GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 812

To take successful scores from 50 metres requires more than just talent, it requires factors such as the breeze to be just right. Probability would like give any player a 50% or less chance of success at that distance, which makes shooting at distance a risky tactic to rely on. From the defensive point of view, When playing a free scoring unit like Dublin, it can be an effective tactic to employ so long as you get ball to your forwards. Your forwards then need to used that ball efficiently!!

You are right about the breeze, it was a favorable factor for the armagh scores from range at the end of the first half, and for ours ate the end of the 2nd. But but but, if a team are in form, and get a good start, those are the shots that generally fly over.

The midfield was a huge problem as well, good point, and it has been a very big weakness in our team last year. The 2012 performances of our midfielders was exceptional, and to ask a repeat this year i think is too much. We did see 2 new faces introduced v armagh. I was not at the queens match, I would be interested to hear from anyone who was. I think that we will know very quickly in division 2 what our prospects are this year.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/01/2014 17:32:20    1535312

Gaa_lover
Dublin v Kerry looks the most likely AI final. Only way is down for Mayo however they might reach the AI semi final

I dont see that myself. Mayo had 4 key players carrying or returning from serious injury last year. Surely that alone indicates that they can go forward? Similarly, why wouldnt the only way be down for kerry or dublin? o'se and brosnan gone, only youngsters in to replace them, gooch another year on the clock and rode their luck against dublin in the semi at times - the only good performance they put on that year. Bernard Brogan already carrying an injury that is often hard to shake off, plus the dreaded second season syndrome, not to mention the pressure of retaining a title. I always find it interesting when people make such exclamations, it shows what nuggets of information that they choose to pay attention to, and what ones they choose to ignore. How they have spun things in their own heads if you will. Generally, you will find it usually matches pretty much word for word the opinion they had expressed in the past.
People appear to be basing their entire dismissal of mayo on the fact that they have done a lot in the last 2 years. Even though dublin have mirrored their progress, in fact they have more games played due to the leinster championship, not to mention the miles on the clocks of the kerry mainstays. Not to mention cork's record of losing 2 finals and winning one - obviously wasnt such an issue there was it?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/01/2014 17:55:14    1535323

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 9992



I dont see that myself. Mayo had 4 key players carrying or returning from serious injury last year. Surely that alone indicates that they can go forward? Similarly, why wouldnt the only way be down for kerry or dublin? o'se and brosnan gone, only youngsters in to replace them, gooch another year on the clock and rode their luck against dublin in the semi at times - the only good performance they put on that year. Bernard Brogan already carrying an injury that is often hard to shake off, plus the dreaded second season syndrome, not to mention the pressure of retaining a title. I always find it interesting when people make such exclamations, it shows what nuggets of information that they choose to pay attention to, and what ones they choose to ignore. How they have spun things in their own heads if you will. Generally, you will find it usually matches pretty much word for word the opinion they had expressed in the past.
People appear to be basing their entire dismissal of mayo on the fact that they have done a lot in the last 2 years. Even though dublin have mirrored their progress, in fact they have more games played due to the leinster championship, not to mention the miles on the clocks of the kerry mainstays. Not to mention cork's record of losing 2 finals and winning one - obviously wasnt such an issue there was it?

Of course you wouldn't see, four key players? O'Connor who managed 0-8 in the final and who else and don't named Dillion who will struggle to hold down a starting place this year or Andy Moran you had a good AI final.

Kerry are into their 2nd year with their new coach you know the chap that turned things around for Mayo, not sure how you think they rode their luck against Dublin, it was bad luck on the 2nd Dublin goal that cost them that game and they would have beaten Mayo in the final IMO.

Kerry won back to back All Irelands in 2006/07 this Dublin side are more than capable of doing likewise and will have learned a thing or two from the 2011 win.

Between U21 and senior level Dublin have won 4 AI titles how is that mirrored their progress? and Cork had certain individuals good enough to get themselves to eventually win Sam, Mayo simply don't and i'm not sure how many more finals they have to lose before the penny drops with some supporters.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3347 - 22/01/2014 18:18:25    1535338

Lockjaw/Samisforthehills

Yeah Donegal in 2011 were a lot like Dublin in 2010. Something was certainly brewing but when each got as far as a semi-final they just came up against a better team who were maybe a little further down the line, us against Cork in 2010 and yourselves against ourselves in 2011.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13711 - 22/01/2014 19:03:40    1535349

I agree with Master about people writing off Mayo just because they've been beaten in the last two finals.

I don't buy it at all. I think in many ways this year could open up for Mayo. Kerry are still dangerous but obviously but Mayo are much improved since Kerry's mauling's of them (and Kerry perhaps not as good), the Dubs trying to do back to backs (only been done once in 23 years!), hard to see where Donegal are at as their fall off from 2012 was massive and Tyrone are improving but I don't believe they are as good as Mayo at the moment.

