Dessie13
County: Dublin
Posts: 35



I not dismissing Shefflin as a great Hurler. Of course he's a great Hurler I just don't think he's anywhere near being the best Hurler ever.

I think the media blow up everything he does, ordinary enough things are blow up into genius or the best ever.

I guess people judge Hurlers in different ways.

I judge the greatest by how talented & skillfull they are/where & how good they were at their very best.

DJ's very best was/is better than Shefflins very best!!

Anyone that has seen both of them play Club Hurling, would have to agree that DJ was the best.

Some of his displays for Young Irelands were nothing short of Roy of the Rovers stuff.

I remember one day down in Nowlan Park in the KK Club Championship, it was like God had transplanted him there for the day as a gift to everyone who was present.

When I think of DJ the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. He was electric & had the capacity that no one since Ring has had to get a crowd on its feet.

And always remember how selfless he was as a team player. He let a young a Shefflin take over the frees to boost his confidence & make him feel more involved. He could have been selfish and demanded that he be the free taker. What effect would that have on each of their scoring stats??

I don't dispute your viewing of Kilkenny club matches. I really cannot comment on those.

Have you seen Christy Ring play? I have not. His last game was in 1960s-his heyday being the 40s/50s, well before I was born. I imagine very few on here have seen both play in the flesh.

As for the point in bold: are you certain that is the exact version of events? DJ - the great freetaker/hurler that he was - just allowed Henry Shefflin to take frees. Brian Cody had nothing to do with this? It was a case of Brian Cody being at a match one day, KK get a free in, Cody expects DJ to step up, but instead it is some youngfella that was feeling lonely in the dressing room pops up taking it and Cody just shrugged his shoulders and said "ah wasn't that lovely"...now that might be true..I do not know. Something tells me that Brian Cody does what he feels is best for Kilkenny and he picks the best players and the best freetakers (in his eyes - he doesn't get too much wrong given they have won 9 All-Irelands on his watch).

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 27/01/2014 14:48:18    1537326

Dessie I may be wrong by my memory of the 2nd half of that match was Kilkenny brought Shefflin out from full to centre forward and he absolutely single handedly brought Kilkenny back into it.

Carey definitely had more of a hold your breath about him when he got the ball but for me Shefflin is a far more consistent performer and more often than not has delivered on the big day.

But sure lads, it's all about opinions, but for me if I had a transfer market it would be the Ballyhale man all day.

Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 27/01/2014 16:22:24    1537402

Isn't life all about those hold your breath moments and that's what defines greatness.

I don't pay into games to see consistency or hard work, I pay into games to see pieces of magic or genius.

They don't always come but when they do they are worth the wait!

Dessie13 (Dublin) - Posts: 70 - 27/01/2014 16:51:54    1537416

So DJ was the best entertainer, not hurler?

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 27/01/2014 16:54:24    1537418

The great John Doyle
8all ireland medals
11 national league medals

thurlesblues (Tipperary) - Posts: 4475 - 27/01/2014 19:50:37    1537555

Dessie13
County: Dublin
Posts: 36

1537416
Isn't life all about those hold your breath moments and that's what defines greatness.

for me,what you did and what you won define greatness.carey scored great goals etc but shefflin has always been there when kilkenny needed him most.carey didnt deliver in an all-ireland final until 2000.and he broke our hearts more often than i care to remember,but for me shefflin has always delivered for kilkenny when he was fit.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 28/01/2014 11:14:42    1537703

id have to agree, althoigh he had amazing skill, DJ often went missing when kilkenny really needed him (he often produced the goods when needed as well), shefflin wasinvariable at his best when they had their backs to the wall

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 28/01/2014 12:33:10    1537750

DJ Carey for me is the one on the big or small stage a class sublime act.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4897 - 28/01/2014 12:38:19    1537755

Dessie makes some great points about DJ, most of it I would agree with, but Henry's career just shades him in the 'great' department.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 28/01/2014 12:45:19    1537764

A lot of great players down through the decades. I have been watching hurling since the early 1950's and no contest, Ringy by a street. He had it all. Mackey I never saw but my Dad always admired him. Nicky Rackard was also a great, great player as were his brothers and don't forget Jimmy Doyle And Frankie Walsh.
Of the modern brigade, DJ, Eddie Keher, JBM, Ray Cummins, Henry, Deano, Pat Fox, Nicky English and Brian Corcoran are the ones that spring to mind.

AwbegRover (Cork) - Posts: 136 - 28/01/2014 13:10:54    1537783

Forwards will invariably catch the limelight as most journalists haven't the first notion about hurling and like to see who is racking up the scores irrespective if its from frees or not, easy scores where someone else does the hard graft.

