Former_Poster
County: Meath
Posts: 126

. I would be interested to know who Cavan people think will start midfield.

Personally I think Gearoid is nailed on to start at centrefield. As for who will go alongside him, it is hard to know. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Michael Argue there, and Givney played in the forward line. Mooney I think is more of a half forward, but we have plenty of cover in that line of the field.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 12/04/2014 10:50:58    1574097

Ulster may be competitive but if cavan win the title I dont it bodes well for the province after watching them play in last years championship. They were totally inept and out of their depth when up against kerry last year and have showed no signs that they can do serious damage. Monaghan look a lot better but no where near good enough to cause any major problems outside of their own province.

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 12/04/2014 13:51:28    1574161

Cavan will have learned from that experience against Kery. Very young team coming up against a seasoned Kerry outfit. In the second half while Kerry might have took their foot off the gas, Caavn played some very good football and only for poor shooting it could have been closer. Cavan have Geaorid McKiernan back this year - one of the top midfielders in the Country and a player who is always worth 3/4pts. David Givney will probaly be in attack come championship and thats another scoring threat , with Michael Argue alongside Mckiernan in midfield.

Cavan put it up to Tyrone in the Mckenna Cup final, ultimately losing Killian Brady 5 minutes in the second half cost them. While people will say Tyrone weren't at full strenght neither were Cavan - missing 8 players who are likely to start in the championship

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 12/04/2014 14:13:22    1574170

Kildare put it up to dublin in the obyrne cup final last year and beat them, then look what happened, the mickey mouse tournaments mean nothing in our game, they are not a pointer. kerry were woeful against cavan last year, played a style alien to them for a whole half, looks like they were using cavan to experiment. Is seanie playing for ye this year?

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 12/04/2014 14:32:37    1574174

Whatever you think.

No Seanie isn't playing for Cavan this year - maybe Kildare need him back? Might have saved ye in Divison 1.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 12/04/2014 14:42:30    1574182

The mickey mouse comments are a bit silly to be honest.

What is not mickey mouse is ulster football, and I will prove it by the following stats.

since 2008, (6 seasons), 8 of the 9 ulster teams have been in the ulster final. If cavan make it this year, it will complete the 9 counties.
In the same length of time, Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal, and Monaghan have won the competition.
2 of those teams won the all ireland, Donegal and Tyrone.
In the same length of time, Down, Tyrone and Donegal made the final.

Derry and Cavan are on the brink of a breakthrough.
The competition is healthy and wide open, it is all on the day and there is none of this hedging bets with squads or one eye on the back door.

Compare this to Connaught and Munster. It is a lamentable competition.

Leinster is good to the point that there are 2 other teams who have a meaningful chance of giving the dubs a game for 45 minutes.

It is all on the day in ulster, and there is nothing in it between teams who go all out to win and not to lose looking good.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 12/04/2014 15:11:02    1574195

There is no guarantee that a successful minor or u-21 team will automatically become a successful senior side. It is a sizable step up. Down, for instance, produced All-Ireland winning minor teams in 1999 and 2005, and had a good crop that were within seconds of winning an u21 All-Ireland in 2009, but their impact on Ulster and Ireland in terms of silverware has been negligible. Laois had one of the best minor teams in Ireland during the 1990s, yet this team failed to make an imprint on the senior stage. The other side of the coin is Tyrone, whose team sheet for the 1998 All-Ireland minor victory included Cormac McAnallen, Brian McGuigan, Owen Mulligan, Enda McGinley, Kevin Hughes, Pascal McConnell and Stephen O'Neill. A pretty impressive list of future senior medalists.

While Cavan are certainly improving, I would still put Monaghan, Donegal, Derry, Tyrone and possibly Down ahead of them in Ulster. The province is a minefield. Donegalman is spot on - the Ulster championship is single-handedly keeping the provincial system alive.

Gabriel. (Down) - Posts: 412 - 12/04/2014 15:47:09    1574207

Cavan have won 4 U-21 through proper preparation and playing a system that makes them hard to beat. On these teams there have been some very good individuals but also some average players who probably wont wear a Cavan jersey again.

Monaghan seem to be slightly ahead of Cavan at the moment without having own anything at U-21 level, i honestly don't think it matters it has given lads belief and got them committed but they may never win anything at Senior.

RHF (Cavan) - Posts: 848 - 12/04/2014 15:59:32    1574215

Gabriel

Again I will point out... And this is getting repetitive
Comparing 1x u21 in Down or any county is not the same
Please use 3+ consecutive examples only
Otherwise all comments like this are not relevant and comparisons are meaningless

DD10 (Cavan) - Posts: 130 - 12/04/2014 21:32:28    1574343

DD10. Galway have won 3 all ireland u21s in recent years and their senior team is getting progressively worse at the same time. Bear that in mind. U21 success has no bearing on senior success.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 13/04/2014 10:32:56    1574360

donegalman there has been five out of the six connacht counties in the final since 08, 3 winners the same as ulster, 4winners in the last 15 years again same as ulster. you cannot compare comnnacht to munster. indeed leinster has been the most one sided province in the last 10 years

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 13/04/2014 11:28:37    1574371

pdempsey
County: Mayo
Posts: 639

1574360
DD10. Galway have won 3 all ireland u21s in recent years and their senior team is getting progressively worse at the same time. Bear that in mind. U21 success has no bearing on senior success.

That is not a hard and fast rule either. There is anecdotal evidence to the contrary, just as there are example to prove your assertion. There is precedent for a successful senior team being built on underage success. Tyrone 2000-03. And then there is Galway as you rightly pointed out.

