. Ah wel, thankfully the dark days seem to be coming to an end and so Tyrone will have little option but to become a braver attacking team or they will be left well behind.

Yeah hopefully we'll become more 'attacking' and score more than a single figure digit in a match - I don't think Tyrone's ever achieved that before.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 05/02/2014 21:22:03    1542034

Basically this post has went from an interesting topic full of diverse opinion, a great thread to start to the usual Northern people are evil and have ruined football. And so starts another season.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 06/02/2014 08:18:57    1542057

Fair play Damo.Soma,come on man,all teams play negatively at times and theres not much said about it and the honest posters know this to be true.We already had this debate over and over during and after last years championship.We even had some posters produce stats on here to show for example, that Sean Cavanagh was the the player fouled in 1 of every 6 fouls against Tyrone so other teams are demonstrably well capable of targeted fouling.Other stats demonstrated that Tyrone had one of the lower fouls committed count.The niggling and pulling and all the rest was there to see in the game play of all the other top teams also.Stop with this nonsense now its a new year and we all want to see good football.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 06/02/2014 08:49:24    1542063

Re: Go-Games - just in case there is some confusion here.

In Dublin (as elsewhere) there is massive leeway given by the GAA rules in the interpretation/adaption of Go-Games at a local level. In Dublin in parallel to Go-Games, there are competitive leagues, results and tables published weekly for ALL ages. Just visit Hill16, the Camogie or Ladies football sites.

There is very much competition, teams are still small sided, 9 or 11 a-side, however all teams are streamed on ability for instance.
I just want to dispel the impression given here that from U8 to 12 in Dublin that GAA sports are nothing more than a carnival. The Go-Game Blitzs follow the Go-Game model albeit with huge modifications, even less so with CCC1 Leagues.

In short, Dublin has evolved/adapted its own unique brand of Go-Games - which works very well at all levels and ages and will soon enough be delivering on the investment.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 06/02/2014 10:45:19    1542108

My contribution here was never meant to be anti-Tyrone Seanie, but in regards to whether it is better to win at all costs or to enjoy the game and try your best to win I thought the Tyrone minors of 2004 were a great example because the win at all costs mentality was so obvious - fair play, entertainment etc apeared to have been set aside in the game planning just to ensure that a cup was won. The fact that a number of the Kerry team have since gone on to win senior all-irelands, while I am not sure if any of the Tyrone lads have (or if many have even played in Croke Park since) suggests that the win at all costs mentality is short-sighted for the players involved, never mind the GAA itself in trying to attract spectators (though obviously there are other factors as well).
The finest single piece of defending I have probably seen in Croke Park was Conor Gormalys block in 2003. To see a referee tell him to go into the forward line 10 years later so he could restart a game just struck me as being a bit disappointing. But like you say it is a new year and lets just enjoy the entertainment and skills that will be on show.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 06/02/2014 10:47:40    1542110

I'm not surprised that many on this thread find the winning mentality of some counties hard to fathom, winning is a very un-Irish trait afterall. This of course manifests itself on the international stage, across a spectrum of sports any time Ireland are involved. We don't seem to have the same attitude towards winning as say the Australians, Americans, to a lesser extent the British and French, there's is derided as cockiness, arrogance, just look at the comments about the Australians on the Ashes thread for instance. Roy Keane, love him or loathe him, was a born winner, one of the few this country has produced, yet he has been demonized and vilified for having "the right stuff", in the countries just mentioned he would have went barely unnoticed. This is why our athletes, sailors, rowers, etc, never quite get over the line when it really counts, our amateur boxers are a perfect example, as soon as they have made the medal rounds, i.e. bronze, they completely switch off, like they have acheieved their aims and can now soak up the adulation and look forward to the open top bus parade.So yes, playing lovely football year in year out is commendable and pleasing on the eye but to paraphrase Roy Keane himself, "show me your medals"!