Now it is January and a lot can change but it'd be very foolish to write off Mayo just because they've lost the last two finals.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13711 - 22/01/2014 19:12:36    1535351

MASTER Be a good little Mayo man now and approach this topic more objectively. Can the Mayo forwards improve? What more will Horan get from Doherty,Conroy,Varley,a returning Sweeney, a past it Dillon,a slower Moran, a one paced Cillian,. It depends on them because nothing but nothing new is coming through. Coen,Regan,?? no, not good enough IMO. Croke Park in August is not a gimme either. Its a new season so optimism should be high. Realistically Mayo have a chance of making a third successive final. IMO its unlikely.

Brinsley Swartz (Mayo) - Posts: 2225 - 22/01/2014 19:34:17    1535369

It is very hard to see beyond Dublin again. Kerry confidence always puts them in the frame. Mayo's psychology says to me this team can't get over the line. Donegal with a small exhausted panel playing in Division 2 cannot really be serious contenders Cork are the wild card with new management and great talent to pick from Cavan should continue their improvement this year and the McKenna final will be very interesting given Derry could have beaten Tyrone in the semi with luck and a bit more poise. Meath will be really hungry but not enough class yet.
So Dublin again is the logical choice with Tyrone bright and hopeful but Kerry the most likely to beat Dublin in the final.

cjx (Tyrone) - Posts: 270 - 22/01/2014 19:38:20    1535374

Brinsley Swartz
County: Mayo
Posts: 1747

1535369
"MASTER Be a good little Mayo man now and approach this topic more objectively. Can the Mayo forwards improve? What more will Horan get from Doherty,Conroy,Varley,a returning Sweeney, a past it Dillon,a slower Moran, a one paced Cillian,. It depends on them because nothing but nothing new is coming through. Coen,Regan,?? no, not good enough IMO. Croke Park in August is not a gimme either. Its a new season so optimism should be high. Realistically Mayo have a chance of making a third successive final. IMO its unlikely."

Coen and Regan not good enough, crickey that's a bit harsh even if it is just your own opinion. Adam Gallagher has a great chance of making the cut for senior team this year. Evan Regan is plenty good enough but there seems a bit of a clash with himself and the messiah , hopefully they get it sorted soon.

syferuseen (Roscommon) - Posts: 80 - 22/01/2014 19:40:52    1535375

22/01/2014 10:18:30
Donegalman
County: All
Posts: 1073

1535003
hardcore
County: Monaghan
Posts: 858


We will beat Tyrone on June the 15th,after that i dont know what we will do,but Tyrone are in our taughts already

I really dont think so. But u never know in ulster football..Monaghan won last year fair and square all right, but didnt show much before or after the ulster final. It will be interesting to see how they fair in the league. We will see.


Yeah we didnt play anywhere near our potenial against Antrim or Cavan,we seemed more afraid to lose than to go out and win,you most remember alot of this Monaghan team has suffered heart breaking defeats over the last 6 years........so to win and play the way they did in the Ulster Final showed that we can copete and beat the best now.

The Quater Final against Tyrone turned on 2 things.......our missed 1 on 1 by Stephen Gollogy and the rugby tackle on Conor McManus,i believe if we had scored one of those chances we would of won.

But Tyrone are not the team the were 6 years ago,they have no KILLER FORWARD (ie Canavan,O'Neill,Mulligan)the depend on Sean Cavanagh stop him and your almost there.

If We approach this game like we did last years Ulster Final,we will win,im sure this Monaghan team will end this hoodoo once and for all.

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1366 - 22/01/2014 20:00:02    1535378

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 812

1535237
aidan64
County: Kerry
Posts: 222

1535193 A lot of Donegal on here fancying themselves this year. There was a lot of hype this time last year too about Donegal and Monaghan beat them well in Ulster. Mayo then destroyed them in Croker. A lot of excuses were passed around about how tired the team were etc. Donegal wont win Ulster this year nevermind the AI. And before ye all jump on the bandwagon... No, Kerry wont win it either.

Hard to see past Dublin. Mayo has their chances V Donegal and V Dublin last year.

Donegal were badly depleted last season in fairness. I found that most Jorunalist's last season gave lazy analysis, simply saying "Donegal system found out, they are finished".

A closer Inspection would suggest otherwise.

HALF BACK LINE: Karl Lacey, Frank McGlynn, Anthony Thompson. This is what makes the Donegal "system" work, these guys are work horses, and are vital in protecting the full back line. They also provide a vital role in alternating attacking runs forward.
All 3 of these men suffered various Injuries and struggling to reach peak fitness in 2013, Donegal's full back line were left badly exposed as a result.

SWEEPER: Mark McHugh, arguably one of the best sweepers in the country. Another work horse, with a good football brain. He doesn't simply sweep, he also breaks forward with support of a member of the half back line. He missed National League matches and barely featured in Championship opener against Tyrone. He finally started against Monaghan, but exited early in first half with concussion. Another major link between backs and forwards was missing.

MIDFIELD: Neil Gallagher came on against Monaghan in the Ulster final, but it was too late. He is a vital midfield ball winner, but he struggled to get fully fit in 2013.

OVERVIEW: At full strength and full fitness, Donegal will cause any side in this country problems. Within Ulster, they remain a major obstacle to anybody with Ulster Championship ambitions.
There major headache will be adding more depth, creating competition for places and keeping their starting 15 fit.




