:24    1618139

While Cavan were woeful yesterday, there was something in the game which completely dispels the notion that Ulster teams are the only ones using the blanket defence.

At one point - and I took a photo! - EVERY Roscommon player was back in their own half of the field.

To suggest that the game has evolved into a more open game of one team outscoring the other is nonsense. Take Cavan v Armagh 2013 vs. 2014 as clear evidence that a solid defence is the must-have platform upon which to work.
Donegal did it in 2011, it looked dire, but in 2012 they evolved and added the fast-paced, direct counter attacking game and won Sam at a canter. Cavan haven't evolved and have actually gone backwards at a staggering rate. I don't think it would take a huge amount to get back on track but certainly some new ideas are required.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 13/07/2014 12:03:33    1618158

Malonemagic
County: Laois
Posts: 282

1618050
Cavan scored fourteen points in championship this year. Is that a record low since back door came in

I know we are dire but try to be accurate.

i think we scored 29 points.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 13/07/2014 12:29:27    1618170

cavanman47
County: Cavan
Posts: 912

1618158
While Cavan were woeful yesterday, there was something in the game which completely dispels the notion that Ulster teams are the only ones using the blanket defence.

At one point - and I took a photo! - EVERY Roscommon player was back in their own half of the field.

To suggest that the game has evolved into a more open game of one team outscoring the other is nonsense. Take Cavan v Armagh 2013 vs. 2014 as clear evidence that a solid defence is the must-have platform upon which to work.
Donegal did it in 2011, it looked dire, but in 2012 they evolved and added the fast-paced, direct counter attacking game and won Sam at a canter. Cavan haven't evolved and have actually gone backwards at a staggering rate. I don't think it would take a huge amount to get back on track but certainly some new ideas are required.

Do you think It's time for Terry Hyland to step aside, and let a new man enter the fray?

I didn't see that game last night, but clearly judging by the score it was a comprehensive victory for Roscommon.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 13/07/2014 12:36:15    1618172

GaryMc82

Yes, I think he should go.

I think he would be walking out with his head held high - any manager that has left us in the last 15 years has left Cavan football in a worse state then when he took over. That certainly would not be the case with Terry Hyland who has done a good job. It's simply time for a fresh approach.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 13/07/2014 12:42:27    1618177

cavanman47
County: Cavan
Posts: 914

1618177
GaryMc82

Yes, I think he should go.

I think he would be walking out with his head held high - any manager that has left us in the last 15 years has left Cavan football in a worse state then when he took over. That certainly would not be the case with Terry Hyland who has done a good job. It's simply time for a fresh approach.

I said after the Kerry game, that Cavan would probably need a new manager to bring them on that bit further.
Like I have no dislike to Terry Hyland, just sometimes it takes that fresh voice to push belief of players to new levels.

Cavan's undeage coaches are a credit to their county, and Indeed have earned respect throughout the province. I'm sure options will not be a problem if a new manager is needed.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 13/07/2014 12:55:33    1618180

Cavan's U-21 teams play the exact same system a their seniors. Would it be a good option to retain Terry Hyland whilst completely refreshing his backroom and coaching staff ?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/07/2014 13:12:55    1618191

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1196

I said after the Kerry game, that Cavan would probably need a new manager to bring them on that bit further.
Like I have no dislike to Terry Hyland, just sometimes it takes that fresh voice to push belief of players to new levels.

Cavan's undeage coaches are a credit to their county, and Indeed have earned respect throughout the province. I'm sure options will not be a problem if a new manager is needed.

Well he carried on into this year, reached the McKenna cup final and gained Promotion from Division 3 winning 7 from 7. So up until the 2nd half of the league final, all was rosy.

Terry himself came through the ranks from club coach to intercounty underage (won the first of the 4 Ulster titles) and yes, plenty more are doing stellar work, most notably current u21 manager Peter Reilly.
The trouble with giving one of these guys the job tho is that they play the same system as the senior team and would only really be carrying on from where we are - as of yet, nobody has shown that they can evolve a team's style of play to get the balance right.
I would look outside the county for a successor - no names spring to mind immediately, but (and yes, its asking for a bit much) someone in the Jimmy McGuinness mould is needed. A motivator who can make a player feel 10 feet tall and get the best out of every player. Jimmy seems to be one of a kind in that field tho.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 13/07/2014 13:15:54    1618195

Naysayer

And again we have posters measuring Ulster football on the basis of Cavan. Last week it was on the basis of Antrim. I also noticed on another thread that the predictions for the Kildare v Down game were split geographically with Ulster posters tipping Down, the rest tipping Kildare. It really is Ulster against the rest - at least until the Dubs get involved:)

I think the Ulster posters were way off the mark tipping Down. I can never understand why all the Ulster teams support each other like this. It's lucky for Down that they're not in a province like Leinster where this Kildare team that hammered them have reached 1 Leinster final in 10 years and were bet after 40 minutes when Meath stopped playing and starting preparing for Dublin

