Think Peter is absolutely spot on with his comments. Poor standards of officiating should not have to be tolerated. If players put their lives on hold and make huge sacrifices for months on end, their efforts shouldn't be made futile because of a referee's call. We are sending the wrong signal to players and potential future generations. Think Louth in the Leinster final a few years ago. Think Kildare in the Leinster semi final in 2011. Think Limerick minor hurlers last year. There are so many more.

We are not learning from our mistakes, and hushing it up and sweeping it under the carpet will come back and haunt us.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 21/04/2014 11:27:16    1577928

I ask the question again. HOW MANY Cavan supporters were involved? Will some of the critics on this thread please put a figure on it. I was at the game, I watched the entire video again and I spoke to loads of people who were at the game. The most we can come up with is 2 or 3. That's out of around 4000 or more Cavan supporters. We're on the road with this team since 2010. We had some controversial decisions against us during that time but NEVER had a single incident like this. Begs the question.

As for managers speaking their mind?? It's a free country lads. Democracy means freedom of speech. Stop being so precious

RoyalBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 198 - 21/04/2014 11:30:40    1577931

I think the C

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 21/04/2014 11:50:20    1577949

I think Reilly has a fair argument in regards Dublin having played both their Leinster semi final,and final in Portlaoise.The fact that Cavan wrote to the GAA about this prior to the all ire semi final shows the genuine concern they had about this.The game should of been played in Navan with no advantage accruing to either side.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 21/04/2014 11:55:27    1577954

The Cavan manager has a time to look at the whole game and the referees performance and still comes away whinging. This wasn't a massive injustice that lost Cavan there game, he should look a little closer to home if truth be told. Still calling the McHugh incident as going against them too after he's had a chance to see it too!

Coming out having a go at the ref again a day later, as well as now seemingly having a go at where the game was played is just clucthcing at straws and is showing a major lack of class imo. I think the Dublin players/management deserve much more respect then the guff of "the big bad boys were let win" comments.

Yes bla de bla Cavan players put in a lot of effort, put their lives on hold bla bla bla - Dublin players just turned up on the day I suppose!

Compare and contrast the Cavan over reaction to that of the Cork players and management's reaction to an equally 50/50 call at the end of their match. No whinging, no crying. Just an acceptance that on the day some things went for them, some against them and the best team won.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 21/04/2014 12:06:36    1577963

21/04/2014 11:30:40
RoyalBlue2
County: Cavan
Posts: 115

1577931
I ask the question again. HOW MANY Cavan supporters were involved? Will some of the critics on this thread please put a figure on it. I was at the game, I watched the entire video again and I spoke to loads of people who were at the game. The most we can come up with is 2 or 3. That's out of around 4000 or more Cavan supporters. We're on the road with this team since 2010. We had some controversial decisions against us during that time but NEVER had a single incident like this. Begs the question.

As for managers speaking their mind?? It's a free country lads. Democracy means freedom of speech. Stop being so precious


It is hard to put numbers on it , basically because thats the nature of mayhem , regards the verbal abuse with very colourfull language Id say hundreds , but hey sticks and stones and fairly understanable , stewards stopped or held back at least 5 maybe 8 lads from getting closer to ref , in a previous post I mentioned one fella spitting over a load of heads to try land one on the ref , harder to be precise on the subs and management team , as you cant say who was going for the ref and who was playing peacemaker ?
In the context of the amount of Cavan fans your point is valid . When its kcking off its hard to take it all in , however the way game concluded I was fairly switched on as had a feeling things would get a little hairy .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 21/04/2014 12:23:22    1577966

It is nonsense to compare both free kicks that decided Saturday's semi finals. It was harsh on Cork to lose having came back with a strong second half and a peach of an equalising goal. However, the fact remains the Cork substitute fouled possession by lifting the ball off the ground with his knees. It was a foul and the referee got the decision spot on.

As for the Cavan v Dublin decision - it is hard for referees to make on the spot calls but in the context of the game the referee had a shocker. He was equally poor to both teams at different stages of the game but on the balance of play can anyone honestly say with 100% certainty that the referee would have made the exact same decision if it had have been Cavan who were chasing the win. I have my doubts and at the risk of irking the Dubs I would suggest he would not have given the free to Cavan.

