OK some people are really starting to irritate me by suggesting we are even comparable to Donegal of 2011.

We defend MAN-FOR-MAN - NOT blanket defence!

The only time we played a "blanket defence" was v Kerry for 25mins as they have the best forwards in the country.

Our half forwards follow their men back when we don't have possession - if they didn't they would be dropped, as is the case with every intercounty team in the country!

We had the 2nd highest scorer in the championship last year in Martin Dunne and he was only beaten by Cillian O'Connor who scored 6 goals in 2 walkovers. So if we don't have any forwards, we're not doing too bad.

We will not win the All-Ireland this year and are probably around 8-10th in terms of football rankings. With a bit of luck we may win an ulster title, but its an IF rather than a WHEN for the next few years at least.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 11/04/2014 16:47:29    1573896

Cavan are certainly a county on the up,good to see, its got a proud history, but nothing is a matter of time in the Ulster Championship.Any team can genuinely beat any of the others on any given day.Perhaps Fermanagh and Antrim are a little
behind the other 7 teams but Ulster genuinely is a minefield.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 11/04/2014 16:49:23    1573898

Christ there's some ill-informed nonsense talked on this forum - people read a few Brolly columns and suddenly they're an expert on other county teams . I hope this is not a reflection of the views of the majority of those involved within the game but it is worrying the influence these so called football experts seem to wield . Hopefully this new Sky deal will inject a bit of positivity into their football coverage and actually analyse games and teams for what they actually are . The reek of negativity coming from our main stream media regarding our number one sport is depressing at times .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 11/04/2014 17:21:34    1573929

REDANDBLACK30
County: Down
Posts: 399

1573898
Cavan are certainly a county on the up,good to see, its got a proud history, but nothing is a matter of time in the Ulster Championship.Any team can genuinely beat any of the others on any given day.Perhaps Fermanagh and Antrim are a little
behind the other 7 teams but Ulster genuinely is a minefield.

I have to agree with the above post.

About 5 years ago I felt Kildare were sure to win a Leinster title and possibly an All Ireland in the next 5 years. But that just never materialised, and it currently looks further away than ever.

I remember about 5 or 6 years ago thinking Tyrone were going to dominate Ulster football for the next 10 years, as their underage setup was more advanced that everybody else and they were already top dogs in Ulster. But since then, the other teams like Donegal and Monaghan have stepped up and rivalled them out of nowhere.

Currently I see the likes of Derry and even Down getting in on the act, and I really believe now that nothing in football is for certain. Or certainly nothing in Ulster football is for certain.

Cavan will definitely be good enough to seriously challenge for titles, but no guarantee's of actually winning them.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 11/04/2014 17:25:59    1573932

Have predicted the rise of Cavan now for a while although the transition from U21 to Senior will all boil down to good management I feel. They are a tough side to play against at the moment but so were we for years without actually winning anything until we got a decent manager.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1799 - 11/04/2014 17:30:01    1573933

In response to the thread title - No! Nothing like this is only a matter of time . In sport , as in life , all the great things must be earned.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 11/04/2014 17:56:48    1573950

I think there are 6 counties with equal chance of winning ulster this year. Rule out Armagh, Fermanagh and Antrim and there is absolutely nothing in it between the teams. It is all on the day. I would not compare cavan to donegal in 2011. The reason for this is that donegal not only won ulster that year, but the following year as well and from the preliminary round,, not to mention the all ireland. Any team in ulster that can do this does not fake it. So blanket defence or otherwise, I think that cavan could indeed win ulster this year, definitely in the next 5. AS for the all ireland, not much hope yet, but in the next 5 years you never know.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 11/04/2014 19:08:25    1573967

If Cavan have a chance of winning ulster this year then surely Armagh do too. I watched some of their games this year and was very impressed. they were unlucky to be relegated. If they had been playing in div3 they would have won every match (and by a hell of a lot more than we did. So if you rule out Armagh then you must rule out Cavan I'm afraid to say. Cavan scored 22 points against Derry last year so we must have a few forwards. The under-21 championship so far in Ulster has been played in atrocious weather the games against Tyrone and Monaghan especially, you wouldn't put a dog out. I would encourage more shooting from our forwards though. for the Seniors Keating shoots on sight, he usually misses 3 but usually gets 6. same with Dunne. Martin Reilly is a very accurate kicker. also Jack Brady. Gearoid McKeirnan is probably our best point-taker from long range. Givney can also score also Mackey. Michael Argue scored 4 points from play in two of the 4 ulster under-21 championship games, Young Tom Hayes is going to be a great player too. The thing is we have loads of players, we are not just relying on a few good ones. even if our 6 forwards were all injured the other 6 could come in and do just as good a job. Feck it. I think we will win the all-ireland this year.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 11/04/2014 20:13:56    1573993

GallantJohnJoe
County: Cavan
Posts: 118

1573845 No doubt you were at the McKenna Cup final 'Greengrass'?

I was . Started very well and were leading by 4. Tyrone then went through the gears and after that "it was only a matter of time".