Gary, as always you bring sense to a forum that quite simply goes pmad and that's including even my tir conaill folk, you have the nail on the head with your assement of the above, a fully fresh, hungry and fit Donegal will give anybody in this country their full of it, and i think anybody who says they havent a chance are on another planet,I would expect Donegal to reach their 2012 level this year and the soundings coming out of the camp is that of positivity and this is the year to push on again, I'm not saying we are going to win the AI, but I would say, whoever wants to win it may well have to beat them and I include Dublin in that, I think Kerry will be the team to beat myself this year as their was very positive signs in their game against Dublin last year to suggest Eamon Fitzmaurice is going the right way and with another 12 months with this group of players, I expect them to improve which could be scary for the rest of the country...... However I'm not really a big gambler and looking at the odds for the All Ireland, Donegal to me are the stand out value at 12/1 because I can assure you they are a team with purpose in 2014

ben1977 (Donegal) - Posts: 364 - 22/01/2014 20:47:05    1535401

No offense Ben but every team is a team with a purpose. Its the nature of competition!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 22/01/2014 21:20:21    1535409

I for one would not write Mayo off. I said back before Xmas that I fancy a Mayo vDonegal final I still stand by that. And Mayo could beat us What I would like to say here is don't worry about how Donegal played last year , it's how they will play this year,what sort of injuries they will have and if every thing pans out they will take a lot of stopping I know Donegal suffered a few heavy defeats last year but what about Dublin a few years ago and the beatings they got any team can come back from these beatings.
This year will tell but what I'm trying to say is I don't think Dublin are so far ahead as people make out. I think they will get beat in Leinster. Their younger players did not perform that well in the AI Final,it took the old man BB to win the final for them. I also think the black card will have a big bearing on certain games. What happened in the closing stages of the AIF won't be tolerated again. I think it will be different football this year with less pulling and checking players , especially players running on to take a return pass Anyway hope Donegal produce the goods and will have a good bet on them to win the All Ireland. Backed them at 25/1 in2012 and when they won Ulster had another 1600£ sterling at 13/2 Since Jim took over won about 20,000£sterling on Donegal

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 22/01/2014 21:31:47    1535414

You know Brinsley, I would retort, but simply reading through your post underlines the point I would make so no need. I wont be forgetting your dismissal of conroy, regan and co though, you will eat those words, or more likely, pretend you didnt say them.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 23/01/2014 14:23:26    1535651

I hope Mayo win it out of the clubs in realistic contention.

If this era passes them by they may fade and the All Ireland
title remains elusive.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 23/01/2014 14:28:30    1535658

A lot of people are saying that IF Donegal are fully fit they will challenge. And of course they will, but that is a very big IF. The fact that I (and I assume some others too) are writing them off to a certain extent is due to the fact that they have limited depth in their panel, and with the amount training teams are doing nowadays injuries are inevitable. Dublin are heads above the rest of the country because of their depth. If Brogan is injured more forwards are capable of stepping up. Take a look at Kerry, 2nd or 3rd ranked in a lot of peoples books, watch that ranking drop ferociously if Gooch got injured. It's all well and good to say if Donegal get lucky and get no injuries they'll challenge. But is that really a good enough argument to say they are genuine title contenders??

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 23/01/2014 18:02:47    1535832

But Tyrone are not the team the were 6 years ago,they have no KILLER FORWARD (ie Canavan,O'Neill,Mulligan)the depend on Sean Cavanagh stop him and your almost there.

In fairness, six years ago we won the all-ireland essentially without any of those forwards! Though obviously that was a very different team back then.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 23/01/2014 18:31:22    1535841

Dublin

DUB1 (Dublin) - Posts: 5583 - 23/01/2014 18:46:43    1535852

If Tyrone don't win the All-Ireland it certainly won't be due to lack of good scoring forwards , McCurry, R O'Neill, McAliskey, and Mattie Donnelly all look to have the ability and confidence to be top forwards. If we could ever get Coney and S O'Neill fit then we would have as good a pick as anyone. It's the full back line/ man markers that we seem to lack. Dublin favourites but the Cork clear out might work in their favour and they could be the dark horses.

MB1 (Tyrone) - Posts: 360 - 23/01/2014 19:28:26    1535873

I wouldn't write off Mayo but Dublin are the team to beat. If anyone does knock them out, they should be champions. Dublin to complete back-to-back titles.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7857 - 24/01/2014 09:57:40    1536027

aidan64
County: Kerry
Posts: 222

1535193 A lot of Donegal on here fancying themselves this year. There was a lot of hype this time last year too about Donegal and Monaghan beat them well in Ulster. Mayo then destroyed them in Croker. A lot of excuses were passed around about how tired the team were etc. Donegal wont win Ulster this year nevermind the AI. And before ye all jump on the bandwagon... No, Kerry wont win it either.



Not from Donegal there wasn't. We were favourites after beating Tyrone but there was no hype. The team was jaded and came through a two tough grinding games against Tyrone and Down. They came up against a fresher hungrier team and lost comprehensivley. There was no dobengal people screaming about back to back AI's.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1072 - 24/01/2014 10:09:51    1536036