Ritchie

talking about a team that scraped past mayo by 1 point in a poor final

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How many all-Ireland football finals are classic's??? very few I reckon, finals are for winning not looking pretty.

I seem to remember a lucky cork team beating down by 1pt in a very poor year for football, but who cares you won..

As for your opinion that they scraped past mayo by 1 pt, I don't think they scraped by they were up by 3 in injury time. I seem to remember the thoughts of a few well known pundits who declared that the Dubs were actually 4 or 5 pts the better team.

All this with 13 fit men for the last 15mins

It was plainly obvious who the better team was. You actually make my point for me we won a all-Ireland playing at about 60% in the final. That to me would suggest we have plenty of scope for improvement this year

jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 08/04/2014 12:56:18    1572237

Looks like it may be a very tough route for Mayo to reach 3 finals in a row

No more playing deflated AI Champs on their way to another AI final

Might be just the thing they need

All indications are looking very promising for Cork in 2014

This team is only getting started...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 08/04/2014 13:03:00    1572241

Nothing wrong with beating a team by 1 point in a final, it is hardly a bar reflection on a team. I would be very surprised if kerry just disappeared off the radar. They have a knack of coming good when it counts, should they have beaten dublin last year, they would have most likely found serious form and won the final.. almost from nowhere. They are at a serious advantage of being seeded in munster, one back door game away from a quarter final, and they could find traction with a couple of wins. I wouldnt write them off.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 08/04/2014 13:19:38    1572257

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 1015

Cork look to have that sparkle this year, just something about them at the minute. I wrongly predicted they would be relegated prior to the start of the National league, and boy was I wrong. They look extremely strong at the minute, with plenty of depth. The force is with them I feel.

You & me both Gary. I also wrote them off but they have really impressed me & with Derry are the two sides who have used the league to build some momentum.
Looking forward to the summer!!

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 08/04/2014 13:23:10    1572262

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 2355

Monaghan are certainly contenders but to be regarded as the best team in Ulster they surely have to win the Ulster championship. How else do you judge the best team?

Well they are the latest team to do just that!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 08/04/2014 13:43:49    1572277

Dublin out on their own. Mayo have the best defence in the land so deserve the no 2 spot. Cork maybe then but it seems people getting wildly carried away with a team that drew at home to Tyrone and barely bet a very injury depleted Kildare team.

What happens to Cork when their dual players are down to play twice in the same weekend?

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 08/04/2014 14:11:33    1572296

jacktheDub

i wasnt insinuating dublin werent deserving winners they were. I didnt like the cynical fouling in last five mins but they were still the better team. What im saying is that dublin are very beatable the exact same as Cork , Kerry , donegal ect. There isnt a particularly big gap between the top six teams and the league would indicate that dublin have gone backwards in form . Now i know all dublin people will cite injuries but that is simular for most teams. Spare a thought for kerry who lost the best player in the last 20 years. Cork having to completely rebuild a new team.

I think its a very open championship and the tread is about a three horse race. And im addressing the theme of the tread that in my opinion its certainly not. It is quiet concieveable that the all ireland wont be won by any of the precieved tops three themes. And this is not an attack on Dublin i promise you its not. But here are the facts. Dublins league form has been disappointing and they are not the power house team they were last year and i wouldnt fear playing dublin in next years championship. Cork are the form team and thats great but its the league in march/april. How will a new relatively inexperienced team handle the white heat of battle in august / september its a complete unknown. Mayo are next in line but time and time again the mayo public and neutrals truth be told have thought this is mayos year this is it but they just cant seem to cross that finishing line . Maybe this is their year and i dont think a person would be grudge them in the slightest.

So thats why i think its more than a 3 horse race . Any of the top teams are easily beaten on any given sunday . No attack on dublin or their players they were fine champions but its a new year and reality is any of at least 6 could make a case for lifting sam

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 09/04/2014 11:27:04    1572786

Good post Ritchie.

I fear it will be lost on some of the more myopic posters but well done anyway.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 09/04/2014 11:39:57    1572795

The betting has Dublin at 7/4 before a ball is kicked. Mayo 9/2 and Cork 5/1. Three horse race is being fairly generous.

I also don't understand why you could say Dublin have gone back since last year. Firstly why would they have gone back? Their team is young and as well as the young blood coming through they also have Alan Brogan back.

They have played the league with shadow sides out. Losing in Celtic Park to Derry with only about 5 champo starters out has no revelance to the all-ireland. They lost narrowly to Cork who had a very strong team out.

Paul Flynn, Ger Brennan, Connolly, Dean Rock, Bernard Brogan, Dennis Bastick have played no or very little part in the league.

I simply don't see an argument for thinking anyone but Dublin are favourites. They have lost Kevin O'Brien and Kilkenny but I would not see that as an huge impendient to winning an All ireland.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 09/04/2014 12:25:06    1572830

We'll be seeing 3 of the 4 provincial winners in action in Croke Park on Sunday, whether Derry can complete the series is open to debate as the Ulster championship is the only competitive series. AI race starts in August when the quarter finals are played. Quite agree with ritchie that any team can be beaten on a given day, same in any team sport. At a minimum I'd expect 2 from Cork, Dublin,Mayo to be in semi's. The only teams capable of causing these 3 any serious trouble are in Ulster, any of Derry, Monaghan, Tyrone and Donegal, my money's on Monaghan to go furthest. Kerry have too much ground to make up, same for Galway, Meath and Kildare and anyone else you care to throw in.

moylagh (Meath) - Posts: 484 - 09/04/2014 12:39:10    1572837

I didnt put a few shillings on Kerry to win the all ireland at 10/1 for nothing.
We will be there or thereabouts coming into the final furlong...but to win it out it is too hard to say.