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/04/2014 20:20:16    1573994

DD10
County: Cavan
Posts: 78

1573854 getting boring now.....

Goeff...this Cavan U21 team also won Minor Ulster
greengrass....."hammering" ??? ..... you should know the exact definition of this is 4 pts a hammering in Louth terms?


I was at the quarter final v Kerry. The first half was as lamentable a performance as I have seen in a long time from any team. The game was over at half time. Kerry never had to break sweat. I saw Kerry in the semi final and the difference in their performance levels between the quarter final and semi final was huge. On the basis of what I saw an Ulster title is not a matter of time. You are making a certain amount of progress but I don't believe you are guaranteed an Ulster title. Your firepower up front is limited with Eugene Keating being your only consistent threat. For you to really challenge the system needs to change. The likes of Mackey need to operate closer to goal as Martin Dunne does not have the wherewithal to flourish when closely marked. Keating on the other hand is an entirely different matter

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/04/2014 20:29:54    1574000

Greengrass,

Not going to dispute your views on the Kerry game. You are correct. We were poor that day, in fact the first half for Kerry was easy. We scored 2 points in 35 minutes of football against them. And I wouldn't mind but that Kerry team were there for the taking had we of got the tactics right, like we did in the second half. But in fairness to the management they came out and admitted we got the tactics wrong on the day. We move on.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 11/04/2014 21:42:07    1574031

First of all congratulations to Cavan u21's I thought Donegal had it when they went 2 points up with a few minutes left but that is sport again. If I were Cavan people I would not be thinking too much of winning an Ulster or an All Ireland but think about the first round game against Armagh. This to me is going to be a real test of Cavan and I don't think it would do them any good to loose against Armagh.
What we can be sure of is that over the next 4/5 years other teams will also emerge and I can't see any team dominating football like Kerry did 30/40 years ago. Cavan can win Ulster and for me 2015 might be the year. Winning Sam is a different matter and it would suit Cavan to go and win this years u21 All Ireland as it would be a stepping stone. Don't forget they are in one Tough province and I can't see them dominating Ulster like Mayo in Connaught or Dublin in Leinster.
I did not see the Ulster Final on Wed night but the blanket /swarm defence must still be alive and well. I think people who say it is copped on are well off the mark A properly well organised defensive system is really hard to play against

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 11/04/2014 22:00:25    1574046

Out of the top two divisions in the national league only Louth and Westmeath scored less than Cavan. This proves that Cavan rely on a blanket system to win games. They where playing weaker teams during the league and only average 14 points a game willl this win championship matches I have my doubts.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 12/04/2014 08:10:58    1574050

shaggylegend you can only beat whats in front of them.
The blanket defense works and does win provincial championships.

Cavan do need one or 2 forwards but I actually believe theyhave the best midfield pairing in Ireland. there defense is solid and they have great runners with loads of energy.

I eblieve they will win quite a few Ulster in the next decade. Down and Tyrone teams are aging/arent what they use to be (obviously still not bad). Derry could do something this year but I dont see a long temr dominance (hopefully none at all)
At under 21 level anyway it seems to be Cavan head and shoulder ahead of trailing pack led by Donegal. I know its no gaurantee of success but Winning breeds winning.

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 12/04/2014 09:35:05    1574066

I think anybody saying Cavan are too defensive or that they lack forwards is an outsider taking the lazy view point. I have kept an eye on Cavan over the last few years and there's no doubt they have plenty of good forwards. Their defensive approach is down to a strong work ethic and being well prepared. Take someone like Niall McDermott. He's not a name that rolls off the tongue and he's certainly not a flashy player but he's a forward who gives his all and is usually good for a few scores every game. A reliable freetaker too. And that's typical of the kind of forward Cavan have. Saying that, if you want stylish forwards, then look no further than Jack Brady or Mickey Lyng both of whom are vying it out for the number 11 jersey. And like the Lyng/Brady dilemma, Terry Hyland is going to have selection headaches in a lot of positions. Givney, McKiernan, Argue, Mooney and O'Reilly are the midfield options to give just one example. I would be interested to know who Cavan people think will start midfield.

By the way, Cavan used 36 players during the League and won all their games. That's a fine record because it's rare you see any team go through the League with a 100% record. 7 games in 10 weeks is a tough ask. And out of the 36, there were only two u21s. You would expect some of the bigger names off the u21 team like Dara McVitty, Conor Moynagh and Joe Dillon to progress to the senior panel soon enough. So all things considered Cavan will be challenging for Ulsters and All-Irelands sooner rather than later.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 12/04/2014 09:36:51    1574068

Shaggylegend, you're clearly a bitter neighbour! The obvious thing looking at Cavan's Division 3 record is that they won 7 out of 7 games. Why overlook that statistic and try and make an argument out of their scoring record?

