donegalman you can get good and bad draws in every province, last season for example monaghan and meath had kinder routies to there provincal finals then roscommon.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 14/04/2014 15:37:38    1575032

sorry patk, it's that shaggylegend bloke that's to blame for my narkiness.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 14/04/2014 17:28:57    1575109

That may be true ROS1 but I'd hardly call Mayo's run to the Connaught title the stuff of legend . Did they even break sweat?

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 14/04/2014 19:06:41    1575168

Probably not Hardtimes, but the best Ulster could put up against them didn't cause them to lose much sweat either. London and Donegal lost by the same margin, though at least London were a little closer to them at half time.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 14/04/2014 19:42:46    1575193

It's hard to compare Soma when you're talking one off games (Mayo had a point to prove and Donegal were not Ulster's best last year) . Personally I believe the Tyrone game was a truer reflection of where things stand . Anyway the point of the argument is the competiveness of the provinces . Ulster is very hard to call and to win it you will have been pushed hard . Do not confuse it with saying you need to be the best in the country to win it . If Mayo were in Ulster would they sleep walk themselves to the title? - I believe the answer is no . Would they win it? - you'd be a fool to bet against them . If Roscommon were in Ulster would they be seen as a soft touch? - absolutely not .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 14/04/2014 20:08:56    1575213

Soma uk
You can think what you like about Mayo but at least Ulster counties ,when they get to an All Ireland final tend to win it as has been the case over the last 22/23 years. This year at least 6if not 7 teams can win the Anglo-Celt. You can't say the same about any other province. And by the looks of it Ulster football will remain strong for the foreseeable future. Big possibility Div 1/ Div 2/ and Div3 titles will go to Ulster.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 14/04/2014 20:38:10    1575232

Soma and Ros1 are both entitled to their opinion, and have entered a good debate. Personally, I think that Roscommon beating new york and leitrim to get to a connaught final may be seen by some as a tough route to get to a final, I will leave that up to others to assess.

Mayo hammered a beleaguered donegal team last year, who already had beaten tyrone and down in very very competitive games before falling apart against monaghan. We were off the bridal for a hell of a long time, and Mayo may just as well as have been training for games from august on. People seem to forget that we went 6 days later to carrick and beat laois in the back door, before the game v mayo. That is one of the reasons we got the hammering we did. (would galway, roscommon, etc have done this after losing a connaught final)?

Monaghan beat a fairly rubbish but well organized antrim before playing a massively improving cavan team last year. Their performance in this years championship will vindicate how much this team has come on. You will no doubt find exceptions if you look long enough over the years for teams getting an 'easy' route to the ulster final, but they are very much the exception than the rule.

Tyrone won the all ireland in 2008 but were beaten in the first round of ulster by down, who in turn were beaten by armagh, who beat fermanagh in the final having beaten monaghan, derry (who beat donegal in the first round). The point is that the ulster competition demands the same preparation for ulster teams that any game in august/september in the championship requires. The competition is instnse, crazy and wide open.

Back to the initial point and thread, Cavan are one of 7 teams who could win ulster this year, and have a chance if the cards fall kindly for them ON THE DAY. Because that is the reality of ulster football.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 14/04/2014 20:51:21    1575241

Hardtimes,
Fair enough, that is a reasonable post you had there. I suppose it is just tiresome listening to some people bang on about Ulster being the saviour of the provincial series, the hardest to win, the most intense and passionate etc, it reminds me a lot of how people in England go on about the premier league being the best in the world and change their requirement every year as to what constitutes the best to fit with their story. Every province has its history and pride and all deserve respect. If you manage to win a provincial it should be cherished, no need for anyone to try to exaggerate their success by belittling other provinces, regardless of what province you are from.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 14/04/2014 21:32:09    1575264

soma makes some good points. monaghan beat two teams who finished in the bottom half of divison three last season, there is alot of talk about six or seven teams capable of winning ulster but looking at the facts this seems unlikely, cavan 1 title in 45 years, antrim nearly 60 years since the won one, fermanagh never won, derry and down 16 and 20 years since the won. connacht was not competive last year but this was the first time in a number of years this was the case.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 14/04/2014 21:50:10    1575277

ros1 ....looking at your posts - you love drivel

so looking at historical roll of honor in Ulster indicates who is currently capable of Winning it !!!!!.....magic

...from now on Im going with the view you are completely logical and right....Connacht is hugely competitive apart from 1 year

DD10 (Cavan) - Posts: 130 - 15/04/2014 09:06:43    1575298

Derry, Donegal and Tyrone are only contenders for Ulster in 2014. Monaghan are an outside shot but their motivation motivation won't be as strong as it was last year. People talking of 7 contenders for Ulster would want to take a good hard look at themselves.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 15/04/2014 09:07:09    1575299

