Ach Ulsterman you're beginning to sound like Joe Brolly!

It isnt dividing anyone in the GAA, particularly in West Belfast, the vast majority of GAA members in the area are supportive of redeveloping Casement

The handful of objectors are the local residents and those associated with the social club and we all know the reasons behind it regardless of their moralising and brow beating.
Im afraid I cant have the 'not on my doorstep brigade' and now we have them iro Glassmullin pitch and La Salle too.

As for this white elephant nonsense, as srb has pointed out, how often are any major stadia throughout the world filled to capacity every week.
There are also various social clauses built into the project to ensure local tradesmen will be heavily involved btw.

However, i have one issue with Casement, and that is in belfast as you mentioned on another post the smaller clubs are folding due to financial strain and also lack of numbers, my own club folded as you alluded to about 3 weeks ago. The weak are becoming weaker still while the county board and Ulster Council effectively do nothing as they are more interested in building their legacies, namely Dunsilly and Casement.

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 31/03/2014 15:36:42    1567888

I'm not suggesting that Casement Park will rake in the same cash as Cardiff, of course not. But Wales have say, 5/6 home rugby games per year, how many soccer and how many of those bring much of crowd? (Thought Welsh soccer games have been played at club rounds recently, could be wrong). No, my point is that it is will attract investment an other opportunities off the back of its presence. I understand people from south or west Ulster wanting a more central location, but coming from Belfast, I'm not one for passing up opportunities like this saying 'no thank, sure pump all that cash in elsewhere' - that would be crazy. They say you don't look a gifthorse in the mouth , the local opposition of Casement is doing just that I think.

srb (Antrim) - Posts: 344 - 31/03/2014 15:42:22    1567898

I think bumpernut has hit the nail on the head in regards to the objectors - theyre fooling no-one but themselves and its quite ironic some who have made a living out of the GAA are now complaining.

As regards to the stadium all this nonsense about white elephants, money would be better spent elsewhere whilst possibly with merit is a red herring. The money is for Casement, Casement will be built and the few in Ulster Council who want a legacy for ego reasons will be very happy - the smaller local clubs on the other hand will crash and burn and that for me is the sad part thats not being addressed

Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts: 460 - 31/03/2014 15:52:32    1567912

srb
County: Antrim
Posts: 304

1567898
I'm not suggesting that Casement Park will rake in the same cash as Cardiff, of course not. But Wales have say, 5/6 home rugby games per year, how many soccer and how many of those bring much of crowd? (Thought Welsh soccer games have been played at club rounds recently, could be wrong). No, my point is that it is will attract investment an other opportunities off the back of its presence. I understand people from south or west Ulster wanting a more central location, but coming from Belfast, I'm not one for passing up opportunities like this saying 'no thank, sure pump all that cash in elsewhere' - that would be crazy. They say you don't look a gifthorse in the mouth , the local opposition of Casement is doing just that I think.


I know there are economic benefits to having a Stadium in any town or City.

But I feel the GAA often lose sight of what the original purpose of a Provincial Stadium is.

A Ulster GAA venue with the required facilities to host a wide range of Inter-county and Club amatches, and cater for large crowds when required. This venue will be used to host matches of teams from all 9 counties of Ulster, and for this purpose Belfast is not suitable. Belfast is a large City, and has many great facilities.

However it is too far east for the purpose of having Ulster's main GAA stadium. Most fans know the painful trip to Clones all too well, maybe we should learn from this and be more considerate.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 31/03/2014 16:38:52    1567974

bricktop
County: Down

Dungannon, Ballygawley, you say? Is there public transport to these places? Would you get 30 to 40K people to travel there for a concert? (G Brooks and that Carter fella aside)

Surely we should build the new home of Ulster football to suit the Gaa crowd and let the concerts sort themselves out, no?

I also just want to say, the is an argument here about how much a stadium helps the local economy, I don't know exact numbers or facts but believe me it does have a very positive effect on the local area. The Gaa has kept clones afloat for years. What I don't understand is when people say that building a new stadium will increase jobs. It wont increase jobs, it will move jobs from clones to Belfast, big difference.

obviously being a monaghan man, Id prefer the final to stay in clones. Best atmosphere on game days and its a tradition the majority of gaa men enjoy. But if Ulster is to get a new stadium paid for by government, we would be stupid not to build one. It should be in Tyrone. It just makes so much more sense then Belfast or clones.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 31/03/2014 18:11:51    1568067

Bumper, McDermotts folding was a real surprise; I really didn't know the club was in such dire straits but then again I have been out of the club scene for a few years. This is the only thing I have changed my mind on; I really don't believe the spend is worth it.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 31/03/2014 18:32:18    1568083

Maybe the residents are peeved that they will now miss out on the £3 ladder over their back fence match day bonanza they have been getting for years. Belfast is the place for the stadium for infrastructure and logistical reasons alone. The people who are complaining about it being on the East of the Province - how did you feel when it was in the extreme South of the Province?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 31/03/2014 19:49:39    1568153

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 1186

1568153
Maybe the residents are peeved that they will now miss out on the £3 ladder over their back fence match day bonanza they have been getting for years. Belfast is the place for the stadium for infrastructure and logistical reasons alone. The people who are complaining about it being on the East of the Province - how did you feel when it was in the extreme South of the Province?

