For Dublin to win back to backs

They'll need to hope nothing happens to Cluxton / MDMc

We need the younger 2013 lads to improve by 15% - Mannion, McCaffrey, Kilkenny, Rock in particular

We need cover in midfield...

We need to inject fresh blood and replace at least 3-4 of the current 2013 squad

Costello, Hudson, Lowndes are capable of it IMO... there are a few more that could challenge

We need Connolly, Flynn, MDmc and co now in their footballing prime (26-28) to perform as such throughout the championship

Lastly we need the two Brogan brothers...

Bernard & Alan in the same team would be a massive shot in the arm

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/01/2014 13:24:55    1535114

Wouldnt pay much heed to what SamOnErrigal says MesAmis
To be fair to the Donegal lads here, the older ones like Muckross, Lockjaw, RMD, Donegalman etc have been very fair and balanced in their posts in the last few years and I wouldnt be calling out all Donegal fans on the evidence of this one :)

I know i am forgetting one of the better Donegal lads there but I cant think who it is!! Very annoying!!

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 22/01/2014 13:33:38    1535121

"Too hot to handle"? A point against Dublin and we would have stayed up. In 2012 it was only a very late rally against Armagh that saved us from going down, you know, they year we won the All-ireland?

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1072 - 22/01/2014 13:34:08    1535123

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 6815

1535072 SamOnErrigal
County: Donegal
Posts: 27

1535020
Of course Dublin were lucky against Donegal in 2011 semi final. Had C McFadden got a goal instead of a point after half time it would have been all over for Dublin Also what changed the game that day was K Lacy going off injured. For long periods of the game Dublin did not know what to do Just think of all your keekouts ,any amount of Dublin players to find, in effect all Dublin keekouts were not contested by Donegal with Dublin on possession all the time yet ye won by just 2 points The game was not good to luck at bur Donegals system was spot on for the day.

Dublin beat Donegal with 14 men deservedly in 2011.

Donegal had the Dubs in trouble alright but Dublin didn't panic and finished by far the stronger team (Donegal faded completely in the last 10 mins despite having the extra man).

Pretty much the way of it. Dublin won deservedly as they showed more to win the game. There was a sense on the way back though that we left it behind us and we could have won it had we showed a fraction more impetus. Which incidentally kicked us on in 2012.

We certainly weren't 'unlucky' and saying so is doing Dublin a disservice.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1072 - 22/01/2014 13:38:40    1535127

Ruanua liam!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 22/01/2014 13:40:40    1535128

Lockjaw
County: Donegal
Posts: 3253

1535079 Agree with MesAmis here.
Dublin would probably come out on top, but it'd be intriguing to see what kind of game plan McGuinness would employ to combat Gavin's all out attack.

Tactics are like "Paper, rock, scissors", no matter what tactical plan you play, there will be an other tactical plan that will overcome it. The problem tends to be having the players to Implement these tactics fully.

If Dublin are to be stopped in 2014,

1. Their full forward line would need to be shutdown. Meaning the team that beats them will need a formidable full back line.
2. Their half forwards would also need to be slowed down, meaning the opposing team will need an exceptional half back line/midfield with possibly half forwards helping out.
3. Dublin's full back line would then need to be exposed to the maximum, meaning a team will need a excellent full forward line.

In 2013, Tyrone beat Dublin by 1 point, lost league final by 1 point, Donegal/Dublin was draw in Ballybofey, Mayo lost by 1 point in AI final. Dublin/Kerry game showed trying to outscore Dublin was a pointless exercise if you can't defend, and Dublin pulled away near the end.

I reckon Tyrone, Donegal and Mayo are best placed to challenge Dublin in 2014.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 22/01/2014 13:40:45    1535129

GaryMc82- I agree. I thought Mayo would win the All-Ireland because they had the defence to do it but in the end they lacked too much up front which was, to be fair, most peoples worry over them.

I honestly think Donegal would beat Dublin all things being equal. It would take one hell of a performance from us to do it though and the concertation would need to be something else. You would need a day where your defence is serene and the main men up front have their shooting boots.

Samsforthehills (Donegal) - Posts: 1072 - 22/01/2014 13:44:52    1535134

The Dubs here on HS will naturally try and play things cool but fact of the matter is that Dublin are clear and deserving favourites to retain the All Ireland. Their squad is far better than anybody else's, I mean Dublin won the AI last year with only 9 of the 2011 team starting, that's brilliant strength in depth!

Now obviously any team can be caught out on the day but if all works out for the Dubs then Sam will stay put;-)

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 22/01/2014 13:54:14    1535140

Sammyboy, if both teams put out their best 15 available and both 15's played to the max of their abilities across the park.....no offence man, but Dublin would win handy.

Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 22/01/2014 13:58:14    1535143

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 810



In 2013, Tyrone beat Dublin by 1 point, lost league final by 1 point, Donegal/Dublin was draw in Ballybofey, Mayo lost by 1 point in AI final. Dublin/Kerry game showed trying to outscore Dublin was a pointless exercise if you can't defend, and Dublin pulled away near the end.