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 06/02/2014 13:27:22    1542192

I can sort of see what Soma is saying. For the period 2003 - 2008 Tyrone brilliantly combined a defensive game with great attacking periods which brought them success but over the past few years have sometimes put stopping the opposition ahead of their own attacking game and I wouldn't disagree. I think that has cost them in games and they do look a far better, and more threatening, side when they are going forward. However it's horses for courses; there is absolutely nothing wrong with a defensive game and I thought Donegal were fascinating to watch two years ago as they stifled the opposition; it was enthralling to watch teams trying, and failing, to break them down and the rabid, nasty, bitter campaign waged against them was shameful. Without taking the debate away from sport I have been consistent over the years in stating that there is an element in the South that is extremely hostile and xenphobic towards Northern people and the Ulster GAA Iin general and the constant attacks on Tyrone, Armagh and even to Donegal is a manifestation of that partitionist mindset.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9706 - 06/02/2014 14:21:12    1542226

What a bizarre post Brend. If it is medals you are looking for, Michelle Smith has 3 shiny gold ones and a bronze as well. But calling her a winner could end up being even more controversial than suggesting some football counties are fond of giving away an occasional free! Nobody has any real problem with Katie Taylor as far as I am aware, she hasnt done bad for herself on the world stage. And no boxer gets a world or Olympic medal without having whatever it is "the right stuff" might be, sometimes in the gold medal fight they just come up against boxers who are better than them and in boxing it is hard to hide your weaknesses behind fouling and negativity.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 06/02/2014 14:34:53    1542242

I think Brendan might have a point here. take the likes of Eamonn Coughlan, Sean Drey, Sonia O'Sullivan all recognised as the top of their field coming into the olympics yet none of them ever won gold medals. if fact Coughlan and Drey never even won a medal. the likes of Eddie Macken,Paul Darragh and a host of other showjumpers were among the very best in the world yet never won an olympic medal either.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 06/02/2014 15:44:48    1542291

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 6618

1542226
I can sort of see what Soma is saying. For the period 2003 - 2008 Tyrone brilliantly combined a defensive game with great attacking periods which brought them success but over the past few years have sometimes put stopping the opposition ahead of their own attacking game and I wouldn't disagree. I think that has cost them in games and they do look a far better, and more threatening, side when they are going forward. However it's horses for courses; there is absolutely nothing wrong with a defensive game and I thought Donegal were fascinating to watch two years ago as they stifled the opposition; it was enthralling to watch teams trying, and failing, to break them down and the rabid, nasty, bitter campaign waged against them was shameful. Without taking the debate away from sport I have been consistent over the years in stating that there is an element in the South that is extremely hostile and xenphobic towards Northern people and the Ulster GAA Iin general and the constant attacks on Tyrone, Armagh and even to Donegal is a manifestation of that partitionist mindset.

You know what, usually I don't agree with this sort of thing - and I don't in 'real life', but on this board - its a constant, in one way or another. It seem's the same theme is somehow recycled on a monthly basis.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 06/02/2014 19:28:36    1542463

To be fair that is a load of nonsense. I grew up watching and admiring Ulster teams dominate in the early 90's, one of the best games I watched was the Derry/Down game in 1994, and I heard stories often about the Down teams of the 60's and the great Cavan sides. Great admiration remains for the way Down tend to play, and for the great Crossmaglen club team. However the fact remains that for many football people the methods used by Tyrone over the past decade, and Donegal more recently, does not sit well with them for the reasons I have stated in my previous posts. To see it as anything else is ridiculous. Look at the way Kilkenny and their hurling team is described in negative terms sometimes to see it has nothing to do with what part of the island the teams are from.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 06/02/2014 20:22:37    1542492

However the fact remains that for many football people the methods used by Tyrone over the past decade, and Donegal more recently, does not sit well with them for the reasons I have stated in my previous posts. To see it as anything else is ridiculous.

Other posters in this topic don't seem to have the same problem with Tyrone that you have so perhaps you and GetOverTheBar are exaggerating a bit.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 06/02/2014 20:28:48    1542499

The only reason I mentioned Tyrone was because a Tyrone poster suggested they didn't play negative football and I disagreed with that view, citing the 2004 minor game and Conor Gormaly having to be told to go into the opposite half of the pitch by the referee for the throw-in as examples. Interestingly no other poster has said that what the Tyrone minors done to O'Sullivan that day was wrong, but I maintain it was a great example of the winning at all costs mentality going too far, and probably the 'best' example of it I have ever seen on a GAA pitch. I would be interested to know what you thought of it.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 06/02/2014 20:39:59    1542509