The incident only highlighted the flaws that are ruining our games on a weekly basis at club level - what one referee views as a foul is perfectly ok in the eyes of another. Consistency in applying the rules is all Gaels ask for. Saturday's questionable free shows officladom have a long way to go to address this issue.

lomanaiochtabu (Tyrone) - Posts: 114 - 21/04/2014 12:27:27    1577972

Iomaniochtabu - Totally agree. Consistency from one referee to the next but also consistent decision-making by the same referee. I'm sure if I watched the replay of the u21 game, there would be numerous occasions where fouls similar to the one at the end were committed and no free awarded. Too much is at the discretion of the referee and if he isn't consistent, he's going to come in for stick.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 21/04/2014 12:35:00    1577977

lomanaiochtabu
County: Tyrone
Posts: 110
As for the Cavan v Dublin decision - it is hard for referees to make on the spot calls but in the context of the game the referee had a shocker. He was equally poor to both teams at different stages of the game but on the balance of play can anyone honestly say with 100% certainty that the referee would have made the exact same decision if it had have been Cavan who were chasing the win. I have my doubts and at the risk of irking the Dubs I would suggest he would not have given the free to Cavan.

No.

However neither can you say with 100% accuracy that he wouldn't of given the free to Cavan. You've made a completely contradictory argument.

Tin foil hat brigade out in force.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 21/04/2014 12:35:59    1577979

lomanaiochtabu
County: Tyrone
Posts: 110

1577972
It is nonsense to compare both free kicks that decided Saturday's semi finals. It was harsh on Cork to lose having came back with a strong second half and a peach of an equalising goal. However, the fact remains the Cork substitute fouled possession by lifting the ball off the ground with his knees. It was a foul and the referee got the decision spot on.

Very similar. Cavan player did impede the Dublin player, however slightly and the referee correctly applied the advantage rule as it stands. It was soft and often not given so in that case it was harsh.

Cork one very similar. It was harsh and often wouldn't have been given. But the Cork players/fans/management didn't react childishly to their credit.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13718 - 21/04/2014 12:40:09    1577984

The Cavan v Dublin match certainly has its share of talking points. Chief among them is the lack of consistency of the referee. The last free was the major call of the game and the weekend.
I watched it in real time and it is debate able If it was a free at all.
The second point for me is that for a referee to give a close in free with seconds to go in a drawn match , the foul must be blatant and clear. I don't think the free given was that clear and blatant. That is my opinion.

Another issue is the amount of time played in extra time. The referee showed little experience in not allowing more time for time wasted during the last 3 minutes of the game. It is not up to the standard expected Today for such an indiscretion.
The Cavan manager has a point in regards to the players getting and not getting the black card. The level of inconsistency is baffling.

There is little doubt that the smaller counties are beginning to be more vocal about injustices as they see them in big matches against big counties.
The GAA has never addressed this issue. It has never spoken out against this view. Instead t has dealt with the issue by causing the managers etc of bringing the game into disrepute.
There is now the danger that the GAA will be seen as an organisation that caters for 2 distinct groups, the strong and the weak and this situation will continue unless steps are taken.

The major step to be taken is for referees to be fair and seen to be fair in their application of the rules. Until this happens consistently then the GaA will continue to be accused of not being fair n it's officiating of big games.

And there are plenty of examples of where the small county suffers. Ask any small county!

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 21/04/2014 13:11:20    1578003

Cavan' s objection to the location was sent prior to the game, so sour grapes does not come into it.
The GAA sets it own agendas, and come hell or high water they force it through. They wanted the game in portlaoise so that TG4 was able to be able to do a double header. After all with the Sky deal TG4 were the ones who were missing out, portlaoise was an olive branch to theTG4 TV company, and had nothing to do with fairness for the 4 teams involved.
The GAA makes their rules and break them when they want.
4 years ago they forced Cavan to play an all- Ireland semi final 3 days after playing in an ulster final, citing the 13 day ( before a final rule) as the reason why the game had to go ahead, however when the chance came to move the game forward to play the final 12 days later to form a double header with the Dublin Kilkenny hurling league final, they conveniently forgot their own rule.
Meath objected to the game in portlaoise before they had to pay the Leinster final, and it was pushed through? Cavan objected before the all-Ireland semi final and where told "hard luck" and again it was pushed through.
When decisions are being made at the highest level that are based on the agendas that are nothing to do with the needs of the teams involved, then the game itself will be the bigger loser.
The Results are the results, but when the actions of the GAA, call into question it's integrity as an organisation then we must point the finger and ak for explanations.
I was always told the the GAA was set with the mission to provide Irish games for Irish boys and girls, however, if you look at the organisation now, I doubt that it is succeeding in that mission.