DJ and Shefflin are different players, DJ had electric pace to take him passed a man and go for the rigging, I'd have questioned his bravery until the day he'd one of the Guineys hammering 7 shades out of him in a Leinster final and he didn't let it affect him and hurled on ,creating a score under the old Cusack stand in Croke park for Eamon Morrisey which travelled through 3 or 4 sets of Kilkenny hands from their own 21 to get the score to win it.
Shefflin isn't in the same athletic mould but he has a fantastic first touch and ability to take the ball at full pelt first time, every time. Like DJ he's great vision put beats DJ up a stick when it comes to winning his own ball more often than not. When things aren't going well for the other KK forwards, Shefflin is the one who gets on the ball and makes it happen for them, a leader from the front.
Both fine hurlers weighed down with Celtic crosses

I'd always had a grá for big Seanie McMahon of Clare, a rock where the two AI's in the 90's were founded. He was the king of centre backs in the 90's and untouchable IMO.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 28/01/2014 15:10:45    1537847

Watching hurling since the late 80's & in my opinion DJ Carey is the best hurler I have ever seen play the game.
Always a great debate/argument in any pub in Kilkenny. DJ or Shefflin??

1. DJ Carey
2. Henry Shefflin
3. Brian Whelehan
4. Tommy Walsh
5. Brian Lohan/JJ Delaney.

dcb (Kilkenny) - Posts: 26 - 28/01/2014 15:54:47    1537871

In five extra games Shefflin (561) has scored 264 more points than Carey (297). He averages 4 points per game more than Carey, statistics don't lie, Shefflin is the best forward to play hurling. Also the comment about him 'not being in the same athletic mould as Carey' is nonsense. Look at the man, he's arguably THE most athletic person to play hurling.

RebelCork (Cork) - Posts: 789 - 28/01/2014 16:45:18    1537916

An average of 4 points more a game, not much considering Henry has had about 12 years as free taker while DJ would have had half that. I wonder how Henry would have done in the Kilkenny team circa 94-98 a team Carey practically carried on his back. Then imagine how a young DJ would look had he broke into the Kilkenny team that played from 2000 to now

By the way some previous posts have written off hurlers from the 40s through to the 80s practically saying the change in the speed of the game would be too much for them. Madness brilliant hurlers like Ring Doyle Keher Cheasty Mackey etc would adapt to the game with ease

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 28/01/2014 17:55:43    1537955

The great John Doyle
No one has ever reached his record of 8 all ireland titles
And 11 national league titles
That's what makes him the greatest

thurlesblues (Tipperary) - Posts: 4475 - 28/01/2014 18:09:02    1537964

Brianmac Dublin you are talking sense

thurlesblues (Tipperary) - Posts: 4475 - 28/01/2014 18:09:56    1537967

If dj Carey is greatest according to some of ye how come jimmy Doyle kept him off the millennium team
The hurling experts don't agree with ye lads

thurlesblues (Tipperary) - Posts: 4475 - 28/01/2014 18:17:39    1537970

In fairness Brian I don't think anyone is dismissing the greats u mentioned. However title of thread is greatest ever. Up to 80 s or 90s the general concensus was that the greatest ever was either ring or Mackey. To that we can now add depending on your view point either DJ or my own choice Henry. For me its not that hurling is faster now so the greatest is playing now. For me its the level of preparation that goes in now compared to even 20 or 30 years ago. I remember reading a lk player saying that limericks prep for c ship in 50 s was 4 or 5 training sessions and that he played a league final n didn't know name of one of his team mates. Just had to be easier to star in that era than today's where no stone is left unturned in preparation of top 5 or 6 teams. Also back door makes it harder to win c ships in my view as every team gets a second chance. Also what this talk of DJ carrying men like pa neill power fennelly morrissey ( in his prime) McElroy carter Walsh Simpson the two o Connors. Think that a mile off.

disillusiondfan (Limerick) - Posts: 4279 - 28/01/2014 18:59:25    1538004

cant agree with you there brianmac. That Kilkenny team won the double 92 and 93, and it was them who carried carey in both finals. they had great hurlers, morrisey, titch phelan, the o connors, etc. etc, probably better than some of the journeymen Henry has to carry (proof: when hes not there, they lose - 2010 and last year)

flack (Dublin) - Posts: 1054 - 28/01/2014 19:29:16    1538018

True flack
Dj didn't get a puck against tipp either in 1991 off com bonnar

thurlesblues (Tipperary) - Posts: 4475 - 28/01/2014 19:38:28    1538025