I reckon Tyrone, Donegal and Mayo are best placed to challenge Dublin in 2014.

Interesting analysis,

But I still think the team to challenge dublin this year, would be an exceptional performance by kildare in leinster, or kerry in the final. I think that kerry came closest of all to beating dublin when it mattered, in august. They were shy a couple of fresh legs, and that was the big difference between the teams on the day. I have watched the blanket defense fail miserably already this year v armagh in the mckenna cup. If you have players that can take their scores from 50 metres and get 3 or 4 points ahead, the game is over. Although we beat armagh that day, we were struggling and armagh were a rookie team.

The way to beat dublin is to not leak goals against them, and to stop them from scoring goals too. Easier said than done.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/01/2014 14:19:09    1535156

@ SamOnErrigal

Seriously man you're like the horses pulling the jaunting around Killarney with their blinkers on. It's fine to be hopeful of your own county, and support them. But jaysus have some bit of a neutral view. Dublin may have appeared lucky against Kerry in 2011 but I still think overall Dublin performed better that year and fully deserved the AI. And even luckier against Donegal?? Really?? The luckiness on their part was that Donegal hadn't learned how to attack yet. When Dublin went ahead Donegal changed from a 14 men behind the ball formation to a 13 men behind the ball formation. Dublin were far better than ye that day, if ye had won ye would have been lucky and caught the better team on the hop with abismal tactics in my view (Thank God Jimmy moved on the year after and had Donegal playing some great stuff). And last year again Dublin fully deserved their crown. Fine the final wasn't that great but Dublin were still the best team in Ireland last year.

And look you talk about injuries and this preventing Dublin from a back to back, Dublin are the most equipped county to deal with injuries. Sure Cluxton and MDMC would be big losses but I think overall they could still cope fairly well. They showed last year how they don't need to depend on Brogan anymore. Out of your 4 "contenders" the team who should worry about depth is DOnegal. Even in the McKenna cup they couldn't find enough faces to rest the likes of Murphy and McFadden.

In my opinion you're Ulster rankings are a bit off. Tyrone are on top, I wouldn't put Donegal in the same bracket at all at the minute. Sure they have some quality but their depth and performances last year are not encouraging at all. I've never seen AI champs to get beaten so comprehensively twice in the one year before. Sure Donegal are on the easier side of the draw this year, but ye will not get past Derry easily, and whoever ye meet in Ulster final will have a lot of good games under their belt. And look it's fair enough to write off Kerry and Cork as they are "rebuilding", but a team that is rebuilding got to a semi last year and gave the AI champs a good run for their money. Kerry and Cork are closer to the top than you think. And Kerry to get relegated from Div 1?? With Westmeath Derry and Kildare in the league, and with Mayo having a tough run of games I don't see that at all. Division 2 is the tough division this year, Donegal will do well to come out of that one unscathed, they won't get relegated, but they'll struggle to get promoted too.

And I don't mean to sound that negative towards Donegal, but ya have to be realistic. 2013 was a disaster for them and they haven't tried many new players in the McKenna cup. Some Donegal fans are very realistic on this site and aren't just hanging on to the successes of 2012. To be anywhere near contenders Donegal need a massive improvement. Right now I can't see how anyone can say they are contenders. They have more than enough potential to be, but on current form, just don't see it!

JMK (Kerry) - Posts: 273 - 22/01/2014 14:30:38    1535163

A lot of Donegal on here fancying themselves this year. There was a lot of hype this time last year too about Donegal and Monaghan beat them well in Ulster. Mayo then destroyed them in Croker. A lot of excuses were passed around about how tired the team were etc. Donegal wont win Ulster this year nevermind the AI. And before ye all jump on the bandwagon... No, Kerry wont win it either.

Hard to see past Dublin. Mayo has their chances V Donegal and V Dublin last year.

aidan64 (Kerry) - Posts: 665 - 22/01/2014 15:18:34    1535193

Putting back to back AL's in the 'modern' game is without doubt a very, very difficult task. Suffice to say, a lot of things need to go right for a team in their preparation for the seasion ahead.

From the outside looking in, I do feel that Dublin are best placed to do a back to back. Dublin's lack of consistency in the 2012 season could very well be the critical learning point for the team and management in how to prepare a team after wining an All Ireland. Similarly, Donegal may have leant a lot from last season too but I'll hold judgement on that until the later stages of the league.

At this present moment; In order of who I feel is most likely to win the AL in 2014:

1. Dublin
2. Kerry
3. Tyrone
4. Cork
5. Mayo
6. Donegal

DL17 (Donegal) - Posts: 86 - 22/01/2014 15:25:39    1535200

Donegalman
County: All
Posts: 1071


Interesting analysis,

But I still think the team to challenge dublin this year, would be an exceptional performance by kildare in leinster, or kerry in the final. I think that kerry came closest of all to beating dublin when it mattered, in august. They were shy a couple of fresh legs, and that was the big difference between the teams on the day. I have watched the blanket defense fail miserably already this year v armagh in the mckenna cup. If you have players that can take their scores from 50 metres and get 3 or 4 points ahead, the game is over. Although we beat armagh that day, we were struggling and armagh were a rookie team.