Cavan averaged 14 points a game. Last year Monaghan in the same division averaged 16 points a game! So there's a whole 2 points difference there!

By the way Cavan scored 4-89, last year Monaghan scored 10-85. So Monaghan ended up scoring a whole 2 scores more and in fact scored less points. Yet in the end their scoring record was good enough to win the Ulster championship.

If I was you, I wouldn't go making this argument again. Whatever about Cavan not being good enough at senior level, you're not doing very well at arguing the case against them!

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 12/04/2014 09:47:59    1574072

shaggylegend
County: Monaghan
Posts: 1067

1573771 Since the start of 2013 I have seen Cavan play Monaghan in the league, Meath in the league, Armagh,Monaghan and Fermanagh twice in the ulster championship and the qualifier in breffni. I was also present at both under 21 games between Cavan and Monaghan. So I can pass my judgement on what I have seen, Cavan operate with two forwards in Dunne and Keating with everyone else dropping back in the game against Armagh last year Cavan started the game with 9 backs on the field. With Mackey and McDermott dropping back, so by simple maths that means 2 forwards in Dunne and Keating. This theme was similar in the games against Fermanagh and Monaghan in the championship.

A wannabe Cavan man

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2763 - 12/04/2014 10:15:20    1574084

I think if all midfielder are fit and well it has to be Givney and McKeirnan.

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 12/04/2014 10:15:30    1574085

Out of interest,, i think the best way of assessing ulster final winners prospects this year is to look a wee bit at form over the last several years.

Monaghan won last year, at odds of 16/1. to say they came from nowhere would be disingenuous, but they were not the strongest ulster final winners in the competitions history by a long shot.
In 2012, donegal won by a country mile, and beat serious opposition on the way to doing it.
In 2011, donegal won albiet fortunately by a result in the semis v tyrone, a game that we barely stayed in until the 2nd half. We were 11/1 to win ulster at the beginning of the year.
In 2008 to 2010, it was won by the tail end of the great armagh/tyrone dynasty.

So I would say that there is s trend in the last 3 years of a team with large odds winning ulster, and looking at the winners, they dont come out of the clouds either.

To narrow the field further down, I would look at the draw and who would be most unlikely to win it.

Down have a mountain to climb. They finished division 2 with a whimper when there was something to play for. They are away to tyrone in the preliminary round and if that doesnt finish them, monaghan wait for them in the first round.

Tyrone likewise are struggling i feel. They have to meet a monaghan team who will be hell bent on revenge after last years quarter finals. They are a tough nut, but only good for one big game I feel.

Armagh were pitiful this year in division 2. I saw them on the last day of the season v donegal, and they looked like they ran out of ideas and motivation very quickly in the 2nd half. They were battling reglegation, and kind of lay down a bit. I cant see a team relegated to division 3 win ulster this year.

Antrim and Fermanagh are still in the footballing doldrums, and that is the way it is going to be this year too.
That leaves donegal, derry and cavan.

Donegal will be very lucky to get a result in derry this year. It is a game that we will have to peak for, and even then, derry have serious form coming out of a successful campaign in division 1. I think that they will be in the ulster final, it is not going to be easy for them, but i feel that they have much to offer.

Cavan have to beat armagh in the first round, which I think they will do. They will most likely be seriously tested by Tyrone, but if they play monaghan, I fancy them to win. Which leaves an ulster final versus derry or donegal. If cavan get that far, I feel they will be very difficult indeed to stop.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 12/04/2014 10:39:30    1574094

I think some people need to relax for a minute when they're talking about Cavan winning a senior all-ireland in the near future, when it's based on success at u21 level, especially when that has yet to yield an u21 AI. However I realise thats only a few and the vast majority of Cavan people are realistic about their chances, but are rightly optimistic going forward. 4 u21 titles in a row in ulster is a fine achievement, and obviously can only be a huge positive going forward. We seen the progress Cavan made last year and they've carried that through to this year with a very impressive league. They have every reason to be confident of being contenders in Ulster in the coming years, but talk of "only a matter of time" before they win is not accurate.

As others have said, nothing is easy in Ulster, it's so competitve that any team could be beaten on any day. It's very rare that a team comes from nowhere to win Ulster. For so long recently it was dominated by Tyrone and Armagh. Before Donegal made the breakthrough they had won an NFL Div 1 title and made a couple of final appearances in the years previous. We too had been in the final a couple of times and had a stint in Division 1 before we finally got over the line last year. Cavan haven't been in the final since 1997, but there's a very good chance of that changing soon.

All I'm saying is just because they've done great work at underage, it doesn't guarantee senior success, especially in Ulster. Cavan are still a very young team and have years before these u21 players reach their prime. They should be aiming to make progress every year, in both league and championship, and they'll have a good chance of translating that success to senior level.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 12/04/2014 10:41:23    1574095