Maestro (Meath) - Posts: 569 - 13/07/2014 15:47:56    1618281

Maestro,

You never know what any individual game is going to turn up, witness Tyrone V Armagh, but I would personally have favoured Down today purely because they have a good record in Newry & because Kildare looked poor against Meath.
They are both teams who would hope to be challenging for promotion next year & so it would be hard to pick between them.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 13/07/2014 16:46:39    1618339

Any bookies have odds of Peter Canavan being the next manager ?

square_ball_69 (Westmeath) - Posts: 826 - 13/07/2014 17:02:43    1618363

Ulster counties have allways supported each other and allways will

ulster40 (USA) - Posts: 79 - 13/07/2014 17:11:00    1618369

Square_ball


When he took over Cavan Gaels it was widely thought that he was being lined up for the county team.

I don't want to see him next or near it but he will be one of the favourites no doubt.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 13/07/2014 19:08:48    1618482

Blueskies that post is an excellent summation of the problem with Cavan football - there seems to be a complete lack of footballers coming through, instead relying on a tactical system. It is a strange phenomenon that some counties supporters these days seem to idolise their manager more than any player, while the most successful counties like Kerry prefer seeing a James O'Donoghue develop rather than relying mostly on tactics. And while you can win underage titles and maybe even a senior All-Ireland if you are lucky that way, for long-term success you have to have footballers. The bad news is that to produce these players you need to put in a lot of work at underage like Kerry, Dublin, Mayo, Roscommon etc.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 13/07/2014 19:17:48    1618488

Maestro
County: Meath
Posts: 309



I think the Ulster posters were way off the mark tipping Down. I can never understand why all the Ulster teams support each other like this. It's lucky for Down that they're not in a province like Leinster where this Kildare team that hammered them have reached 1 Leinster final in 10 years and were bet after 40 minutes when Meath stopped playing and starting preparing for Dublin

And it's lucky for Meath hat they are in Leinster and not in Ulster where teams like Monaghan play. Given that the last three competitive games have seen Monaghan slaughter Meath by a cumulative score of 29 points no Meath man can afford to laugh at Ulster teams. Who knocked Meath out last year ? Oh yea Tyrone. Let's recap on those three games between Meath and Monaghan shall we ? Last season Div 3 Monaghan 1-18 Meath 2-03, last seasons Div 3 Final Monaghan 2-16 Meath 3-08. This year Div 2 Monaghan 0-20 Meath 0-08. That's a cumulative score of Monaghan 3-54 Meath 5-19. Enough said. Oh and by the way Down were in an All-Ireland Final 4 years ago where they lost by a point. Meath's last All Ireland final appearance was in 2001 where Galway dismantled them 0-17 to 0-08. And I also have very painful memories of what Tyrone did to my own county this year. Before you laugh at Down look at your own county first.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/07/2014 19:38:12    1618502

Maestro
County: Meath
Posts: 309



I think the Ulster posters were way off the mark tipping Down. I can never understand why all the Ulster teams support each other like this. It's lucky for Down that they're not in a province like Leinster where this Kildare team that hammered them have reached 1 Leinster final in 10 years and were bet after 40 minutes when Meath stopped playing and starting preparing for Dublin

And it's lucky for Meath hat they are in Leinster and not in Ulster where teams like Monaghan play. Given that the last three competitive games have seen Monaghan slaughter Meath by a cumulative score of 29 points no Meath man can afford to laugh at Ulster teams. Who knocked Meath out last year ? Oh yea Tyrone. Let's recap on those three games between Meath and Monaghan shall we ? Last season Div 3 Monaghan 1-18 Meath 2-03, last seasons Div 3 Final Monaghan 2-16 Meath 3-08. This year Div 2 Monaghan 0-20 Meath 0-08. That's a cumulative score of Monaghan 3-54 Meath 5-19. Enough said. Oh and by the way Down were in an All-Ireland Final 4 years ago where they lost by a point. Meath's last All Ireland final appearance was in 2001 where Galway dismantled them 0-17 to 0-08. And I also have very painful memories of what Tyrone did to my own county this year. Before you laugh at Down look at your own county first.

well said horsebox. from reading through a few different posts I am now beginning to think that meath posters on here talk the most rubbish and actually dont know their football with some of the tripe they have came out with. So before embarassing your county even more think about what you write.

goalpost (Armagh) - Posts: 215 - 14/07/2014 18:46:05    1619251

Maestro
County: Meath
Posts: 309


Kildare were bet after 40 minutes when Meath stopped playing and starting preparing for Dublin

I have read some breathtaking bull on HS in my time but this takes the biscuit. Even royal at his most delusional never made a claim like this.

The Dept of Environment should send every available man & woman to Meath because there has to be something in the water, there just has to be!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 14/07/2014 20:07:09    1619314