The way to beat dublin is to not leak goals against them, and to stop them from scoring goals too. Easier said than done.

Kildare lack key men in a few positions, and Kerry lack a defence capabable of dealing with such a full forward line. I would be more concerned with the emerging threat of Meath, than Kildare. Armagh's initial success against Donegal a couple of weeks back was down to them winning the lions share of kick out's until big Neil Gallagher was popped on, and that changed dramatically.

To take successful scores from 50 metres requires more than just talent, it requires factors such as the breeze to be just right. Probability would like give any player a 50% or less chance of success at that distance, which makes shooting at distance a risky tactic to rely on. From the defensive point of view, When playing a free scoring unit like Dublin, it can be an effective tactic to employ so long as you get ball to your forwards. Your forwards then need to used that ball efficiently!!

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 22/01/2014 15:27:46    1535204

Kerry will take this years AI

wfkerry (USA) - Posts: 933 - 22/01/2014 15:30:20    1535205

aidan64
County: Kerry
Posts: 222

1535193 A lot of Donegal on here fancying themselves this year. There was a lot of hype this time last year too about Donegal and Monaghan beat them well in Ulster. Mayo then destroyed them in Croker. A lot of excuses were passed around about how tired the team were etc. Donegal wont win Ulster this year nevermind the AI. And before ye all jump on the bandwagon... No, Kerry wont win it either.

Hard to see past Dublin. Mayo has their chances V Donegal and V Dublin last year.

Donegal were badly depleted last season in fairness. I found that most Jorunalist's last season gave lazy analysis, simply saying "Donegal system found out, they are finished".

A closer Inspection would suggest otherwise.

HALF BACK LINE: Karl Lacey, Frank McGlynn, Anthony Thompson. This is what makes the Donegal "system" work, these guys are work horses, and are vital in protecting the full back line. They also provide a vital role in alternating attacking runs forward.
All 3 of these men suffered various Injuries and struggling to reach peak fitness in 2013, Donegal's full back line were left badly exposed as a result.

SWEEPER: Mark McHugh, arguably one of the best sweepers in the country. Another work horse, with a good football brain. He doesn't simply sweep, he also breaks forward with support of a member of the half back line. He missed National League matches and barely featured in Championship opener against Tyrone. He finally started against Monaghan, but exited early in first half with concussion. Another major link between backs and forwards was missing.

MIDFIELD: Neil Gallagher came on against Monaghan in the Ulster final, but it was too late. He is a vital midfield ball winner, but he struggled to get fully fit in 2013.

OVERVIEW: At full strength and full fitness, Donegal will cause any side in this country problems. Within Ulster, they remain a major obstacle to anybody with Ulster Championship ambitions.
There major headache will be adding more depth, creating competition for places and keeping their starting 15 fit.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 22/01/2014 16:09:30    1535237

Dublin v Kerry looks the most likely AI final. Only way is down for Mayo however they might reach the AI semi final,Cork are under a lot of change some good underage talent though and will have Kerry at home, if Donegal can find their 2011/12 form they will be there or thereabouts, while another semi final would be good year for Tyrone.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3347 - 22/01/2014 16:16:05    1535244

ziggy320001
County: Meath
Posts: 60

1534557
Royaldunne

Overall we had a better team between 87-91,than 96-2001...

-----------------

For example In 87,88 Meath bet a very good Cork teams while Meath in 1996 were lucky to beat an average Mayo team and the 99 Cork team weren't a patch on their 87-90 teams. Good individuals in the Meath sides 96-2001 however without a doubt the 87-91 Meath sides were better.

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3347 - 22/01/2014 16:25:57    1535250

How to beat Dublin formula

1 have top class keeper that can kick the ball very long . Check
2 have a strong back line that are proven at keeping Dublin forwards scoreless . Check
3 have a midfield of at least 5 different options. Check
4 have the fastest half forward line in the country that can score at will . Check
5 have full forward line of natural forwards . Check
6 have free taker that can put ball over the black spot from anywhere from midfield in . Check
Finally have the we don't really care about you attitude, as we always view you lot (dubs) as inferior . Check.

That's it I'm off to paddy powers. :).
And before anyone starts taking this as gospel see smily above.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 22/01/2014 17:09:37    1535287

royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 5280

1535287
How to beat Dublin formula

1 have top class keeper that can kick the ball very long . Check
2 have a strong back line that are proven at keeping Dublin forwards scoreless . Check
3 have a midfield of at least 5 different options. Check
4 have the fastest half forward line in the country that can score at will . Check
5 have full forward line of natural forwards . Check
6 have free taker that can put ball over the black spot from anywhere from midfield in . Check
Finally have the we don't really care about you attitude, as we always view you lot (dubs) as inferior . Check.

That's it I'm off to paddy powers. :).
And before anyone starts taking this as gospel see smily above.
___________


How's that got you in the last couple of years :)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/01/2014 17:20:53    1535299