I don't like travelling to Clones anymore than Belfast, the roads aren't great and it's a long Journey. But now that we finally have a chance to do something about it, they want to put the Stadium in the extreme east of the Province!!.

It's stupid, the main purpose of this Stadium is to host provincial Gaelic games. Forget all the nonsense about job creation and economic benefits, We need a better Provincial stadium that will represent everybody in the 9 counties of Ulster. After you get the location right, the rest will fall into line.

In fact I suggested last years that equal amounts of soil be brought from all 9 counties of Ulster to make up the pitch. That way every team could claim to play on home soil on match days. Tyrone is the most central county in Ulster, so geographically It would make sense to base a provincial Stadium there.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 31/03/2014 21:21:11    1568243

AA Route Planner
Ballybofey to Dungannon: 1hr 27 mins
Ballybofey to Belfast: 2hr 6 min

Cavan to Dungannon: 1hr 24 mins
Cavan to Belfast: 2hr 1 min

Enniskillen to Dungannon: 1hr 3 mins
Enniskillen to Belfast: 1hr 42 mins

Clones to Dungannon: 59 mins
Clones to Belfast: 1hr 36 mins

Derry to Dungannon: 1hr 27mins
Derry to Belfast: 1hr 34 mins

Newry to Dungannon: 5o mins
Newry to Belfast:51 mins

Armagh to Dungannon: 23 mins
Armagh to Belfast:53 mins

So on the face of it you would think Dungannon the obvious choice with 5 other Ulster County towns/cities being roughly 30-40mins closer to Dungannon than Belfast.

I would urge caution with this though for a number of reasons and not because Dungannon is a one horse town.

When traveling out of Belfast you will get a greater or lesser proportion of your immediate journey on Motorway with at least two lanes of traffic to disperse the crowd relatively quickly. I am sure all of us who have been to Clones know that you could easily lose the 30-40 min advantage before you get a few miles up the road.

Add to this the fact that Belfast has superior public transport links throughout the province and indeed the country and already it is beginning to look like the better choice.

Throw in accommodation, the attraction of shopping, entertainment, restaurants etc for the good ladies who may want to do something other than watch the game or make a weekend of it.

Add to that other events that can be staged and their wider appeal - I know someone has said this is a GAA ground and that should be what is focused on but lets get real here.

And don't forget despite being in Antrim Belfast hosts a big population of people from all the other Counties in Ulster.

So if we are talking purely location then Belfast is an absolute no brainer.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 31/03/2014 21:34:26    1568260

Things hadnt been good with the club for a few years Ulsterman, crippled financially, though i hear its not the only club in dire straits,

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 01/04/2014 10:22:23    1568343

White'n'blue
Surely we should build the new home of Ulster football to suit the Gaa crowd and let the concerts sort themselves out, no?

Is it not the home of Ulster GAA? I know the Ulster Council are football centric but come on now!!

Getting one or two big games in a year won't sustain a stadium like this and it would become a burden on the Ulster council, so you need to look at other revenue streams such as conference facilities, concerts and what not. And this is where Belfast wins hands down location wise over Dungannon or the other roundabout place..

Plus as we've already seen Antrim county board have very competent personnel ready to fill the role of Stadium administrators ;-0

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 01/04/2014 10:27:38    1568346

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 6757

1567121
As an Antrim Gael who originally supported the redevelopment of Casement Park I now believe the proposed £70 million spend should be shelved as it is:
1. A total political and not a sporting decision; the redevelopments of Windsor Park and Ravenhill have played the major decision on Casement Park getting ALL of this money.
2. It is a waste of resources and will be a white elepehant. Casement should have received maybe a £20 million upgrade and North Antrim had a similar hurling facility/ground built with the rest divided on improving other GAA grounds within Ulster. ONE stadium sitting empty most of the year isn't worth a 70 MILLION POUNDS spend.
3. The stadium in it's current proposal is too big for the surrounding area.
4. It is dividing too many Antrim and Ulster GAA people and creating a lot of bad feeling within West Belfast especially the Gaels there. Thoughts?