That is fair enough, I suppose we would expect roscommon and mayo both to do well in ulster, a lot would depend on the draw though.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 15/04/2014 09:31:54    1575309

Hardtimes

Fair play you seem to have finally gotten the message across that just because a province is hard to win does not make you the top team in Ireland. I've tried to make this point and people seem unwilling to listen. Ulster is definitely the best province in terms of competitiveness, any one from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Down, Monaghan, Cavan and possibly Armagh could win Ulster this year but I will put money on Dublin, Cork and Mayo to win the other three provinces and I don't think I'll lose my bet. Does that automatically mean the Ulster team, will win the All Ireland...of course not, none of them can compete with the Dubs at the moment and it will take a phenomenal performance by any side to beat them in the Championship this year.

As an aside do you know how many Connacht teams have qualified for the All Ireland Quarter Finals (apart from their provinical champions) since 2006? Answer zero! in that time 6 different teams from Ulster and Leinster and 3 from Munster have made it. Things might change this year as Roscommon look to be coming back but the Provinical championships need a major shake up. Maybe Sky TV will instigate changes to the format watch that space.

cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 15/04/2014 10:28:01    1575337

listening to oisin mcconville last night, he reckons ulster is competitive for sure but the standard is not great. You can tell he doesn't fancy cavan or donegal, he thinks Derry will win it.

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 15/04/2014 12:03:18    1575408

15/04/2014 09:07:09
pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 645


Derry, Donegal and Tyrone are only contenders for Ulster in 2014. Monaghan are an outside shot but their motivation motivation won't be as strong as it was last year. People talking of 7 contenders for Ulster would want to take a good hard look at themselves.

Can I ask how exactly do you know what the motivation of the Monaghan team will be like? We've followed up last seasons progress of winning Division 3 and the Ulster title by getting promoted again straight away to Division 1. I assure you this team isn't resting on it's laurels and is looking to push on. I'm not saying we're going to retain Ulster, it's ultra competitive any year and it's a tough side of the draw we're in, but to say the defending champs aren't contenders but "an outside shot" is absurd.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 15/04/2014 12:15:24    1575419

Cavan lads are getting very upset because Ulster is so tough,The Provencal system is totally flawed and lopsided and also with regard to passage to quarters that much is obvious.But it is not changing anytime soon due to tradition and more importantly gate receipts.

Besides Cavan have more of a chance winning Ulster than Munster or Leinster and they would be well behind Mayo in Connaght and at similar level to Roscommon and bit behind Galway. yet with fewer teams though you can get lucky once so it would be easier than Ulster.

salvador (Roscommon) - Posts: 439 - 15/04/2014 12:36:05    1575430

Salvador

That's sensible stuff, although nobody in Cavan is getting upset about competition as that's what makes the Ulster Championship so good to watch. I went to most of Cavan's Championship games last year and most of Dublins and the difference between Cavan's hard fought win over Fermanagh and Dublin's mismatch with Kildare is chalk and cheese.

In the long run I think tradition will get the boot in order to improve the competition as a whole, make more counties competetive and gate receipts won't be an issue.

cavandub (Cavan) - Posts: 67 - 15/04/2014 12:49:39    1575437

derry showed us how good mayo were and in fact tyrone gave mayo a bit of a clipping too this year already??

sammaguire1 (Cavan) - Posts: 279 - 15/04/2014 12:51:47    1575439

lilypad
I wouldn't place too much on Mc Convilles thoughts. Most Armagh pundits have little time for Donegal and were predicting that Mayo would beat us in the AI 2012. He also doesn't seem to have any gra for Tyrone who will be happy enough out of the limelight and plotting their championship campaign as we speak.
Cavan will win a senior in Ulster within the next 5 - 6 years but I don't think this will be their year. Tyrone and Donegal have serious experience in the championship. Monaghan will have wetted their appetite last year and will be back for more. Derry have had a good league campaign playing the top sides in the country. For all those reasons I think Cavan will miss out again this year in Ulster but will be a hard nut to crack in the qualifiers.

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 15/04/2014 13:25:49    1575461

Ok Soma , I can see how some might interpret Ulster as hardest to win and have an issue with it . I suppose hardest to call would be a more accurate statement .
Regarding other posters , you can't have your cake and eat it as well . You rubbish the notion that anyone outside 3 teams can win it but you maintain the overall bar is low? If it's low how can you casually dismiss the chances of division 1 and 2 teams? What hope does that give to Connaught teams? I most certainly hope Roscommon kick on and shake things up a bit over there this year . Galway too . It would be great for the game .
As far as the history buffs are concerned on here , if it's any consolation you will be proved right next July . Only one team will indeed win Ulster this year!

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 15/04/2014 16:28:00    1575578