But we're concentrating on Cavan here. Prior to 2013, we were abysmal. The county team was in disarray. No system, no coherent pattern in any of the teams. Chopping and changing managers time and time again. Then comes the first Ulster u21 and minor title in 2011. This is followed up by 3 more provincial titles at u21 level. Now you will find that the vast majority of the senior panel is composed of players coming out of the u21 campaigns of the last 4 years. We're starting from a low base in Div 3, but we're out of it now with the final looming, and div 2 football next year. AI quarter finalists last year.

It is working for us. The transition is evident, unquestionably so. What remains to be seen is how far we can go, but I believe we are by no means near the finished article yet. This time 12 months we will know everything we are speculating on right now.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 13/04/2014 12:20:57    1574378

Very fair post Ned. You are building. You are improving and most important of all you are winning on a consistent basis. It might be Division Three teams but winning breeds confidence no matter who you are beating. You are playing to a game plan that has you organised and makes you difficult to beat. I believe your game plan is not flexible enough and I believe when analysts get to work on it teams will find ways to beat you. The game plan needs more flexibility. I don't believe that an Ulster title is guaranteed. For sure no one will take you lightly but I feel that at your current stage of development you may not have enough. I saw your latest U-21 team in Armagh and I don't believe that there is a whole lot more to come from it that will make a huge difference to you. I would also be very cognisant of what is happening Galway. At the moment they are not competitive at the highest level. The first of your 4 in a row teams was the only one to make an All-Ireland Final. Galway tore them apart. Cork beat you last year. Galway beat Cork. You are definitely making great strides and moving in the right direction but significant improvement is needed and success is not guaranteed.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 13/04/2014 13:16:17    1574387

ROS1
County: Roscommon
Posts: 39

1574371
donegalman there has been five out of the six connacht counties in the final since 08, 3 winners the same as ulster, 4winners in the last 15 years again same as ulster. you cannot compare comnnacht to munster. indeed leinster has been the most one sided province in the last 10 years

That might well be the case, but to qualify for a connaught final sometimes you only have to win one match against very watery opposition. Similarly in Munster, a team can get to a final after only one game. In the case of cork and kerry this is against a division 4 or division 3 team.

In ulster, you have got to play at least 2 very tough games indeed to reach the final. 3 from the preliminary round and that is no joke btw.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 13/04/2014 16:14:17    1574443

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/cavans-spectacular-u21-power-surge-has-ulster-rivals-on-edge-30175994.html

The above is an article on the subject . I think it's a fairly well balanced view on us and a good read .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 13/04/2014 16:27:51    1574458

Any of the recent All-Ireland winners were backboned by successful underage teams. No team has won All-Irelands without first making an impact at minor and u21 in the last 20 years.

The people saying underage has no success on senior are what you might call glass half empty people. The outlook for Cavan would be a lot worse had they won no u21 games in the last 4 years! So success at u21 level is doing more good than it is harm for Cavan, that's for sure.

By the way in my opinion Cavan's strongest u21 team was in 2010. That team included Josh Hayes, Rory Dunne, James McEnroe, David Givney, Declan McKiernan, Martin Reilly, Eugene Keating and Martin Dunne, all of whom were overage the following year. The reason they never won an Ulster was 1. Donegal happened to have a strong u21 team managed by Jim McGuinness, 2. Cavan were still putting in place a good underage plan and 3. A lot of the players I've just mentioned were injured.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 13/04/2014 18:45:52    1574556

So pdempsey..... Galway u21s from last year have failed cause Galway are going badly this year. !!!!!
Madness ...

DD10 (Cavan) - Posts: 130 - 13/04/2014 21:26:58    1574677

My view of who wins Ulster is the result of Derry v Donegal If Derry wins then I can't see them loosing The Ulster championship. I think Do Nepal would be more likely to loose in the Ulster final than Derry. So if Derry beats Donegal then I'm confident they will win this years Ulster I also would not bring back E Bradley ( a sub mabey )
The other side of the draw is that I predict a few shocks. Down to beat Tyrone and in turn beat Monaghan ( would game be in Newry). But the big shock could be Armagh beating Cavan which I think will happen So I would be looking at Derry/Donegal v Down final. I have fancied Derry all along to do well this year and the game against Donegal will be the big one Won that game and they can win Ulster. 2015 could be Cavan's year. But what I noticed over the years that teams doing well in the leauge can have a bad championship and the other way round, teams struggling in the leauge an have a good run in the championship. So I would not rule out Down just yet. 20/1 with P Power is massive odds to win Ulster so if I were a down person that's where my money would go

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 13/04/2014 21:36:01    1574685

patk

"Cavan haven't been in the final since 1997, but there's a very good chance of that changing soon".

really ? my memory must be failing me. i dinstinctly remember being in Clones on ulster final day a few times in the noughties. perhaps i was cheering on Monaghan...no hang on.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 14/04/2014 10:04:28    1574758

4/04/2014 10:04:28
s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 2780

patk

"Cavan haven't been in the final since 1997, but there's a very good chance of that changing soon".

really ? my memory must be failing me. i dinstinctly remember being in Clones on ulster final day a few times in the noughties. perhaps i was cheering on Monaghan...no hang on.

Apologies, 2001 completely slipped my mind when I posted that. No need for the narkiness though, just because I'm from Monaghan doesn't mean you automatically have to have an attitude.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 14/04/2014 10:15:42    1574766