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 125

1542509
The only reason I mentioned Tyrone was because a Tyrone poster suggested they didn't play negative football and I disagreed with that view, citing the 2004 minor game and Conor Gormaly having to be told to go into the opposite half of the pitch by the referee for the throw-in as examples. Interestingly no other poster has said that what the Tyrone minors done to O'Sullivan that day was wrong, but I maintain it was a great example of the winning at all costs mentality going too far, and probably the 'best' example of it I have ever seen on a GAA pitch. I would be interested to know what you thought of it.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't disagree that there were negative tactics used at times Soma.I and all Tyrone fans are just sick to the back teeth by this perpetual notion from certain quarters,and yourself now being one source,that Tyrone were the sole perpetrators of such infractions.It was nonsense when it was first said and is now and as I said an honest poster will know and acknowledge this fact.As you pointed out before, and I agree and so did Armaghs Jarlath Burns at the time,that the block by Conor Gormley on Armaghs Stevie Mc Donnell in the 2003 final was one of the best examples of a man on a mission to win at all costs and is a moment any player would be proud of and rightly so.Now compare that heroic moment to Kennellys opening salvo against Cork and tell me which is the more negative.The list of examples of negativity is endless and spans all teams as does the moments of heroics.I prefer to see the heroics in all this as its mostly sore losers who keep whining about the so called negative things.

seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 06/02/2014 21:01:40    1542522

Interestingly no other poster has said that what the Tyrone minors done to O'Sullivan that day was wrong, but I maintain it was a great example of the winning at all costs mentality going too far, and probably the 'best' example of it I have ever seen on a GAA pitch. I would be interested to know what you thought of it.

I can't remember the final personally but I've heard before that he was fouled nearly every time he got on the ball so he was obviously targeted and I'd agree that was very cynical.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 06/02/2014 21:01:55    1542523

Oh and to add to what I just posted (presuming it'll be posted), I'll grant you the Darren O'Sullivan incident I'm not sure why you make sure a big deal out of the referee having to tell Gormley to move. It's a bit defensive but I still don't think it's a big deal and plenty of teams have played with sweepers in the last few years. Maybe Tyrone weren't defensive enough considering Mayo overran us in the second half heh. Tyrone have a few good young forwards so maybe this year we'll be a bit more positive - bear in mind we were hammered in 2011 and 2012 and let in two very dodgy goals against Donegal in the first round of the championship last year so I'm not that surprised Harte shored up the defence after that.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 06/02/2014 21:07:15    1542528

Unfortunately most GAA people at the moment believe in winning and only in winning. Honour, integrity, decency come a distant second to winning in the GAA and having fun doesn't even come into the equation at all anymore.
I believe that this sad, pathetic, win at all costs mentality could eventually lead to a doping problem in the GAA and if/when that happens I wont blame the kids doing it, I ll blame the morons who taught them that its okay to cheat in order to win.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 07/02/2014 09:20:54    1542587

Focusing on winning and winning at ALL costs are two different things.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 07/02/2014 09:46:32    1542603

That is a good post joncarter, and it also shifts the focus away from Tyrone thankfully. It is interesting that it should be a Galway man who talks about integrity and decency, as they have good success at underage and club level but poor at senior. However the seniors have (very occassionally) got involved in win at all costs as well - the video arguing for the introduction of the black card showed Finian Hanley rugby tackle a man to the ground that was every bit as bad as anything we saw last year. What would your views on that have been if it was the difference between Galway winning and losing the game? Everyone else is at it so why shouldnt we? Or would it be more that seeing a defender in a Galway jersey doing that dishonours the greats like Enda Colleran and Tomas Mannion who wore it before him?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 07/02/2014 11:20:19    1542661

joncarter
County: Galway
Posts: 930

1542587 Unfortunately most GAA people at the moment believe in winning and only in winning. Honour, integrity, decency come a distant second to winning in the GAA and having fun doesn't even come into the equation at all anymore.
I believe that this sad, pathetic, win at all costs mentality could eventually lead to a doping problem in the GAA and if/when that happens I wont blame the kids doing it, I ll blame the morons who taught them that its okay to cheat in order to win.

I would say doping is fairly widespread at intercounty gaa level in some form or another, it might not be steroids, but I'm fairly certain stimulants are wipespread as they are easily got, have less of a stigma to them and probably actually are better for our game.

Doping in general is huge, I mean you can hold L.Armstrong up as the bad guy sure, but the Jamaican Athletics people are the absolute worst.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 07/02/2014 11:31:49    1542671