Kerry got out of the league what they needed, to blood some youngsters.
Defensively still weak but still have hopes we can improve that.
Attacking wise we should be alright when we have oor proper starting 6.

We are behind Dublin, Cork and Mayo but I wouldnt be over awed by any of them either

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 09/04/2014 12:41:03    1572839

Realman

Nobody is arguing that Dublin are favourites, they are & rightfully so.

I just think there are more than 3 teams in the hunt. Looking at the bookies as you did they indicate that it is a 6 horse race with 6 teams at 10/1 or less. That even excludes one of the best performing teams in the league Derry.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 09/04/2014 12:41:21    1572840

realman2
County: Kildare
Posts: 85



They have played the league with shadow sides out. Losing in Celtic Park to Derry with only about 5 champo starters out has no revelance to the all-ireland. They lost narrowly to Cork who had a very strong team out.
[/I]

That is true. Dublin played the league and tried lots of new players and to some extent it has been very successful as they reached the league semi-finals and have a great chance of winning it which sets them up very nicely to win the All-Ireland. They can still call on lots of last year's very successful team to come back as well which is very nice for them. I am just wondering though, if they had hammered Derry, beaten Cork and Mayo - would we still be saying that they had only 5 championship players playing? These Division 1 games are the games where players are playing for the championship places. These are the games where we find out most about players (not Leinster quarter finals against lower opposition).

You also said that Cork had a strong team out against Dublin. Have you been talking to Brian Cuthbert? We lost 7 players due to retirement and one to Australia from our championship team last year. We are only finding out what our strongest team is. Cuthbert played 30+ players in the league in an effort to do that. We might, in hindsight, have had a strong team out against Dublin but prior to the game we had no idea how guys like Kevin Crowley, Conor Dorman, Alan Cronin were going to perform given they had never played a game like that before. had we lost, one could easily make the argument we had a weak team playing.

Bunny - the players that have retired or gone to Oz are gone so I don't think you could ever say you had a weak team out because they weren't playing.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 09/04/2014 13:45:47    1572894

Bunny - the players that have retired or gone to Oz are gone so I don't think you could ever say you had a weak team out because they weren't playing.

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 09/04/2014 13:45:51    1572895

You are right realman. But by the same token you can't say that we had a strong team either because given that the 8 players are gone, we don't yet know what our strongest team is. That is why Cuthbert (I assume, unless you have info from him to say otherwise) made 5/6 changes for every game we played. We didn't put out any weak/strong teams. We put teams in an effort to find out what the strongest team is. It is still a work in progress. I counted 14 players that played no championship football for Cork last year that were used in this year's league. We will know more on Sunday. Maybe we'll get such a trimming that we'll have to start over again.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 09/04/2014 16:45:36    1573035

If was crazy that Dublin won it last year for quite a few reason's...

Probably the biggest one for me was that Dublin only played in bursts...

Started poorly in almost every game...

I Dublin can find more consistent performances then with the panel of players available

Dublin should be very close to winning again this year

But we all know how hard it is to do back to backs in this day and age... that's Dublin's biggest obstacle

If we don't win it this year...we will win it in 2015... this panel is going nowhere and there's a number of young replacements just waiting for their chance

Also our U-21's will that bit older and only be committed to the one panel from hence forth

This Dublin team will be around for a long time yet.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 09/04/2014 16:57:14    1573045

In fact... Dublin played quite poorly at times last year

In almost every game they either fell behind, switched off, took bad decisions, players getting roasted in certain positions, certain players under performing... many goal chances wasted through greedy play or simply not finished off due to bad shot selection / lack of composure

But then we'd get these 15-20 minute bursts where it all clicked and we'd score heavily, lads would come from the bench and have a maximum impact

Very odd season... but it was good enough in the end to win a treble

Still though... the only consistent thing about Dublin in 2013 was our inconsistency

It was new team under a new manager playing a new type of football... not surprising then really...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20601 - 09/04/2014 17:22:46    1573067

Fair enough you are right that the Cork team have tried out a lot of players in the league and I was wrong to say they had a strong team out. I still don't think come the summer that Cork will beat Dublin but I take your points.

Surely there's a question mark hanging over Cork with the amount of dual players they have? Is it three or more? What happens when both are needed for the same weekend?

realman2 (Kildare) - Posts: 464 - 09/04/2014 17:59:50    1573081

bennybunny
County: Cork
Posts: 2275

1573035 You are right realman. But by the same token you can't say that we had a strong team either because given that the 8 players are gone, we don't yet know what our strongest team is. That is why Cuthbert (I assume, unless you have info from him to say otherwise) made 5/6 changes for every game we played. We didn't put out any weak/strong teams. We put teams in an effort to find out what the strongest team is. It is still a work in progress. I counted 14 players that played no championship football for Cork last year that were used in this year's league. We will know more on Sunday. Maybe we'll get such a trimming that we'll have to start over again.

Good points bennybunny in a way we were similar last year. what looked like a weakened experimental team at the start of the league kept it up and got momentum which resulted in 6 /7 new guys playing and the majority keeping their places and winning an Ireland . Although funnily enough we used less players in championship than Kerry, Mayo or Tyrone. which surprised me when I read it. A new manager can make some difference if a team gets a bit of momentum early and Cork seem to have that (plus some serious fire power) I hope its a great game on Sunday , our backs will have their hands full and will need to be at their best to compete with ye.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 09/04/2014 19:34:51    1573115