Just a point on the above thoughts. The Casement redevelopment is being built to serve Ulster GAA, not just Antrim GAA. The government funding was based on building one top class stadium for Ulster GAA. There is no option to split the money in two to build a 20 million pounds stadium at Casement, and another in N. Antrim just to suit Antrim GAA. Why on earth would the other counties want that? Antrim GAA are getting a world class stadium built at their headquarters for free, which will be the envy of the other 8 counties, yet all I hear is complaining. If they really don't want it, the project should be cancelled and Casement park should be left as it is now for Antrim county board and gaels to spend their own money on as they see fit. The project and funding should be moved to a more central location like the Dungannon area as suggested, where people would welcome it with open arms.They certainly wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

johnboy7 (Tyrone) - Posts: 79 - 01/04/2014 10:28:57    1568347

Johnboy7 - any right thinking Antrim Gael would not be so folly to turn their nose up at this opportunity to have a world class stadium available as our home stadium. There are always going to be people against it who have a right to object and any project of this size will have its opposition - no matter if its built in a town, a city or in a field out in the country. However, we have processes in place e.g. Planning Laws (and all that go with them) which look at cases on their own merit and if they have deemed it good to go then those who object have to accept it regardless of their own personal feelings. They can continue to try different avenues which ends up not only delaying the start (as it will be built) but also costs all parties financially.

Personally I cannot wait as it will make ALL Ulster competition matches played in it more available and accessible for me - even though Casement still takes as long for me (just over the hour) as it would for a lot of supporters of other counties.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 01/04/2014 10:48:20    1568359

Johnboy7 - You are bang on that this is an Ulster Stadium rather than an Antrim one and I also agree that Antrim should be sounding more grateful but to be honest with you it is the tiny minority that are making all the noise against the redevelopment of Casement. I understand residents concerns but did they think living beside a county GAA ground that progress was never going to take place regarding the modernisation of the stadium. Yes the thing could probably have been handled better but when have you ever known the GAA to handle anything in a truely competent manner, especially Antrim GAA?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 01/04/2014 10:48:33    1568360

The ship has sailed on the Casement redevelopment. The cost of the design process, planning process etc. is substantial so they are not going to now shelf it for a new site as they would have to endure these costs again and it could possible lead to funding problems.

Casement investment was never a good idea in my opinion and it should have been located in mid-Ulster but the same rules seem to apply in Northern Ireland as they do down here, the funding always goes to the biggest populated areas!! Its just politics!!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1671 - 01/04/2014 10:55:37    1568363

Cavan men would do well to take heed of their midlands neighbours in West Meath and Laois, underage titles mean very little at senior level both Laois and West Meath both have only 1 provincial title apiece despite dominating Leinster between 1994-2004

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 693 - 01/04/2014 11:02:03    1568372

Casement investment was never a good idea in my opinion and it should have been located in mid-Ulster but the same rules seem to apply in Northern Ireland as they do down here, the funding always goes to the biggest populated areas!! Its just politics!!

By the same logic do you think Croke should be replaced by a Stadium in Athlone?

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 01/04/2014 11:30:40    1568389

Naysayer, I understand and agree with you. The point which is lost on some people is that the funding was granted specifically to build top class stadiums for GAA, soccer and rugby after the Maze project unravelled. The money wasn't handed over to the GAA to do whatever they like with, and certainly not for the exclusive needs of Antrim GAA. I am not interested in the politics of it but the opportunity for the Gaels of Ulster to be able to build a state of the art stadium which is being effectively bankrolled by the government is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
I can understand the reasoning for why Casement was selected. It is in the largest population area of Ulster where GAA has been struggling, and it would be a great boost to the promotion of Gaelic games in greater Belfast. I understand that perhaps more grass roots schemes may be of more benefit, but that is not what this money was for. That is another area which needs attention. I can also understand the local residents concerns, but as you say they bought houses beside a county ground where this was always likely to happen. On saying that I think they do deserve to be compensated in some way if possible for any loss of value to their homes. Add in the row about the social club and complaints that it will be "people from the country" who get jobs building the stadium and it makes me wonder if W. Belfast is really deserving of this development. If they do not appreciate what they are getting and if it is such a terrible thing then I'm sure another area will be happy to take it. As I said if this development was moved to a more central location in the country the local people would embrace it and see it as an asset full of opportunity rather than a "white elephant".
I have no doubt most Gaels in Antrim can see what an opportunity they are getting, but it seems to be the dissenting voices which are loudest. I think more people in Belfast should come out in public support of this project, as at the minute it sounds like they don't want it.

johnboy7 (Tyrone) - Posts: 79 - 01/04/2014 11:48:18    1568405

Johnboy7 - the people from West Belfast are some of the warmest people you will find anywhere and they certainly have the best community spirit of any part of the city. However they are also not a bit slow when it comes to things like compensation or mobilizing themselves and I would not be surprised if compensation is one of the key drivers in their objections. This is just my opinion though and I could have read the situation completely wrong.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 01/04/2014 12:00:51    1568412

it has always been about compensation, even the nonsense with the social club is about them getting a new one built somewhere!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 01/04/2014 13:03:01    1568460