notimpressed (UK) - Posts: 98 - 21/04/2014 13:39:41    1578018

Appears as if my previous post didn't get past the administrator,
Let me put it in summary;
As an organisation the GAA has failed to live up to its own mission statement when it was first founded, to provide Irish games for Irish boys and girls.
It is a hierarchical super-structure that has increasingly become concerned less with the good of the game, and the people who play it, and more about the potential of the games to generate revenue.
Decisions are made to favour outside interests, (sky deal, playing double headers in the same location to increase ticket prices and allow TG4 to send one crew to cover both games, bit of an olive branch to appease them after giving TV rights to sky) and less about the needs of the players who play the game.
They apply their rules rigidly when it suits, and break them when it I doesn't.
4 years ago Cavan forced to play an all Ireland semi final, three days after winning an ulster final, because of the GAA (13 day final rule ) the game had to be played on the saturday because the final had already been fixed and it was not to be moved. Yet they did moved the final to match up with the Dublin Kilkenny legue final, as the double header in Croke park was a potential money spinner.
We the grass roots members will continue to become more and more disenfranchised from the "powers that be" when their decisions continue to appear to be based on agendas that do not put the everyday members and players at their core.

notimpressed (UK) - Posts: 98 - 21/04/2014 14:10:30    1578035

notimpressed
County: UK
Posts: 15

Excellent post. Some very chilling and sobering reading, yet all factual. The GAA is as a crossroads as an association. Cothrom na Féinne? Hmmmm.....

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 21/04/2014 14:19:05    1578042

By small I assume you mean weaker counties? by definition weaker counties lose more often than not and often times therefore want to find excuses other than the resources at their disposal for their failure. If you win you go home happy and forget about the referee, for a lot of people if they lose, it has to be someones fault other than their own.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1806 - 21/04/2014 15:09:39    1578060

A disputed free becomes the basis for philosophical ruminations on the nature of the GAA!

Supporters from all counties can point to decisions which seemed unfairly to turn games. I could write a book of them from a Dublin perspective. Sure probably the two of the most iconic images in the history of Dublin football - the Sheehy goal in 1978, and Keith Barr's missed penalty before the Foley goal in the third replay in 1991 - were poor referring decisions. First should have been free out and penalty should have been retaken!

Did Dublin whinge about those decisions at the time? No. Took them on the chin as part of the swings and roundabouts of sport. Real reasons Dublin lost those games were two better teams outfought them.

Same happened on Saturday. Cavan parked the bus and attempted to defend a three point lead for 30 minutes in which they failed to score. That's why they lost. Not because the Illuminati of Bavaria wanted them to. If you are going to invite a team to lay siege to you you can factor n that you run a higher risk than normal of conceding frees.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 21/04/2014 15:40:16    1578073

It is very strange to see the bitterness of some Cavan posters to Roscommon. One even said that Cork were robbed sure Ros did get a couple of handy frees and our fullback should have got a black card with a few mins to go but Cork got some handy frees as well could have got a couple of black cards in the third quarter, in the fourth quarter Cork got 3 key decisions in there favour the Cork back nailed Ronan Daly with a elbow in the stomach could have been red, For corks second goal the forward took seven steps took a solo, took another 7 steps and banged it in the net, for the third goal the foul happened between the 13 and 21 metre line, yet by the time he took it he must have been on the penalty spot, the last free for ros was probably a free for a push on Smith before the Cork back picked it straight of the ground.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 21/04/2014 15:59:55    1578081

hurlingdub
County: Dublin
Posts: 5954

Forget about the game and the disputed free for a second, and perhaps take time to address the issues raised in the post.

Ned_Stormcrow (Cavan) - Posts: 1071 - 21/04/2014 16:12:40    1578084

An awful lot of genuine supporters from all counties have never even heard of Hoganstand.com so let's not take ourselves too seriously about these matches. There are other important issues and I agree with the Carlow and UK posters; they raise issues that are as important as the games themselves. Big decisions are being made to suit all kinds of interests except those of supporters, especially the travelling supporters and in some cases the players too. I'm thinking of dragging Meath and Dublin supporters to Portlaoise, Donegal supporters to Armagh for the Ulster final, forcing teams to play big matches within 3 days of the previous one etc. The Under-21 competition itself is almost treated like an inconvenience. The GAA will break their own rules any time it suits them and dump their decision on the rest of us. Let any of us, whether supporters, players or mentors try breaking rules and we'll get the heavy fist treatment every time. It's time to make a stand on this before Sky and others are allowed to re-write the rules for us.

RoyalBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 198 - 21/04/2014 16:47:19    1578091

Can someone explain to me why the ref would favour Dublin ? I honestly don't get why he would. I can understand Cavan supporters being annoyed but it's rubbish saying he favoured Dublin, he called it as he saw it

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 21/04/2014 16:57:58    1578094